Charles Watkins: New WR QC Asst | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com
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Charles Watkins: New WR QC Asst

DAs do that when cases are weak. You probably still think the Duke lacrosse players raped the stripper, because she said so. I spent 25 years dealing with he said, she said and understanding that allegations do not necessarily equal truth.
I would hate to be one of your kids who did something wrong: you seem to not be able to understand or appreciate that people can learn and grow. Part of the goals of the criminal justice system is rehabilitation. If we don’t believe in that, why not just lock every transgressor up for life.
Duke lax isn't a great example for you to use here.

I didn't say the guy should be locked up for life. I'm just not happy that he is coaching our football team. It's a very questionable hire. Would you be friends with someone that you knew assaulted a woman? Do you think that's a good role model for impressionable young men?

Also, the goal of the criminal justice system in this country is profit, not rehabilitation.
 
Duke lax isn't a great example for you to use here.

I didn't say the guy should be locked up for life. I'm just not happy that he is coaching our football team. It's a very questionable hire. Would you be friends with someone that you knew assaulted a woman? Do you think that's a good role model for impressionable young men?

Also, the goal of the criminal justice system in this country is profit, not rehabilitation.
He would be a great role model assuming he has no other incidents of abuse, which shows that someone can make a big mistake years ago and still work their way back to where they are viable member of society. You don't glorify the transgression you glorify the fact that he has improved himself as a human being.

I still have friends that fall into this category. Serving in the military you see this often unfortunately (both men and women). People either take the road to improve or continue down the road of transgressions. I don't throw away friendships based on one incident. I may back off and see what happens next but I am not going to make a snap judgment/decision based on a single incident.
 
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Duke lax isn't a great example for you to use here.

I didn't say the guy should be locked up for life. I'm just not happy that he is coaching our football team. It's a very questionable hire. Would you be friends with someone that you knew assaulted a woman? Do you think that's a good role model for impressionable young men?

Also, the goal of the criminal justice system in this country is profit, not rehabilitation.
He may actually be an excellent example for impressionable young men. Someone that screwed up, accepted accountability, and then changed the type of person they are is often someone that a young guy that may have a similar background and be prone to make the same mistake would listen to.

If he's a current scumbag, no I don't want him associated with SU. If it was an isolated incident that he genuinely felt sorry about and learned from 13 years ago, I think it's ok to remove the scarlett letter.

I found it interesting that when you quoted the article you left out this part, "The alleged victim’s wishes are a lot of times taken into account by the district attorney in working out some resolution of the case.”
 
"The Durham district attorney agreed to defer prosecution of Watkins for assault on a female—a class A1 misdemeanor in the state of North Carolina. Watkins agreed to 75 hours of community service and six months probation. The state dismissed the case Oct. 31, 2012 and it is set to be expunged from Watkins’ record in early 2013."

They deferred prosecution, he still had 75 hours of community service and six months probation.

The lengths some of you will go to defend questionable hires within this football program...

I think it’s weird the lengths *you* go to to scrutinize every one of these “questionable” hires/transfers, as if you’re the one responsible for it. It’s not my job to do background checks, if the staff and university think the man is worth a second chance so be it.

Especially when the offense was well over a decade ago.

I think it’s weird that every time you bring it up you throw out “DART” like it’s some kind of gotcha.
 

Coach Watkins,​

IMG_3869.jpeg
 
Duke lax isn't a great example for you to use here.

I didn't say the guy should be locked up for life. I'm just not happy that he is coaching our football team. It's a very questionable hire. Would you be friends with someone that you knew assaulted a woman? Do you think that's a good role model for impressionable young men?

Also, the goal of the criminal justice system in this country is profit, not rehabilitation.

While I don’t completely disagree with you. A documentary I show in one of my courses (this part is just one persons view and not the theme of the whole video) but made me think of criminals a little differently than I had before. Essentially he says, a person who steals is not just a thief, a person who has lied isn’t just a liar. We as people are much more than our worst actions. This made me question and change some of my views years ago. Maybe it does for someone else, in the very least maybe it gets people to at least think about the idea differently even if they end up back at the same place. Which is essentially what I tell my students with any topic.

* I agree with this except in cases of rape, child abuse and murder - those actions I have no empathy or care about context.
 
He may actually be an excellent example for impressionable young men. Someone that screwed up, accepted accountability, and then changed the type of person they are is often someone that a young guy that may have a similar background and be prone to make the same mistake would listen to.

If he's a current scumbag, no I don't want him associated with SU. If it was an isolated incident that he genuinely felt sorry about and learned from 13 years ago, I think it's ok to remove the scarlett letter.

I found it interesting that when you quoted the article you left out this part, "The alleged victim’s wishes are a lot of times taken into account by the district attorney in working out some resolution of the case.”
That’s where my head went as well - who better to work with young people than someone who almost ruined their life (and that of some other young person) and took the opportunity to turn things around? It’s a powerful message delivered by someone who lived it.

I’ll give HCFB the benefit of the doubt on character judgment. Spirituality, faith, forgiveness - those are things we’ve heard Fran speak of in interviews. I am not a religious person but I see the moral and practical value in those things.
 
Duke lax isn't a great example for you to use here.

I didn't say the guy should be locked up for life. I'm just not happy that he is coaching our football team. It's a very questionable hire. Would you be friends with someone that you knew assaulted a woman? Do you think that's a good role model for impressionable young men?
Definitely something for us to be aware of, especially since a lot of us here (certainly not all) are more invested than the rest of the fanbase in the growth and development of the players outside of football. I don't think any of Fran's redemption cases have blown up in his face at this point.

Also, the goal of the criminal justice system in this country is profit, not rehabilitation.
Spot on.
 
While I don’t completely disagree with you. A documentary I show in one of my courses (this part is just one persons view and not the theme of the whole video) but made me think of criminals a little differently than I had before. Essentially he says, a person who steals is not just a thief, a person who has lied isn’t just a liar. We as people are much more than our worst actions. This made me question and change some of my views years ago. Maybe it does for someone else, in the very least maybe it gets people to at least think about the idea differently even if they end up back at the same place. Which is essentially what I tell my students with any topic.

* I agree with this except in cases of rape, child abuse and murder - those actions I have no empathy or care about context.
I would add cruelty to animals. :mad:
 
This would only be a problem if Fran did not know or care about the arrest. Does anyone really think that is the case? Nobody should be barred from any kind of career for something they did at 20 years old, especially if they avoid any further trouble with the law and take clear steps to turn their life around, which he clearly seems to have done. I trust that Fran took everything in his past into account when making the hire. That should be enough for all of us. I am surprised Bnoro isn't complaining about Devendorf's continued involvement in cuse basketball.
 
He may actually be an excellent example for impressionable young men. Someone that screwed up, accepted accountability, and then changed the type of person they are is often someone that a young guy that may have a similar background and be prone to make the same mistake would listen to.

If he's a current scumbag, no I don't want him associated with SU. If it was an isolated incident that he genuinely felt sorry about and learned from 13 years ago, I think it's ok to remove the scarlett letter.

I found it interesting that when you quoted the article you left out this part, "The alleged victim’s wishes are a lot of times taken into account by the district attorney in working out some resolution of the case.”
I don't know the whole story, have only browsed what has been linked here, but the 'A' from DART does seem to have come into play in the aftermath of the event (assuming he did in fact do it, which seems likely, but again I have not read everything).
 
This would only be a problem if Fran did not know or care about the arrest. Does anyone really think that is the case? Nobody should be barred from any kind of career for something they did at 20 years old, especially if they avoid any further trouble with the law and take clear steps to turn their life around, which he clearly seems to have done. I trust that Fran took everything in his past into account when making the hire. That should be enough for all of us. I am surprised Bnoro isn't complaining about Devendorf's continued involvement in cuse basketball.
Eric isn't employed by the university.
 
I think it’s weird the lengths *you* go to to scrutinize every one of these “questionable” hires/transfers, as if you’re the one responsible for it. It’s not my job to do background checks, if the staff and university think the man is worth a second chance so be it.

Especially when the offense was well over a decade ago.

I think it’s weird that every time you bring it up you throw out “DART” like it’s some kind of gotcha.
I think it's weird that people think every questionable character is magically healed because they've transferred under Fran Brown.

Some people change, sure. But I was raised to know you don't abuse women. I have no tolerance for those that do so, and that's the way I am. I'm surprised that calling out questionable behavior gets such a harsh response, when not one person here personally knows this man and his character.
 
I think it's weird that people think every questionable character is magically healed because they've transferred under Fran Brown.

Some people change, sure. But I was raised to know you don't abuse women. I have no tolerance for those that do so, and that's the way I am. I'm surprised that calling out questionable behavior gets such a harsh response, when not one person here personally knows this man and his character.
I do understand the reservation about being open to second/last chance u opportunities the program has been extending to players and coaches. I simply don’t go about my day thinking Fran Brown is trying to sabotage the program with every move he makes when he time and time again says nothing is bigger than the S in every move he makes. So it’s a matter of trust, I trust the man. I believe Fran would not bring in a man to be around his children and players that was dangerous and a risk. We are fans, it’s not our job to do the HR work of the hires made by the program. Unless there is a whistleblower inside the program who calls out wrongdoings, I’m not really sure my very positive view of the program Fran is running right now and many fans very positive view of the program Fran is running right now is going to change.
 
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Duke lax isn't a great example for you to use here.

I didn't say the guy should be locked up for life. I'm just not happy that he is coaching our football team. It's a very questionable hire. Would you be friends with someone that you knew assaulted a woman? Do you think that's a good role model for impressionable young men?

Also, the goal of the criminal justice system in this country is profit, not rehabilitation.
Tell that to the deputy and officer who lost their life last year. I think they would disagree they were doing it for profit.
 
Tell that to the deputy and officer who lost their life last year. I think they would disagree they were doing it for profit.
That sounds tragic, but the deputy and officer didn’t own the prison and are just cogs in the profit machine. Saying our prison system is geared towards profit doesn’t mean disparaging all that work within that system, or minimizing their efforts or sacrifice.
 
While I oppose the abuse of others I don't withhold second chances. How many of us are still the same goofball teens or frat-boys or sorority-girls from college? How many bad decisions did you make in your life?

We all have thresholds we were taught to never cross. This guy crossed the threshold, atoned for the error of his ways and lives on the right side of the threshold for 13 years. Whether each of accepts this or holds it against him is our own decision. So be it. However, is it worthy of a full discussion on the football board or should it head over to the "No Holds Barred" board?

I was raised like bnoro to never assault a girl or woman, I also raised to give people a chance if they admitted their errors and changed their ways. Where exactly should lines be drawn? Each of us must make that call individually. I think we all make errors in both directions drawing lines and need to re-think or re-calibrate those lines from time to time. I respect bnoro's position as he has a right to think as he wishes. I am in the camp of people can change. I support the hire in good faith that HCFB, HR and the AD staff have done their jobs.

HCFB has made a decision, HR has performed their due diligence and the new assistant WR coach is in the fold. Let's make the best of it and hold him accountable should he stupidly assault someone else.
 

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