Class Ranking

[CuseLegacy]

If y'all want to have these type of discussions don't do it in a commits thread...start a new one.
Otherwise you will make someone who hasn't had enough coffee yet cranky.

 

[CA Monk]

If y'all want to have these type of discussions don't do it in a commits thread...start a new one.
Otherwise you will make someone who hasn't had enough coffee yet cranky.

What she said.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Well apparently Dino can turn below average classes into a 9-3 team, so I’m excited to see what he can do with average or above average ones.

Or, beyond the top few guys, recruiting rankings are BS

 

[Finwad32]

Taxes and death... and recruiting rankings.

 

[texascpa]

Taxes and death... and recruiting rankings.

and uniforms

 

[Cuse House]

Rankings matter to a degree. This year they matter less due to the size of the class we are bringing in. That’s the main issue here that some do not seem to grasp. A small class in or near the the top 50 with 4-5 great players is a very respectable class. We added key pieces to our D for years to come. A D that already has some very promising young talent. On offense we are stocked at the skill positions. Need some OL commits but we aren’t done, and I expect Dino to address this. Next year or two I expect to see us in the top 30 with some big time offensive commits. We win again next year, which I expect us to do, look out. Trust the process and our proven talent evaluators!

 

[texascpa]

Rankings matter to a degree. This year they matter less due to the size of the class we are bringing in. That’s the main issue here that some do not seem to grasp. A small class in or near the the top 50 with 4-5 great players is a very respectable class. We added key pieces to our D for years to come. A D that already has some very promising young talent. On offense we are stocked at the skill positions. Need some OL commits but we aren’t done, and I expect Dino to address this. Next year or two I expect to see us in the top 30 with some big time offensive commits. We win again next year, which I expect us to do, look out. Trust the process and our proven talent evaluators!

I'm not sure how big our class will be next year, though. I believe we only have 18 seniors next year, so that would mean we would have 7 others leave early or transfer.

 

[Cuse House]

I'm not sure how big our class will be next year, though. I believe we only have 18 seniors next year, so that would mean we would have 7 others leave early or transfer.

True, we will have to see what the attrition looks like. We are very deep at some positions. I think we are at the point where some guys will get recruited over. We are upping the talent level.

 

[RF2044]

I know this is very unpopular, but I think this class at this point is a little better than Shafer's. We have a few top guys who have good other lists and a bunch with question marks. Time will tell. Get a couple of quality DL and I'd feel different. Still think Babers is an excellent coach and am hopeful next year we see a big upgrade.

I'll respectfully disagree -- I don't think that the data comes anywhere close to bearing that out.

I believe that this is shaping up to be a terrific class, and the rating services are only now starting to catch on.

Agree 100% that we need to stock up on DL -- which should be a priority from here on out. Even so, the lack of them doesn't support your position -- this is a good class.

 

[Finwad32]

I'll respectfully disagree -- I don't think that the data comes anywhere close to bearing that out.

I believe that this is shaping up to be a terrific class, and the rating services are only now starting to catch on.

Agree 100% that we need to stock up on DL -- which should be a priority from here on out. Even so, the lack of them doesn't support your position -- this is a good class.

Agreed. Two factors need to be considered.

1) SS’s two classes ranked in the 50’s had 25 & 29 commitments, respectfully. Significantly weights the ranking.

2) this is a bit of an unknown for the current class, but, there were qualifying issues with every one of Shafe’s classes.

I think as a whole, we are putting together much stronger classes now than we have in a very long time.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Just get the kids here, get them under Dino and the S&C program and we will be just fine, I am not even remotely worried about recruiting rankings and as I have said 10,000 times Syracuse will never be off the charts with their rankings. Syracuse was, is and always will be a developmental program.

We will be a roster full of 3 star guys, coached up and ready to compete. That's Syracuse football. Some will have bigger BCS offers and some won't. Ill judge the recruiting on the field and many won't be heard from for a year or two. I also think the improved specials can somewhat be attributed to the upgrade in athleticism.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

this is a bit of an unknown for the current class, but, there were qualifying issues with every one of Shafe’s classes.

For the sake of saying it, the new non-qual rules have certainly changed how we (and all teams) approach qualifying issues.

That said, there hasn't proven under Babers thus far to be a correlation between best recruits and qualifying issues, so that's a huge improvement.

 

[jmcclure33]

I think it’s pretty easy to tell who had the better recruiting classes when you just watch our DBs keeping up with acc receivers downfield instead of getting blown by like they did in years past. It just shows the difference in athletes, we actually look like we belong out there.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I think it’s pretty easy to tell who had the better recruiting classes when you just watch our DBs keeping up with acc receivers downfield instead of getting blown by like they did in years past. It just shows the difference in athletes, we actually look like we belong out there.

Exactly. Sure there is another jump to consistently compete with top 10 programs but the progress on the recruiting trail is visible in the depth and the results on the field. I just don't understand the hand wringing. Those looking for top 20 classes will always be disappointed. Syracuse needs a dome reno and a face lift on the student housing.

 

[SmilinBob]

I'd venture a guess that Ward is a very happy man. With the LB's and DB's coming and redshirted I could see some smart DL guys looking at this and thinking ..."Wow, coverage sacks are quite possible to add to my beat my man ones."

 

[corpjet]

I'd venture a guess that Ward is a very happy man. With the LB's and DB's coming and redshirted I could see some smart DL guys looking at this and thinking ..."Wow, coverage sacks are quite possible to add to my beat my man ones."

He's like my 6 year old son on Christmas, on system overload from all the new toys he has to play with!

 

[PhatOrange]

At the current recruit rankings trajectory if we doubled the size of the class to 28 kids like Shafer, this class would be ranked #17 ahead of Ohio State.

Adding 6 more kids at the lowest rvls three star tier (5.5) - a 20 kid class - the ranking would bump to #38. That doesn't account for anyone else moving up or down, but rvls is heavily weighted towards numbers because they have a point system. The more kids, the more points, the higher the ranking.

It comes down to a few things for me (from the outside looking in).
1) Who offered,
2) how were they evaluated - in person, what camps, what combines, games, did offers come from those performances,
3) level of competition - what class size school, traditional football hotbed,
4) measurable's
5) awards/recognition - Team Captain, All State, ALL Star Games, State Playoff teams etc......

...what we don't see and can't rate is a kid's character. That would rank very high on my list. How does he face adversity, how is he viewed by his teachers and is he coachable?

 

[SmilinBob]

At the current recruit rankings trajectory if we doubled the size of the class to 28 kids like Shafer, this class would be ranked #17 ahead of Ohio State.

Adding 6 more kids at the lowest rvls three star tier (5.5) - a 20 kid class - the ranking would bump to #38. That doesn't account for anyone else moving up or down, but rvls is heavily weighted towards numbers because they have a point system. The more kids, the more points, the higher the ranking.

It comes down to a few things for me (from the outside looking in).
1) Who offered,
2) how were they evaluated - what camps, what combines, did offers come from those performances,
3) level of competition - what class size school, traditional football hotbed,
4) measurable's
5) awards/recognition - Team Captain, All State, ALL Star Games, State Playoff teams etc...

...what we don't see and can't rate is a kid's character. That would rank very high on my list. How does he face adversity, how is he viewed by his teachers and is he coachable?

Good points and one thing I'd add is do they fill a void position wise starting/specials/Depth.

 

[sdhall01]

For the sake of saying it, the new non-qual rules have certainly changed how we (and all teams) approach qualifying issues.

That said, there hasn't proven under Babers thus far to be a correlation between best recruits and qualifying issues, so that's a huge improvement.

Hell, only one commit was a non-qual last year, and he’s joining us in January.

 

[Rocco]

I'll say I hope the guys with no other p5 offers are sleepers.

Just to be clear, "reported" offers is an inexact science. There's hardly any accuracy with them as most big P5 schools aim at the diamonds in the rough early in the cycle, then work their way down the list late in the cycle. Kids with no other big offers usually end up with 2-5 once it's all said and done. That's the nature of recruiting, yet it's often unreported. Our commits are constantly attempted to be picked off every year.

Furthermore, these defensive commits are certainly above average, possibly even saying very good. The staff had limited numbers to work with, but there is still room for 5-6 if they can snag them. Our recruiting process is fairly in-depth and Edinger has a big say in a kid, too. It's a collaborative effort.

Don't kid yourself. We're fine this cycle and it's only going to get better over the next few weeks/months. Expect to see some big in-home visits with many members of the coaching staff present. Count on it. These guys are feeding off the momentum and it's starting to clearly show.

 

[RF2044]

Just to be clear, "reported" offers is an inexact science. There's hardly any accuracy with them as most big P5 schools aim at the diamonds in the rough early in the cycle, then work their way down the list late in the cycle. Kids with no other big offers usually end up with 2-5 once it's all said and done. That's the nature of recruiting, yet it's often unreported. Our commits are constantly attempted to be picked off every year.

Furthermore, these defensive commits are certainly above average, possibly even saying very good. The staff had limited numbers to work with, but there is still room for 5-6 if they can snag them. Our recruiting process is fairly in-depth and Edinger has a big say in a kid, too. It's a collaborative effort.

Don't kid yourself. We're fine this cycle and it's only going to get better over the next few weeks/months. Expect to see some big in-home visits with many members of the coaching staff present. Count on it. These guys are feeding off the momentum and it's starting to clearly show.

Exciting stuff!

 

[orangepassion]

I think it’s pretty easy to tell who had the better recruiting classes when you just watch our DBs keeping up with acc receivers downfield instead of getting blown by like they did in years past. It just shows the difference in athletes, we actually look like we belong out there.

Our best DB this year is Fredrick, though think Trill is and will be a stud.

 

[orangepassion]

Rankings matter to a degree. This year they matter less due to the size of the class we are bringing in. That’s the main issue here that some do not seem to grasp. A small class in or near the the top 50 with 4-5 great players is a very respectable class. We added key pieces to our D for years to come. A D that already has some very promising young talent. On offense we are stocked at the skill positions. Need some OL commits but we aren’t done, and I expect Dino to address this. Next year or two I expect to see us in the top 30 with some big time offensive commits. We win again next year, which I expect us to do, look out. Trust the process and our proven talent evaluators!

I never said it was a bad class, though I believe it was below average for a P5 team prior to the past week. As I originally stated, I think it's a decent class. I just don't agree with those who think it's a terrific class. I also have a lot of faith in the staff coaching them up.
Truthfully, I don't even care about the rankings-Just mentioned them b/c someone quoted from there. What matters to me is how many guys are we winning head-to-head battles against P5 schools. When majority of our class is in that category, I'll feel it's a terrific class. I agree we're probably not ever bringing in top 10 classes. Think we do have potential to bring in top 25 classes if we have another good year or two.
Would love for us to bring in another top recruiter or two to pair with Monroe and Ferri to capitalize on our success.

 

[orangepassion]

Your posts are not going to age well.

I hope so.

 

[OrangeAl]

NONE of those guys were highly rated recruits. NONE of them.
Look at their ratings of those classes. WOOF.

Just because several of those guys worked out extremely well for us as players, doesn't change the fact that we weren't beating out Bama for their services.
(and until this season, NONE of them were winners in college)

Andre Cisco was a 3* guy. But with a legit offer sheet.
Dino can find the gems too.

Bringing it back to Greenwood - he'd be a top 2-3 guy in ANY of Shafer's classes.
He's 7th in this class.
Which is GREAT. We need talented depth, and more major talent at the top of our classes.
And Dino & crew are getting it.


Check THIS out:

Syracuse All Time Football Recruits

Shafer's "best" recruit EVER was KJ Williams.
Man, what a great get that dude was for us.

Then look to see how many of these top guys Dino has brought in, starting with Trill & TD, and including SEVERAL of the guys in this year's class.

Looking at the top-rated recruits we've signed over the years leads to this conclusion:
There's a big difference between getting blue-chip commitments and getting big-time contributors at the college level.