Class Ranking

[Roger N]

At the current recruit rankings trajectory if we doubled the size of the class to 28 kids like Shafer, this class would be ranked #17 ahead of Ohio State.

Adding 6 more kids at the lowest rvls three star tier (5.5) - a 20 kid class - the ranking would bump to #38. That doesn't account for anyone else moving up or down, but rvls is heavily weighted towards numbers because they have a point system. The more kids, the more points, the higher the ranking.

It comes down to a few things for me (from the outside looking in).
1) Who offered,
2) how were they evaluated - in person, what camps, what combines, games, did offers come from those performances,
3) level of competition - what class size school, traditional football hotbed,
4) measurable's
5) awards/recognition - Team Captain, All State, ALL Star Games, State Playoff teams etc...

...what we don't see and can't rate is a kid's character. That would rank very high on my list. How does he face adversity, how is he viewed by his teachers and is he coachable?

Regarding class rankings, I always judge rankings by the average rating of each recruit. Last years class ranking was hurt by the loss of Samson and and Jordon not qualifying. Currently we have a few undervalued recruits. I love the recent defensive recruits.

 

[baggerbob]

This doesn't include 3 of the best players for next year. Adams, Jackson, and Jordan.

 

[Roger N]

This doesn't include 3 of the best players for next year. Adams, Jackson, and Jordan.

Absolutely!

 

[money3189]

This class went from being one of the worse we had to potentially being one of the best in terms of numbers. We are limited in slots. I wish we had 25 slots to fill. We would be top 30 but next year will be different. I looked at Purdue's class this year. They built off the success they had. We will do the same. 2020 class will be our best.

 

[money3189]

At the current recruit rankings trajectory if we doubled the size of the class to 28 kids like Shafer, this class would be ranked #17 ahead of Ohio State.

Adding 6 more kids at the lowest rvls three star tier (5.5) - a 20 kid class - the ranking would bump to #38. That doesn't account for anyone else moving up or down, but rvls is heavily weighted towards numbers because they have a point system. The more kids, the more points, the higher the ranking.

It comes down to a few things for me (from the outside looking in).
1) Who offered,
2) how were they evaluated - in person, what camps, what combines, games, did offers come from those performances,
3) level of competition - what class size school, traditional football hotbed,
4) measurable's
5) awards/recognition - Team Captain, All State, ALL Star Games, State Playoff teams etc...

...what we don't see and can't rate is a kid's character. That would rank very high on my list. How does he face adversity, how is he viewed by his teachers and is he coachable?

yezzir

 

[money3189]

I never said it was a bad class, though I believe it was below average for a P5 team prior to the past week. As I originally stated, I think it's a decent class. I just don't agree with those who think it's a terrific class. I also have a lot of faith in the staff coaching them up.
Truthfully, I don't even care about the rankings-Just mentioned them b/c someone quoted from there. What matters to me is how many guys are we winning head-to-head battles against P5 schools. When majority of our class is in that category, I'll feel it's a terrific class. I agree we're probably not ever bringing in top 10 classes. Think we do have potential to bring in top 25 classes if we have another good year or two.
Would love for us to bring in another top recruiter or two to pair with Monroe and Ferri to capitalize on our success.

All it really comes down to.

 

[orangepassion]

All it really comes down to.

Which part?

 

[rackman18]

I never said it was a bad class, though I believe it was below average for a P5 team prior to the past week. As I originally stated, I think it's a decent class. I just don't agree with those who think it's a terrific class. I also have a lot of faith in the staff coaching them up.
Truthfully, I don't even care about the rankings-Just mentioned them b/c someone quoted from there. What matters to me is how many guys are we winning head-to-head battles against P5 schools. When majority of our class is in that category, I'll feel it's a terrific class. I agree we're probably not ever bringing in top 10 classes. Think we do have potential to bring in top 25 classes if we have another good year or two.
Would love for us to bring in another top recruiter or two to pair with Monroe and Ferri to capitalize on our success.

And what 2 recruiters would you suggest?

 

[money3189]

Which part?

Sorry, " What matters to me is how many guys are we winning head-to-head battles against P5 schools"

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

This class went from being one of the worse we had to potentially being one of the best in terms of numbers. We are limited in slots. I wish we had 25 slots to fill. We would be top 30 but next year will be different. I looked at Purdue's class this year. They built off the success they had. We will do the same. 2020 class will be our best.

We have at least 23 to fill next year, so another good year and !?!?

 

[orangepassion]

And what 2 recruiters would you suggest?

There are guys with recruiting reputations and/or contacts in relevant recruiting areas that you'd think would have interest in joining the up and coming Dino train. People in the industry would know better than me. Chris Beatty could be available again?

 

[NineOneSeven]

What blows my mind is how many players are on a d1 team... like 90? Insane. 15 wideouts next year? What the hell? I guess I never really bothered to look at the sidelines enough during games.

 

[PhatOrange]

There are guys with recruiting reputations and/or contacts in relevant recruiting areas that you'd think would have interest in joining the up and coming Dino train. People in the industry would know better than me. Chris Beatty could be available again?

if any current coaches leave than yeah, i agree. Dino has proven capable of plugging coaching holes. Such as Reno who wasn't part of the original staff. Martin and Stanard are TBD though you still need good football coaches first and foremost.

 

[PAcuse]

What blows my mind is how many players are on a d1 team... like 90? Insane. 15 wideouts next year? What the hell? I guess I never really bothered to look at the sidelines enough during games.

With walk ons it's over 100 on teams. Most Babers teams have had 15-18 WRs on them.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

There are guys with recruiting reputations and/or contacts in relevant recruiting areas that you'd think would have interest in joining the up and coming Dino train. People in the industry would know better than me. Chris Beatty could be available again?

Maybe he'd stay for two months this time.

 

[anomander]

Something that doesn't factor into the recruiting rankings are the transfers that Babers has brought in. He currently has three 4star kids playing major roles that we got through JC's or PG. Pierce, Martin, and Robinson are all former 4 star recruits.

I am actually in the middle of a little something that I have been working on that shows that maybe recruiting rankings do matter. We have more 4star, top 300 guys, playing significant roles than we have had in a long time.

 

[sdhall01]

Something that doesn't factor into the recruiting rankings are the transfers that Babers has brought in. He currently has three 4star kids playing major roles that we got through JC's or PG. Pierce, Martin, and Robinson are all former 4 star recruits.

I am actually in the middle of a little something that I have been working on that shows that maybe recruiting rankings do matter. We have more 4star, top 300 guys, playing significant roles than we have had in a long time.

Just keep in mind that the third (MAYBE fourth) best player on our defense—and best player on our secondary—is a freshman 3* recruit.

Also, I don’t think anyone believes recruiting rankings have NO BEARING. I think they think it’s not everything.

 

[anomander]

Just keep in mind that the third (MAYBE fourth) best player on our defense—and best player on our secondary—is a freshman 3* recruit.

Also, I don’t think anyone believes recruiting rankings have NO BEARING. I think they think it’s not everything.

Before when we weren’t getting better kids it was always stars don’t matter anyways. I don’t think they are everything, but it tends to average out. Talent is obviously a major factor. How accurate that is evaluated and how it em equals production is what I am looking at. With that said I don’t think you can give HCSS this same exac roster and expect the same results. Coaching and scheme are just as important, if not more.

 

[PAcuse]

I think it's really hard to rate all the kids 100% correctly. I found the data from 2013:
310k Senior High School players
33 - 5 star kids
399 - 4 star kids
1409 - 3 star kids
1842 - 2 star kids
296,317 - NA

So ratings do have some barring on how good a kid is BUT the hidden factor is also what High School they go to and how many camps they can get to. I see the 3 star ranking as HUGE grey area as you can see these kids climb a lot higher really fast, exhibit A Cisco, and then you have some 3 stars, see Kimble and Wilson that never pan out and move on from D1. Then of course the 2 star kids sometimes turn out to be Chandler Jones but most are the Ben Lewis type that can grind out a position on a lower level D1 school or solid depth for non P5 schools.
Then of course you get the over-hyped 4 stars like our 2014 class of Enoicy, Edouard, and Long...

End of we can go back and forth about rankings and what kids might do, but have to wait a few years to see what they actually can do.
Having said all that you can see on the type that they overall quality of recurit is better under Babers and with the rankings we are much lower because we are taking a small class.

 

[reedny]

Before when we weren’t getting better kids it was always stars don’t matter anyways. I don’t think they are everything, but it tends to average out. Talent is obviously a major factor. How accurate that is evaluated and how it em equals production is what I am looking at. With that said I don’t think you can give HCSS this same exac roster and expect the same results. Coaching and scheme are just as important, if not more.

And that's basically what the studies show. Individual stars are difficult to generalize from. But stars across a recruiting class do correlate to success. There are (exogenous) variables like coaching, scheme, etc. But overall stars are strong predictors ... as anyone can see looking back at the various NC's and the star ratings of their classes.

 

[sdhall01]

Before when we weren’t getting better kids it was always stars don’t matter anyways. I don’t think they are everything, but it tends to average out. Talent is obviously a major factor. How accurate that is evaluated and how it em equals production is what I am looking at. With that said I don’t think you can give HCSS this same exac roster and expect the same results. Coaching and scheme are just as important, if not more.

I think we’re in violent agreement with one another. The only time I’d say that stars have very little bearing is in camp offers. If a kid camps and the coaches like him, then I honestly don’t care what they’re rated. This goes doubly if they commit and don’t attend the recruiting service camps.

 

[anomander]

This doesn't include 3 of the best players for next year. Adams, Jackson, and Jordan.

And this is specifically what Babers said he would do. He would supplement the roster with high level transfers from elite programs where the situation didn't work out for one reason or another. Hoepfully Hudson is this years addition

 

[Smitty315]

I stopped caring about Recruiting ratings early this year. Especially for kids who camped and offered. If you look at the two deep most the players that camped are on it and/or Contribiting

 

[FrancoPizza]

And what 2 recruiters would you suggest?

Gmac

 

[CA Monk]

Recruiting services do not address schools recruiting to areas of need or to the diversity of the class. That is if you recruit (and I’ll exaggerate here) four 5 star tight ends your class ranking will be stellar. But will you really have helped your team by overstocking at one position or failing to recruit in areas of need? For all their quantifying of athletic skill the sites fail to account for recruiting to areas of need.
The don’t always rank classes or players correctly because you can’t put a hard number on human endeavors, but I’ll admit there’s a strong correlation between on field success and recruiting higher ranked players. However, and it’s probsbly a minor point, there should be a further refinement of class rankings based on recruiting to the needs of that particular team.