Clemson 4th down call right before halftime

[Opus]

He said if we had kicked the field goal, then we would have had to kick the ball back to you all and he didn't want to risk a return for a TD and change the momentum of the game going into the second half. He said best case was we make the TD, worst case is that you all are pinned back.

If he (anyone) thought we had a chance for a come back at halftime down 38-14 then Dabo is as stupit as I thought he was... Carry on.

 

[Jeremy L.]

Technically kicking a field goal would be trying to run up the score as well lol. Like I've always said, if you don't want them to score, stop them.

 

[bnoro]

Technically kicking a field goal would be trying to run up the score as well lol. Like I've always said, if you don't want them to score, stop them.

We have a winner!

(I assume you're a Pats fan like me)

 

[rmtsu]

if we had capitalized on the number of opportunities to close the gap to 14 pts or better it wouldn't be crossing anyones mind of the decision..

The only reason it should have been an issue would have been if we had come all the way back and kicked a field to win, which wasn't likely but we did have some chances in the 3rd quarter to cut the lead. Anything short of that, all it did was fire up SU for a while. No way was it running up the score, a little puzzling when they went for it and I think it may have provided a little spark for the team, but I didn't have a problem with it as far as an opponent trying it against us.

Unfortunately we couldn't capitalize on the couple chances we had when we stopped them a couple times. I'm more concerned with the fact that we continually give up big plays where we looked completely lost. Its been an issue for years, heck we gave up a 69 yard TD pass to Stony Brook, the short wr screens continue to hurt us (Pitt took one to the house on their 1st play in 2010 and teams continue to be able to pick up good chunks of yards in the passing game, even Wagner had guys open they just couldn't catch the ball). So am I worried about Clemson trying to score before the end of the 1st half? Wow never thought I'd be hearing that as an issue regardless of the score. However I did get a bit fired up when we stopped them not because I thought they were running up the score but thought they were a bit greedy and should have just taken the FG. We have far more issues to be concerned with than this.

 

[Chip]

We have a winner!

(I assume you're a Pats fan like me)

Really the ultimate embarrassment is to get to the 1, then take a knee. Nothing worse than pity. Judging by Shafer's foolish reaction, I kinda wish that's what Clemson did.

 

[007]

They were up 35-7 and they decide to go for it versus kick the FG. We stuffed their asses, but still pissed me off. I probably would've done the same thing if I were Dabo, but it still pissed me off along with my whole section.

I really like Shafer's fiery intensity on that play towards Dabo:

He was so pissed, SU held them to 49. Take that Dabo. Next time we might not unlock the door.

 

[OrangePA]

You kick the FG.

 

[ImperialOrange]

How would you feel if we had took a knee? To me, that would be more embarrassing than somebody sticking it straight up your ass in your own house with nearly half a hundred at halftime.

I love that Dabo making that statement makes it ok to you. You kick the fieldgoal for 2 reasons: 2) makes it a 4 score game and 1) there is no potential to get your heisman contending, national title leading (hopefully) qb or any other starter hurt.

If Boyd's knee gets blown out on that play do you still love the playcall? I have a feeling most Clemson fans reaction would be identical to our coaches reaction. Our coach lost his mind for a few seconds but you are aware that some coaches wouldve went a step further and went for a cheap shot on your qb and possibly o line as well correct? All because your coach was trying to pad your qb's heisman stats in a game where he really didn't need to.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

They were up 35-7 and they decide to go for it versus kick the FG. We stuffed their asses, but still pissed me off. I probably would've done the same thing if I were Dabo, but it still pissed me off along with my whole section.

I really like Shafer's fiery intensity on that play towards Dabo:

I was more pissed off at Shafer opting to kick a 42 yard field goal down 35-14 halfway into the third quarter. It was 4th and 11, but come on. You're down 21 points, and have an unproven kicker. Go for it, and don't get it Clemson gets the ball at that spot. Kick a field goal and don't get it and the same thing happens. There was no downside to going for it there. As Millhouse would say, that's a meathead play.

 

[upperdeck]

the field goal was the correct choice. you need to build the momentum.. we make it the crowd stays energized.. we ended up stopping them again and probably would have kicked the next one had we made the first.. at that point it would have been 35-20 and a 2 score game.. we missed it and were forced to go for the next 4th down.. we completed 7-8 passes all day so a 4th and 11 is probably unlikely..

 

[Millhouse]

What are the stats on 4th and 5? Prob pretty bad... And certainly worse on 4th and goal from the 5.

And there isn't a huge difference b/w 38-7 and 42-7. But there is a huge difference between 38-7 and 35-7.

No matter the argument, it was a stupid play and we won that battle. They won the other 99 battles.

I'm unfamiliar with your new math

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[TheCusian]

You guys are missing what he said going into the half. He said he wanted to score so he could get more players into the game in the second half.

I don't really have a problem with the decision (it was obviously a bad one - and it fired up our whole team for a better 3rd quarter). But it was disrespectful of his opponent.

 

[anomander]

This isn't some middle of the pack Big East team, Clemson has a legit shot for the national title and unfortunately style points matter. I had absolutely no problem doing what they did and would have done the same myself. I found it embarrassing what HCSS did. It was the 2nd quarter on the road in a 4 score game.


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[CusefanATL]

I'm unfamiliar with your new math

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35-7 requires 4 possessions
38-7 requires 5 possessions or 4 with 3 consecutive successful 2 pt conversions
42-7 requires 5 possessions

more than likely no one is going for 2 down 38-20 in the 3rd quarter - so 38-7 requires the same amount of possessions as 42-7 and basically puts the game completely out of reach.

I am not sure what new math that required...

 

[orangeinjersey]

Had this happened in the 4th qtr, id be upset, but cmon, it was the 2nd qtr. How do you "run up the score" in the 2nd quarter? We arent an FCS team. We are "supposed" to be a big time football school playing in a big time conference. We are not "supposed" to be down 35-7 at halftime. And these clowns were still chest pounding and celebrating being down 4 TD's.

This game was such a let down. Thank god for Harry's Faegans and cheap booz, otherwise this weekend would have been a disaster. I hope thise kids learned something from this Clemson team this week, and let their "play on the field" be there talk moving forward with the rest of the season.

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

I have no problem with the call. However, I have a huge problem with SS and the lack of discipline it shows. This is exactly what you might expect out of a bunch of assistants from a lower level conference, certainly not from SU and our lineage. Leader and mentor of young men? Nah..

The lack of planning and discipline in the program right now is appalling.

 

[sufandu]

I have absolutely no problem with them going for it at the end of the first half up 28. I would want us to do it. It's no different than us running a reverse against Rutgers in '98 with us already up 28-0 and then throwing a 50 yard touchdown pass with 15 seconds to go in the half to go up 42-7. I firmly believe in the "step on their throat" philosophy.

 

[Millhouse]

35-7 requires 4 possessions
38-7 requires 5 possessions or 4 with 3 consecutive successful 2 pt conversions
42-7 requires 5 possessions

more than likely no one is going for 2 down 38-20 in the 3rd quarter - so 38-7 requires the same amount of possessions as 42-7 and basically puts the game completely out of reach.

I am not sure what new math that required...

you don't know how many 2 point conversions there are going to be, you don't know how much clemson will score. in the first half, even with a big lead, you go with the higher expected value.

if i wanted to play the game with possessions, you could just assume off the bat that SU needs to hit on every 2 point conversion if they want to have a chance. going up 42 to 7 is the only scenario where it would take 5 TD plus 5 two point conversions

 

[IthacaBarrel]

It's easy to see why Shafer and Harbaugh got along so well, similar personalities in many ways. What is amazing to me yet again, is people protested that Marrone was too stoic, wasn't a players first coach, now we have a firey, player's coach and people complain about that.

I don't care what a coach does or doesn't do as long as he is effective. I think Shafer will settle in here at Syracuse but will need to make some staff tweaks firs couple years like Doug did.

I think the new HC, dc and oc are all struggling a bit to find their way a bit which is to be expected. Like I said, bullogh is wearing my ass out early

 

[Rocco]

How would you feel if we had took a knee? To me, that would be more embarrassing than somebody sticking it straight up your ass in your own house with nearly half a hundred at halftime.

Taking a knee? No kick the FG and take the points. Let's be honest, Syracuse doesn't have a threatening kick return game, so I'm not digging the possibility of a return. That was Dabo sticking it to Shafer, and like I said above, probably would've done the same thing if I were Dabo.

Dabo's still an ass, which I thought before the game.

 

[Millhouse]

I was more pissed off at Shafer opting to kick a 42 yard field goal down 35-14 halfway into the third quarter. It was 4th and 11, but come on. You're down 21 points, and have an unproven kicker. Go for it, and don't get it Clemson gets the ball at that spot. Kick a field goal and don't get it and the same thing happens. There was no downside to going for it there. As Millhouse would say, that's a meathead play.

Believe it or not, using the advancednflstats.com 4th down calculator, the FG attempt was the third worse option, given the score and time remaining. That's with much better NFL kickers too. Going for it is only the 2nd best option. punting is actually the better move. now I wouldn't have any faith in a coffin corner punt but it's interesting to consider

assumptions in the calculator 29% chance of converting first down, 72% chance of making FG. knock both of those odds down and punting

when you're that far behind with so little time, you gotta start doing crazy stuff to improve win probabilities. punting to the one, getting a safety, getting the ball back near midfield... very unlikely but probably better odds than kicking that FG.

you have a 3% chance of winning kicking, 4% of winning going for it and 5% chance punting

I know that calculator is based on real games and i wonder how many times that situation actually came up so I'm a little wary. it's just interesting to think about.

 

[CusefanATL]

you don't know how many 2 point conversions there are going to be, you don't know how much clemson will score. in the first half, even with a big lead, you go with the higher expected value.

if i wanted to play the game with possessions, you could just assume off the bat that SU needs to hit on every 2 point conversion if they want to have a chance. going up 42 to 7 is the only scenario where it would take 5 TD plus 5 two point conversions

i am confused...

and on top of that, im not sure what you are arguing. are you really saying it was a smart play? what if clemson was up 17-10? what was the smart play there? go for a 4th and goal from the 5 and pin us deep so we dont get a chance at a kick return?

come on... thats a joke.

 

[Millhouse]

It's easy to see why Shafer and Harbaugh got along so well, similar personalities in many ways. What is amazing to me yet again, is people protested that Marrone was too stoic, wasn't a players first coach, now we have a firey, player's coach and people complain about that.

I don't care what a coach does or doesn't do as long as he is effective. I think Shafer will settle in here at Syracuse but will need to make some staff tweaks firs couple years like Doug did.

I think the new HC, dc and oc are all struggling a bit to find their way a bit which is to be expected. Like I said, bullogh is wearing my ass out early

this is totally unfair and unreasonable, but if you learned the game from hank bullough, you get a short leash.

i know this stupid coaching fraternity loves to hire people's kids but can't we find a good coach whose kid we can hire?

 

[CusefanATL]

Taking a knee? No kick the FG and take the points. Let's be honest, Syracuse doesn't have a threatening kick return game, so I'm not digging the possibility of a return. That was Dabo sticking it to Shafer, and like I said above, probably would've done the same thing if I were Dabo.

Dabo's still an ass, which I thought before the game.

this is 100% correct.

looking back on the play - the only thing that pissed me off about it was Dabo's reasoning for it. He mocked anyone and everyone that listened.

He should have just said - i thought we had a good play and i wanted to take a huge lead into the half to prove that syracuse, their program, their coaches, their fans, and their dome are still big east quality.

at least he would have been being honest.

 

[Millhouse]

i am confused...

and on top of that, im not sure what you are arguing. are you really saying it was a smart play? what if clemson was up 17-10? what was the smart play there? go for a 4th and goal from the 5 and pin us deep so we dont get a chance at a kick return?

come on... thats a joke.

ok so we'll ignore the chance of a kick return even though you shouldn't. I'll also assume 100% certainty that they'd make the FG

that means the expected value of going for it is better if you have a 43% chance of converting.

with those receivers, that's conservative.