Clemson wants out of the ACC too...(shocker)

[JimBoston]

If you read the Clemson lawsuit, they told the ACC they were interested in figuring out the financial impact of leaving the ACC and notified the ACC in early 2023 or over a year ago. Supposedly, they wanted to privately negotiate and not have a lawsuit. And, it also now appears that UNC is not happy with the ACC.

GORs seem pretty solid, but there are some key issues that need to be resolved like: Since ESPN has an option to extend the ACC TV contract past 2027 and they haven't yet, what does that mean for the GORs? Are the exit fees excessive as a court could say they are? Were the people who signed the TV contract authorized to commit their school to the contract? Does Swofford steering part of the media contract to Raycom where his son worked mean the ACC Conference did not fairly maximize the value of the media contract and not perform their fiduciary duty to the ACC schools?

 

[DustyMoore]

Hah so true. Forgetting how they target northern students for out of state tuition rates. It’s been a boondoggle - see recent John Oliver episode.

People forget how interconnected all this stuff is. The problem is that nobody wants to share the giant pool of money - they want to share their individualized pools. But the giant pool only grows if everyone works together to grow the sport across the country.

I appreciate that some regions like college football more. But you also need teams to beat up on. and the northern fans still have tv’s and watch games quite a bit. If you remove big time football from some big population regions, over time that will impact the southern tv ratings too. It’s not hard to see who tunes in right now. The numbers are all out that.yes the big ten and sec dominate at the top end but not all their ratings come from the south. They come from being top 25 matchups. People tune into the best games.

A Syracuse-Clemson game in 2022 drew nearly 5 million viewers and was a top game that week. Top 25 matchups sell. If regions grow up where their schools aren’t in some kind of contention (ie they don’t have any hope), you will see cfb fall more and more. It’s a short sighted money grab that ignores what’s best for the overall sport.

“They come from being top 25 matchups. People tune into the best games.”

We’re lucky to get 3-4 of those a year in the ACC. How many top 25 match ups do you supposed we get in the SEC?

culturally, the Univ and fan base is a better fit in the SEC. We’re obsessed with Football, love baseball and like basketball when we’re winning.

This was as not an easy decision for the Univ. Clemson is a founding member of the conference. Too many decisions by conference officials over the years that were basketball driven.

Currently our fan base is having to supplement the payout difference and that is not sustainable or pushing the needle.

“more than 60% came from Clemson athletics' fundraising arm, IPTAY, which received a record $135 million in donations in fiscal year 2023.”

I get the hate from the fans of our conference affiliates because this move threatens their schools revenue. Bottom line is that too many in the conference have not made the investment over the years in football so here we are.

This is not a short sighted money grab, this is the result of poor decision making by conference leadership, greed of the BIG & SEC, and ESPN for allowing it to get this far.

It sucks but it is what it is…

 

[DustyMoore]

Diminishing returns are a a real thing.

And you guys recruit the heck outta the mid-Atlantic and the northeast for students. You're not dipping into Alabama and Louisiana for that.

Our recruiting focus is Ga, Fl and NC.. in that order while spot recruiting nationally if the fit is right.

We do pull from the mid-Atlantic but it it’s not more important than the South.

We have 20 kids on our roster from Alabama & Texas.

2023-24

Content filed under the 2023-24 taxonomy.

clemsontigers.com

 

[DustyMoore]

If the south wants to break away to fund their economies down south they should
Do that. Thats a cultural divide I don’t get at all.

Maybe those schools should just get rid of
The loss leader educational part of
These football operations

Then where would all the kids from up North go?!?

kidding with you. Sort of… we do have a lot of kids from NY, NJ and Penn

 

[WoadBlue]

This may be a dumb question...but why WOULDN'T ESPN simply toss more money at the ACC like they have every other Athletic entity...

Now, I'm not naive to the pressures these "broadcasters" are facing, nor the problems that ESPN has being owned by Disney (vs. Fox being owned by whatever owns them)...

But my question is...is it the case that...ESPN WOULD offer more money to the ACC, but in doing so they would re-open the whole deal, etc etc? Like is there no way out even if they wanted to?

I would think ESPN likes having the SEC AND the ACC, lots of $$ there, but maybe they can't save it to save it?

I assume there is a lot of dumbness embedded there...

It seems clear to me that ESPNJ a long time ago decided that it would act in concert with the BT and Fox to either kill or seriously weaken each of the other 3 of the P5, so BT and SEC could have almost all the wealth and power. And then those 2 leagues would hare a MASSIVE pot, because everybody else would be impoverished.

If ESPN did not want this it would have prevented by actually using those contractual 'look-ins' to pay the ACC a bit better.

 

[WoadBlue]

I’m all about USF joining the ACC and them becoming one of our rivals as I utterly cannot stand them or their unhinged HC.

Which coach? Football or basketball?

 

[richmondcuse03]

“They come from being top 25 matchups. People tune into the best games.”

We’re lucky to get 3-4 of those a year in the ACC. How many top 25 match ups do you supposed we get in the SEC?

culturally, the Univ and fan base is a better fit in the SEC. We’re obsessed with Football, love baseball and like basketball when we’re winning.

This was as not an easy decision for the Univ. Clemson is a founding member of the conference. Too many decisions by conference officials over the years that were basketball driven.

Currently our fan base is having to supplement the payout difference and that is not sustainable or pushing the needle.

“more than 60% came from Clemson athletics' fundraising arm, IPTAY, which received a record $135 million in donations in fiscal year 2023.”

I get the hate from the fans of our conference affiliates because this move threatens their schools revenue. Bottom line is that too many in the conference have not made the investment over the years in football so here we are.

This is not a short sighted money grab, this is the result of poor decision making by conference leadership, greed of the BIG & SEC, and ESPN for allowing it to get this far.

It sucks but it is what it is…

It's short sighted by ALL the collective leaders of college football. Clemson is just following the lead of many others. There were rational ways to fix this but as you said, a lack of leadership.

Over time, it'll reduce the overall population of fans interested in college football if you make it purely a regional sport. If you eliminate a big part of the country and the money they bring...you're reducing the TAM. Most rational business leaders don't try to reduce a TAM but that's what they're going for here.

 

[DustyMoore]

It's short sighted by ALL the collective leaders of college football. Clemson is just following the lead of many others. There were rational ways to fix this but as you said, a lack of leadership.

Over time, it'll reduce the overall population of fans interested in college football if you make it purely a regional sport. If you eliminate a big part of the country and the money they bring...you're reducing the TAM. Most rational business leaders don't try to reduce a TAM but that's what they're going for here.

Spot on Sir and it’s been sad to watch.

 

[Orangeman]

It's short sighted by ALL the collective leaders of college football. Clemson is just following the lead of many others. There were rational ways to fix this but as you said, a lack of leadership.

Over time, it'll reduce the overall population of fans interested in college football if you make it purely a regional sport. If you eliminate a big part of the country and the money they bring...you're reducing the TAM. Most rational business leaders don't try to reduce a TAM but that's what they're going for here.

The "I don't watch the G or D League" or whatever you call it argument is fairly on point here...whatever comes out of this with their 38-40 team "conference, it will be better than a G League but I still won't watch it.

 

[dasher]

“They come from being top 25 matchups. People tune into the best games.”

We’re lucky to get 3-4 of those a year in the ACC. How many top 25 match ups do you supposed we get in the SEC?

culturally, the Univ and fan base is a better fit in the SEC. We’re obsessed with Football, love baseball and like basketball when we’re winning.

This was as not an easy decision for the Univ. Clemson is a founding member of the conference. Too many decisions by conference officials over the years that were basketball driven.

Currently our fan base is having to supplement the payout difference and that is not sustainable or pushing the needle.

“more than 60% came from Clemson athletics' fundraising arm, IPTAY, which received a record $135 million in donations in fiscal year 2023.”

I get the hate from the fans of our conference affiliates because this move threatens their schools revenue. Bottom line is that too many in the conference have not made the investment over the years in football so here we are.

This is not a short sighted money grab, this is the result of poor decision making by conference leadership, greed of the BIG & SEC, and ESPN for allowing it to get this far.

It sucks but it is what it is…

You will lose in court.

 

[hoopsupstate]

ESPN has joined the ACC in the lawsuit. It tells me they don’t want to lose FSU or Clemson. They lose a lot of content if the ACC goes away. I wonder if they agree to renegotiate the contract in 2026 if it would change anything. ND could also be a big part of this. They really rely on the ACC for everything except football. I was disappointed to see that they get $12 million in the new CFP. I assume they only get that if they are part of the playoff. Each ACC team gets $13 million. They don’t get any first round byes or guarantees. If they were left out they would have been forced to join a conference.

 

[DustyMoore]

You will lose in court.

That remains to be seen but I’m not sure this will make it to court.

The UNC BoT just sided with Clemson so I’m not sure what to think anymore. For those who may not be aware we do not have a positive history with them.

 

[dasher]

That remains to be seen but I’m not sure this will make it to court.

The UNC BoT just sided with Clemson so I’m not sure what to think anymore. For those who may not be aware we do not have a positive history with them.

I don't see anyway it doesn't get to court. If the ACC were to cave, and settle, it would be the beginning of a free for all that would not end well for the ACC. Or espn. Clemson and UNC and anyone else who wants to join them, signed the deal knowing all of the details. The fact that the world changed sucks for them, but it doesn't change the fact that they willingly signed the deal The ACC can't settle. And while a bad settlement is almost always better than a good judgment, the ACC can't deal.

 

[cuse62]

Clemson, FSU and anyone else can leave any time they want. All they have to do is pay what they agreed to pay.

 

[Jack_Ball]

If having the most money made a huge difference then the yankees & red sox would win the world series every year

 

[OptimusOtto]

Clemson, FSU and anyone else can leave any time they want. All they have to do is pay what they agreed to pay.

I'm all for us standing idly by and collecting whatever exit fees all these schools end up forking up then seeing where the chips lie.

 

[upperdeck]

so you sign a contract that increases your worth and then yrs in you decide its not enough,, do you pay back the money you earned? no one had to stay and sign the GOR

 

[David321]

Which coach? Football or basketball?

FB, I don’t follow MBB.

 

[Toga]

I don't see anyway it doesn't get to court. If the ACC were to cave, and settle, it would be the beginning of a free for all that would not end well for the ACC. Or espn. Clemson and UNC and anyone else who wants to join them, signed the deal knowing all of the details. The fact that the world changed sucks for them, but it doesn't change the fact that they willingly signed the deal The ACC can't settle. And while a bad settlement is almost always better than a good judgment, the ACC can't deal.

No half measures

 

[JRHEETER]

have to find it hard to believe that JW hasn’t poked around back channels in case this whole conference falls apart

We would be naive to think that every other school in the ACC hasn’t done that

Not that it’s a guarantee we jump but if we have to, we want to make sure we have a net

 

[DocFlanders]

Yep. That better be the plan, protect what we got, hope for the best, but plan for an impending implosion

 

[baggerbob]

have to find it hard to believe that JW hasn’t poked around back channels in case this whole conference falls apart

We would be naive to think that every other school in the ACC hasn’t done that

Not that it’s a guarantee we jump but if we have to, we want to make sure we have a net

Bringing in Fran to get the football program back where it belongs is a start.
Basketball is a work in progress, but if both programs get back to 80's level we will have suiters.

 

[WoadBlue]

FB, I don’t follow MBB.

Not at all? And to think I get reamed for making certain all ACC people know that football is superior in every sense while also loving college hoops.

 

[David321]

Not at all? And to think I get reamed for making certain all ACC people know that football is superior in every sense while also loving college hoops.

Just can’t get into it. I wish the MBB team well but it’s not something that I pay attention to at all.

 

[SmilinBob]

That remains to be seen but I’m not sure this will make it to court.

The UNC BoT just sided with Clemson so I’m not sure what to think anymore. For those who may not be aware we do not have a positive history with them.

Interesting about UNC, knew this was coming from their votes and curious where this goes and what their reason is.