Clemson wants out of the ACC too...(shocker)

[Hoo's That]

Sounds like modern slavery, reel them in, use them up, sort them out, the NFL will skim off the top when ready and the leftovers will leave maimed with no degree at an even greater clip. This is what we have come to? Almost prophetic my friends. Would we send our children into this?

Sounds like minor league baseball.

 

[GHLF]

Personally, I hope that private Universities all do well. SU Vandy, NW, we need to hope for miracles with what is transpiring. Find it odd that we would put down one of the few schools that we have anything in common with in a league some of us pine for.

The Amazing thing is that we have such a rich tradition, very special. However with all that is occurring in college sports, IDK. Disturbing. The amazing thing is that it has nothing to do with academics. Bought chancellors might say otherwise, however, it is just a shame. Current times. I think I personally need to just get over it.

 

[Orangeman]

This may be a dumb question...but why WOULDN'T ESPN simply toss more money at the ACC like they have every other Athletic entity...

Now, I'm not naive to the pressures these "broadcasters" are facing, nor the problems that ESPN has being owned by Disney (vs. Fox being owned by whatever owns them)...

But my question is...is it the case that...ESPN WOULD offer more money to the ACC, but in doing so they would re-open the whole deal, etc etc? Like is there no way out even if they wanted to?

I would think ESPN likes having the SEC AND the ACC, lots of $$ there, but maybe they can't save it to save it?

I assume there is a lot of dumbness embedded there...

 

[Dinkyspond]

Sounds like minor league baseball.

My friend was an assistant general manager of a minor league team for awhile. He said 10% of the players in MiLB are MLB prospects. The rest are just roster fillers to provide games for the 10% who might have a shot at the show. He said it's tough to tell non-prospects they are "organizational depth," a code word for non-prospect. He said the non-prospects keep at it year after year hoping they can change it around or get a look at another organization. Sometimes baseball is all they know. A tough way to exist but they don't give up on the dream.

 

[Hoo's That]

My friend was an assistant general manager of a minor league team for awhile. He said 10% of the players in MiLB are MLB prospects. The rest are just roster fillers to provide games for the 10% who might have a shot at the show. He said it's tough to tell non-prospects they are "organizational depth," a code word for non-prospect. He said the non-prospects keep at it year after year hoping they can change it around or get a look at another organization. A tough way to exist.

You're preaching to the choir, Reverend. Look at CFB now. It's scary when you think about how many players think they could play in the pros and how many actually even get to a training camp.

 

[Dinkyspond]

You're preaching to the choir, Reverend. Look at CFB now. It's scary when you think about how many players think they could play in the pros and how many actually even get to a training camp.

what's the percentage, 1% make it to the NFL, better have a backup plan and get a real education

 

[HtownOrange]

Superb analysis. The highlighted is the key part. If GoRs are invalidated as a whole, then no conference is safe. I keep harking back to this. People love to say, "Why would anyone leave the big money of the SEC and B1G?" The reply is, "For even bigger money of a bluebloods-only conference." And if no one is tied to their present conference by a GoR, they can leave the day after the decision is finalized in the appeals process.

Good point. The only thing that may interfere with this is that the Big 10 actually owns the BTN, at least in part. Leaving the B1G is a tough choice, kind of like Hotel California, "you can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave".

Seriously, the bigger schools will want to form that "almost pro conference" and the money will be good...until a few years down the road, they face the same reality every other conference faces, sports are a zero sum gain. There will be a couple at the top, several in the middle and a few at the bottom. And few people will watch...

 

[HtownOrange]

Paid players who don't have to attend class are the eventual endgame the bluebloods of the SEC and B1G want and are working to create. The universities will own franchises like the Universities in Mexico City (Pumas) and Nuevo Laredo (Tigres) do in the Mexican soccer league.

Isn't this the start game? Where UM paid players to "attend" UM and play football, which lead to the "student athlete", you know, that romanticized fictional kid who was academically fit as well as athletically fit. He or she actually attended classes and earned real degrees. Ahhhh, the good ole' days...

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. See, Southern Conference.

 

[Hoo's That]

Isn't this the start game? Where UM paid players to "attend" UM and play football, which lead to the "student athlete", you know, that romanticized fictional kid who was academically fit as well as athletically fit. He or she actually attended classes and earned real degrees. Ahhhh, the good ole' days...

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. See, Southern Conference.

Nowadays a lot of those folks are called "non-revenue sport athletes".

 

[David321]

My best bet to aid to the ACC would be USF. The school is larger than FSU, and I think their alums have a higher average income. USF has earned AAU status. Those alums are now very proud of that school, and it will carry over into sports.

I’m all about USF joining the ACC and them becoming one of our rivals as I utterly cannot stand them or their unhinged HC.

 

[David321]

Rutgers and Maryland beat us. No way to argue otherwise. They are in. We are out.

For how long though? I heard something this evening on the College Gameday podcast that really made me think; what do business models do once they think they can’t generate anymore revenue? They get lean and cut costs.

The new mega P2 league will only be able to grow so much, eventually the private equity investors will want an increase in profits once they plateau. At that point teams/ fanbases that are underperforming could get the axe, particularly now that we are living in an age where contracts are seemingly meant to be broken.

Not my original idea but this is what Rece Davis speculated and it makes a lot of sense. Being in the P2 could eventually become very cutthroat.

 

[DustyMoore]

It must be nice to be Clemson (and to a lesser extent FSU) and know what they have in their obsessive fan bases.

They're going to spend a material amount on legal fees, best case get a negotiated down buy out, then spend money on that buyout. Then ideally get in a league that will pay them even more money.

And before, during, and after all this, will ask their fan base to buy tickets to games, donate money for facility modernizations, and supply the funds to pay the players. And they'll do it.

“And they’ll do it”

Without hesitation, we will.

 

[DustyMoore]

Spot on. The best interest of the sport. It's one reason that the NFL is so strong.

Imagine being a booster or AD and undermining a (let's call it) $2+Billion sport like college football just because your ego/hubris won't allow for making $14Million less than a school from a neighboring state.

I am looking at you FSU, Clemson, USC, UCLA. Texas and Oklahoma too. Do you think Clemson needs another lazy river in its Football Complex or its whiffle ball field is outdated? Dabo might need a 7th defensive analyst, right? I also think it is way better for everyone involved if the cross-country runner from UCLA studies for her chem and psychology exams while flying east over the Rockies to Penn State. Seems like solid rationale.

Not hating… this is not about a $12M difference or a “lazy river within the complex.”

Clemson is at a significant financial disadvantage from our biggest competition. The impact is felt across all programs not just football.

Respectfully, our goals are different. I, and many of our fans enjoy the rivalry with Syracuse. Not sure if any other school has given us more heart attacks and fight than the Orange within the ACC since y’all joined.

But the schools are y’all mentioned are Rutgers, Pitt, northwestern, Boston College, etc. Meanwhile we have Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina, Auburn, and Alabama Essentially in our backyard, making tens of millions more annually.

Football not only drives revenue across our other sports but also the university and the state itself. The decisions being made, are to ensure competitiveness for national championships and continue growth.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

For how long though? I heard something this evening on the College Gameday podcast that really made me think; what do business models do once they think they can’t generate anymore revenue? They get lean and cut costs.

The new mega P2 league will only be able to grow so much, eventually the private equity investors will want an increase in profits once they plateau. At that point teams/ fanbases that are underperforming could get the axe, particularly now that we are living in an age where contracts are seemingly meant to be broken.

Not my original idea but this is what Rece Davis speculated and it makes a lot of sense. Being in the P2 could eventually become very cutthroat.

That IMO will never work. They will end up with Minor League FB and College FB. The fans will eventually gravitate back to College FB. They won't have a monopoly on FB like they think. Just like people won't watch the G League over College BBall. Eventually you will have fans at a school like Texas pushing to go back to school.

 

[elimunelson]

Not hating… this is not about a $12M difference or a “lazy river within the complex.”

Clemson is at a significant financial disadvantage from our biggest competition. The impact is felt across all programs not just football.

Respectfully, our goals are different. I, and many of our fans enjoy the rivalry with Syracuse. Not sure if any other school has given us more heart attacks and fight than the Orange within the ACC since y’all joined.

But the schools are y’all mentioned are Rutgers, Pitt, northwestern, Boston College, etc. Meanwhile we have Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina, Auburn, and Alabama Essentially in our backyard, making tens of millions more annually.

Football not only drives revenue across our other sports but also the university and the state itself. The decisions being made, are to ensure competitiveness for national championships and continue growth.

If the south wants to break away to fund their economies down south they should
Do that. Thats a cultural divide I don’t get at all.

Maybe those schools should just get rid of
The loss leader educational part of
These football operations

 

[Cusefan0307]

Not hating… this is not about a $12M difference or a “lazy river within the complex.”

Clemson is at a significant financial disadvantage from our biggest competition. The impact is felt across all programs not just football.

Respectfully, our goals are different. I, and many of our fans enjoy the rivalry with Syracuse. Not sure if any other school has given us more heart attacks and fight than the Orange within the ACC since y’all joined.

But the schools are y’all mentioned are Rutgers, Pitt, northwestern, Boston College, etc. Meanwhile we have Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina, Auburn, and Alabama Essentially in our backyard, making tens of millions more annually.

Football not only drives revenue across our other sports but also the university and the state itself. The decisions being made, are to ensure competitiveness for national championships and continue growth.

You guys better hope you get more money from the ACC because you're not winning sht if you join the SEC or Big 10. I'm not sure what people think the end game is, but to get out you're most definitely going to have to pony up a large some of money and possibly take a discount to go anywhere else if that is even possible. Short term you'll be worse off financially and long term is a long ways away. This is on the ACC administrators for signing a deal they didn't like. No one else.

 

[CousCuse]

If the south wants to break away to fund their economies down south they should
Do that. Thats a cultural divide I don’t get at all.

Maybe those schools should just get rid of
The loss leader educational part of
These football operations

Those states see collegiate sports as a huge driver of economic activity. For some unknown reason, the northeast states don't see that.

 

[richmondcuse03]

If the south wants to break away to fund their economies down south they should
Do that. Thats a cultural divide I don’t get at all.

Maybe those schools should just get rid of
The loss leader educational part of
These football operations

Hah so true. Forgetting how they target northern students for out of state tuition rates. It’s been a boondoggle - see recent John Oliver episode.

People forget how interconnected all this stuff is. The problem is that nobody wants to share the giant pool of money - they want to share their individualized pools. But the giant pool only grows if everyone works together to grow the sport across the country.

I appreciate that some regions like college football more. But you also need teams to beat up on. and the northern fans still have tv’s and watch games quite a bit. If you remove big time football from some big population regions, over time that will impact the southern tv ratings too. It’s not hard to see who tunes in right now. The numbers are all out that.yes the big ten and sec dominate at the top end but not all their ratings come from the south. They come from being top 25 matchups. People tune into the best games.

A Syracuse-Clemson game in 2022 drew nearly 5 million viewers and was a top game that week. Top 25 matchups sell. If regions grow up where their schools aren’t in some kind of contention (ie they don’t have any hope), you will see cfb fall more and more. It’s a short sighted money grab that ignores what’s best for the overall sport.

 

[Newhouser]

They have a seat at the big boy table until the figurative price of being there (class attendance becoming optional) becomes too high and they excuse themselves. And to me it's only a question of when it becomes optional not if it becomes optional.

My thoughts too - some of the academic schools are going to tap out. New facilities and padded NIL accounts or not.

 

[longtimefan]

If the south wants to break away to fund their economies down south they should
Do that. Thats a cultural divide I don’t get at all.

Maybe those schools should just get rid of
The loss leader educational part of
These football operations

Have we got a college? Have we got a football team?...Well we can't afford both.
Tomorrow we start tearing down the college.

Groucho in "Horsefeathers"

 

[HtownOrange]

Just a reminder, Clemson is fighting the withdrawal fee and GOR legitimacy without the legally stated intent to leave. FSU wants out now but has no options but to throw a tantrum. Clemson is merely making a path so they can explore options. Much more of a mature approach. Though, I still believe their arguments are weak at best.

I truth, all schools not a part of the B1G or SEC are doing likewise, though some clearly have no options.

 

[Bayside44]

Not hating… this is not about a $12M difference or a “lazy river within the complex.”

Clemson is at a significant financial disadvantage from our biggest competition. The impact is felt across all programs not just football.

Respectfully, our goals are different. I, and many of our fans enjoy the rivalry with Syracuse. Not sure if any other school has given us more heart attacks and fight than the Orange within the ACC since y’all joined.

But the schools are y’all mentioned are Rutgers, Pitt, northwestern, Boston College, etc. Meanwhile we have Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina, Auburn, and Alabama Essentially in our backyard, making tens of millions more annually.

Football not only drives revenue across our other sports but also the university and the state itself. The decisions being made, are to ensure competitiveness for national championships and continue growth.

Diminishing returns are a a real thing.

And you guys recruit the heck outta the mid-Atlantic and the northeast for students. You're not dipping into Alabama and Louisiana for that.

 

[baggerbob]

You guys better hope you get more money from the ACC because you're not winning sht if you join the SEC or Big 10. I'm not sure what people think the end game is, but to get out you're most definitely going to have to pony up a large some of money and possibly take a discount to go anywhere else if that is even possible. Short term you'll be worse off financially and long term is a long ways away. This is on the ACC administrators for signing a deal they didn't like. No one else.

And having a Commissioner who set his son up at the expense of the league.

 

[rrlbees]

 

[HtownOrange]

Assuming this is true, FSU and Clemson will be sticking around for a while. Neither suit addresses the fundamental legal issues necessary to break the agreements they have made.