Clemson wants out of the ACC too...(shocker)

[Moontan]

I kind of feel like both FSU and Clemson are doing this to show that they're the "big dogs" in the conference. They know that they cannot win this.

But why do this?
They become internal enemies of the conference.
They (should) lose any standing in conference boards, etc..
Fees associated with their lawsuits will likely be removed from their conference distributions.
Their conference distributions may be placed on hold until the lawsuits are closed.

 

[SU94]

This was as not an easy decision for the Univ. Clemson is a founding member of the conference. Too many decisions by conference officials over the years that were basketball driven.

If you don’t like decisions being made that are basketball driven (and I think that is largely a red herring), then you’ll love when key decisions are being driven by the interests of Ohio State or Michigan in the B10 (or in the unlikelier scenario, Alabama and LSU in the SEC).

I mean, sack up Clemson and make your own breaks. You look/sound like a FSU wannabe.

 

[Hoo's That]

STOP right there! You obviously have not been viewing all of the Big12 fan videos delineating how easy it is to break the GOR and how FSU -and now Clemson, too- have outsmarted century old law, the great legal minds that are at the various P5 school, conferences, private firms, and TV networks with the Toddler Tantrum defense. (Sarcasm off)

Other than that, you’re spot on. The exit fee s 3X the TV payout for the year the notice of exit is provided. The ACC holds this right. The GOR is the value of the TV rights remaining on the contract. ESPN holds the TV rights (mostly).

Of course, what they'll never mention is if the ACC's GoR can be broken anyone's can be broken, including (especially?) the Big XII's. I may need to see a chiropractor about how I've hurt my neck from shaking my head so much at the series of "words of wisdom" from the Big XII.

 

[DustyMoore]

If you don’t like decisions being made that are basketball driven (and I think that is largely a red herring), then you’ll love when key decisions are being driven by the interests of Ohio State or Michigan in the B10 (or in the unlikelier scenario, Alabama and LSU in the SEC).

I mean, sack up Clemson and make your own breaks. You look/sound like a FSU wannabe.

By all reasonable measures, filing a lawsuit against ones on conference would qualify as sacking up and making our own break.

The same cannot be said for many of our conference affiliates who appear comfortable with mediocrity and, over the long term, have lacked the commitment required to elevate the conference brand.

I’m not even sure how to reply regarding your FSU wannabe statement. In many aspects, the two universities culturally align and for the most part have needed each other to drive interest in the conference over the years. That said, Clemson is not measuring itself against any other university… we’re doing just fine

 

[DustyMoore]

But why do this?
They become internal enemies of the conference.
They (should) lose any standing in conference boards, etc..
Fees associated with their lawsuits will likely be removed from their conference distributions.
Their conference distributions may be placed on hold until the lawsuits are closed.

I don’t know if the bylaws of the conference distribution would support withholding the funds.

But even then, the conference payout is roughly 1/5 of our total athletic department revenue.

Then you have to factor in that our athletic scholarships and facility enhancements are all paid by the booster club which also brought in X5 that of the conference payout last year. (Appox $174M)

Not that we’re in a hurry to lose the $34M provided by the conference but it would not be a deathblow by any means

 

[SURules]

I don’t know if the bylaws of the conference distribution would support withholding the funds.

But even then, the conference payout is roughly 1/5 of our total athletic department revenue.

Then you have to factor in that our athletic scholarships and facility enhancements are all paid by the booster club which also brought in X5 that of the conference payout last year. (Appox $174M)

Not that we’re in a hurry to lose the $34M provided by the conference but it would not be a deathblow by any means

So Clemson is flush with cash and money is a non-factor then as you say.

I will add that SU is on the way back up after far too many misses on head coaches and Clemson is trending down and after Dabo, it could be on a steep decline. The ships will be back to the 41-0 beat down that was no fluke bake in the late 90’s. The king only reigns for so long. Clemsons days are trending down now but are far to full of themselves still.

 

[Bayside44]

So Clemson is flush with cash and money is a non-factor then as you say.

I will add that SU is on the way back up after far too many misses on head coaches and Clemson is trending down and after Dabo could be on a steep decline. The ships will be back to the 41-0 beat down that was no fluke. The king only reigns for so long. Clemsons days are trending down now but are far to full of themselves still.

Dabo's flopping nonsense he has to use to beat a private school in upstate New York really isn't going to get him anywhere in Tuscaloosa or Athens.

 

[SU94]

By all reasonable measures, filing a lawsuit against ones on conference would qualify as sacking up and making our own break.

The same cannot be said for many of our conference affiliates who appear comfortable with mediocrity and, over the long term, have lacked the commitment required to elevate the conference brand.

I’m not even sure how to reply regarding your FSU wannabe statement. In many aspects, the two universities culturally align and for the most part have needed each other to drive interest in the conference over the years. That said, Clemson is not measuring itself against any other university… we’re doing just fine

"Mediocrity?" LOL. That's certainly ill-informed if you're speaking to actual athletic performance.

I would not want my university to be aligned in any way/shape/form with FSU right now.
They project immense conceit and lack of self-awareness.
Inmates (boosters) running the asylum (AD/Athletic Dept.).
And their legal team is -- at best -- minor league.

Sounds to me like CU aspires to be kept as a side piece for the B10's goliaths ("just call ahead, I'll be ready!").
I do think you'll "rank" ahead of Rutgers, ... tied with Maryland.
That's modern love.

 

[TheCusian]

By all reasonable measures, filing a lawsuit against ones on conference would qualify as sacking up and making our own break.

The same cannot be said for many of our conference affiliates who appear comfortable with mediocrity and, over the long term, have lacked the commitment required to elevate the conference brand.

I’m not even sure how to reply regarding your FSU wannabe statement. In many aspects, the two universities culturally align and for the most part have needed each other to drive interest in the conference over the years. That said, Clemson is not measuring itself against any other university… we’re doing just fine

One programs “comfortable with mediocrity” is another programs commitment to each other. Clemson and FSU’s actions will hasten the demise of the ACC and put significant strain on the sport’s viability.

ie. Culturally aligned as dumb and selfish

 

[Guinness]

I kind of feel like both FSU and Clemson are doing this to show that they're the "big dogs" in the conference. They know that they cannot win this.

I think FSU legitimately wants out. Clemson not so much. I think they are more about shifting the power of the ACC from the non-football schools, to the football schools.

 

[WoadBlue]

Of course, what they'll never mention is if the ACC's GoR can be broken anyone's can be broken, including (especially?) the Big XII's. I may need to see a chiropractor about how I've hurt my neck from shaking my head so much at the series of "words of wisdom" from the Big XII.

The Bog CXXI has. host of fans on the internet who cannot face the fact that the reason the Big 8 dissolved itself when the SWC did is the Big 8 territory had media power to support a major conference, so it had to get its schools into TX, with UT and TAMU. Now, they face a new harsh reality and want to spin it away as the Big XII is going to control everything not nailed down by BT or SEC. They do not care about logic or facts or consistency. They just want the reassurances.

 

[DoctorBombay]

The Bog CXXI has. host of fans on the internet who cannot face the fact that the reason the Big 8 dissolved itself when the SWC did is the Big 8 territory had media power to support a major conference, so it had to get its schools into TX, with UT and TAMU. Now, they face a new harsh reality and want to spin it away as the Big XII is going to control everything not nailed down by BT or SEC. They do not care about logic or facts or consistency. They just want the reassurances.

As long as the FSU's and Clemson's of the ACC continue to self sabotage the conference, then there's a good chance the Big12 can come out on top.
All that was required was a bit of patience by all, and the ACC would have their pick of Big12 scraps.
Instead first FSU, now Clemson, and who knows who else to follow, got greedier and more impatient, and the die has now been cast.
The ACC has no choice but to play major hardball here. Get as much as they can from the turncoats who're on their way out- it's a matter of survival.

 

[TexanMark]

I think FSU legitimately wants out. Clemson not so much. I think they are more about shifting the power of the ACC from the non-football schools, to the football schools.

They have crazy, insecure SEC wannabee fans…the administration has to pacify them

 

[DustyMoore]

So Clemson is flush with cash and money is a non-factor then as you say.

I will add that SU is on the way back up after far too many misses on head coaches and Clemson is trending down and after Dabo, it could be on a steep decline. The ships will be back to the 41-0 beat down that was no fluke bake in the late 90’s. The king only reigns for so long. Clemsons days are trending down now but are far to full of themselves still.

We’re not house poor by any means but my comment was in response to the previous post suggesting the ACC should withhold our annual TV revenue allotment.

Man… You had to bring up that old nightmare. That was the first beat down I recall as a fan (born in 81) and remember the rain was coming down so hard it looked like thick fog on the TV.

First time it hit me that we were a long way from the teams wearing the paw in the 80s and the climb would not be easy… didnt realize how long or humbling it would be.

I’ve always liked Cuse and your fan base. Wish you well and have no doubt the ship will get righted. Really hated Dino didn’t work out, was very hard to not pull for his success with the Orange.

 

[DustyMoore]

"Mediocrity?" LOL. That's certainly ill-informed if you're speaking to actual athletic performance.

I would not want my university to be aligned in any way/shape/form with FSU right now.
They project immense conceit and lack of self-awareness.
Inmates (boosters) running the asylum (AD/Athletic Dept.).
And their legal team is -- at best -- minor league.

Sounds to me like CU aspires to be kept as a side piece for the B10's goliaths ("just call ahead, I'll be ready!").
I do think you'll "rank" ahead of Rutgers, ... tied with Maryland.
That's modern love.

Fair point on FSU’s internal issues… they have an odd structure with how their booster system is set up in relation to the AD. I believe either sports illustrated or ESPN put out a very in-depth article on it a few years ago and they do have a significant amount of issues with their “alignment.”

We do not have that issue internally and from the boosters to the board to prez to AD, etc… you won’t see anyone step out of turn. Example UNC with their board member speaking out against their AD.

I’ve genuinely not looked at their legal team but can speak to the legitimacy of who we hired

David Dukes, a Clemson trustee, is working on the case for the Nelson Mullins Riley and Scarborough firm. David is a Nationally recognized trial attorney.

Also listed is Charles Turner of the Willson Jones Carter and Baxley firm.

And then there's Ropes and Gray of Boston, with John Bueker and William Davison working on the case.

side piece hahaha … in terms of football attendance and viewership we would be around 4th in the BIG… appreciate the Rutgers and Maryland laugh

 

[DustyMoore]

One programs “comfortable with mediocrity” is another programs commitment to each other. Clemson and FSU’s actions will hasten the demise of the ACC and put significant strain on the sport’s viability.

ie. Culturally aligned as dumb and selfish

My comment regarding affiliates being comfortable with mediocrity we’re not in reference to remaining within the conference.

The statement was specific to schools not taking the needed steps by way of investment in needed infrastructure changes in order to field more competitive teams, put fans in stadiums / maximizing the fan experience, and most importantly… increase TV viewership.

The schools I was referring to specifically are Duke, Wake Forest, Boston College, Georgia Tech, Virginia and to some extent, North Carolina and even Miami but they have their
Moments.

The biggest offender in my opinion of the bunch is Georgia Tech who can literally recruit nearly their entire roster within metro Atlanta and field an extremely competitive team within the conference. Yet they are what they are…

This is not an observation based on recent history. My rub with them dates back to long before Cuss and Pitt joined. A 10 minute search on Google regarding those programs historical revenue and expenditures by sport, recruiting budgets, coaches salaries, etc will validate my comment about their comfort with mediocrity.

A high tide raises all ships… and college football in America is a tsunami when you compare its revenue against all other sports combined.

 

[TheCusian]

My comment regarding affiliates being comfortable with mediocrity we’re not in reference to remaining within the conference.

The statement was specific to schools not taking the needed steps by way of investment in needed infrastructure changes in order to field more competitive teams, put fans in stadiums / maximizing the fan experience, and most importantly… increase TV viewership.

The schools I was referring to specifically are Duke, Wake Forest, Boston College, Georgia Tech, Virginia and to some extent, North Carolina and even Miami but they have their
Moments.

The biggest offender in my opinion of the bunch is Georgia Tech who can literally recruit nearly their entire roster within metro Atlanta and field an extremely competitive team within the conference. Yet they are what they are…

This is not an observation based on recent history. My rub with them dates back to long before Cuss and Pitt joined. A 10 minute search on Google regarding those programs historical revenue and expenditures by sport, recruiting budgets, coaches salaries, etc will validate my comment about their comfort with mediocrity.

A high tide raises all ships… and college football in America is a tsunami when you compare its revenue against all other sports combined.

Fair points.

I’m not sure what the right thing to do is for Clemson. The truth is we’re seeing what happens when there is no leadership at the very top looking out for the sport itself.

The SEC and B1G getting in a room together was a good step. Then choosing to try to rig the playoff selection process to hard wire success is an example of the selfish anti-competitive place this is all headed. It’s a bad idea that will kill viewership. (“But we’ll get more helmet games with giant fanbases” will work for a bit until people realize how gamed the system is.)

Instead of building up fanbases in areas where the sport has struggled recently, the current reality strangles the life out of them and leaves them vulnerable. Do the lessons Clemson used to build its empire get shared with its conference brethren?

 

[kcsu]

They have crazy, insecure SEC wannabee fans…the administration has to pacify them

Bingo we have a winner. These schools athletic departments are run by boosters. The ADs are not exactly puppets but close. I have a business partner whos entire family going back generations have gone to Auburn. He is an insider who gives a substantial amount of money. It is absolutely bs crazy how powerful these boosters are. Some of the stories he has told me especially about the coach they hired from Boise

 

[Orangeman]

Fair points.

I’m not sure what the right thing to do is for Clemson. The truth is we’re seeing what happens when there is no leadership at the very top looking out for the sport itself.

The SEC and B1G getting in a room together was a good step. Then choosing to try to rig the playoff selection process to hard wire success is an example of the selfish anti-competitive place this is all headed. It’s a bad idea that will kill viewership. (“But we’ll get more helmet games with giant fanbases” will work for a bit until people realize how gamed the system is.)

Instead of building up fanbases in areas where the sport has struggled recently, the current reality strangles the life out of them and leaves them vulnerable. Do the lessons Clemson used to build its empire get shared with its conference brethren?

Exactly. The NFL is successful for reasons. These people are operating in the exact opposite manner of those reasons, and it will have deleterious affects.

 

[gbo]

I love how everyone is speaking in absolutes with such certainty. None of us have any clue how this is going to end...

 

[SU94]

side piece hahaha … in terms of football attendance and viewership we would be around 4th in the BIG… appreciate the Rutgers and Maryland laugh

I was not alluding to TV ratings. I was alluding to influence within your conference because you told us that you were tired of decisions being predicated on hoops (which was a fair accusation made toward the ACC in about 2004).

And for a guy who (a few posts ago) was exposing the virtues of cultural alignment with FSU, I simply cannot wait for you to tell me about the multitude of similarities that I don't see between Clemson and B10 steadies like Minnesota, Oregon and Purdue.

Dusty ... you just don't know how good you have it. Not that the ACC is without flaw (it is certainly not), but what you're pining for is not going to serve your school well in the long term. The money gap between Clemson and the SEC has not held you back the last 15 years. And there is no reason it has to in the future.

The allure of sporadic matchups with Michigan, Ohio State and USC will wear off in a surprisingly short amount of time. And you'll be left wanting for the old days, when you could drive to a road game at NC State or Tech. You don't want 20 hours of travel (round trip) to go to Eugene, Oregon. You don't want to watch your Tigers play on Dec. 2nd in Minneapolis in a 31F freezing rain. The extra millions is not worth it for a quality university like Clemson that should practice aspirational economics as opposed to simple money grabs, logistics be damned. Your school has NOTHING in common with the (dying) upper midwest, ... for Clemson is neither upper, nor midwestern.

Syracuse left the Big East and it has never been quite the same. We had to in order to keep competitive football (the Big East was on its death bed). Our difficult decision was made with survival in mind. Yours is not. Yet the consequences of such an ill-fated decision will resonate for decades and change the very fabric of who Clemson is and what it represents.

 

[baggerbob]

I love how everyone is speaking in absolutes with such certainty. None of us have any clue how this is going to end...

Unfortunately you are right, but eventually when you cut out large areas of the population, the money will dry up.
Who really wants to tune in Mississippi versus Mississippi St, or Iowa versus Illinois, or Indiana?
No one in the Northeast, or Atlantic Coast cares about those teams.

 

[richmondcuse03]

I was not alluding to TV ratings. I was alluding to influence within your conference because you told us that you were tired of decisions being predicated on hoops (which was a fair accusation made toward the ACC in about 2004).

And for a guy who (a few posts ago) was exposing the virtues of cultural alignment with FSU, I simply cannot wait for you to tell me about the multitude of similarities that I don't see between Clemson and B10 steadies like Minnesota, Oregon and Purdue.

Dusty ... you just don't know how good you have it. Not that the ACC is without flaw (it is certainly not), but what you're pining for is not going to serve your school well in the long term. The money gap between Clemson and the SEC has not held you back the last 15 years. And there is no reason it has to in the future.

The allure of sporadic matchups with Michigan, Ohio State and USC will wear off in a surprisingly short amount of time. And you'll be left wanting for the old days, when you could drive to a road game at NC State or Tech. You don't want 20 hours of travel (round trip) to go to Eugene, Oregon. You don't want to watch your Tigers play on Dec. 2nd in Minneapolis in a 31F freezing rain. The extra millions is not worth it for a quality university like Clemson that should practice aspirational economics as opposed to simple money grabs, logistics be damned. Your school has NOTHING in common with the (dying) upper midwest for Clemson is neither upper, nor midwestern.

Syracuse left the Big East and it has never been quite the same. We had to in order to keep competitive football (the Big East was on its death bed). Our difficult decision was made with survival in mind. Yours is not. Yet the consequences of such an ill-fated decision will resonate for decades and change the very fabric of who Clemson is and what it represents.

I agree...but the money gap is growing substantially over next 10 years. The difference was minor by comparison over the past 10-15 years. I get their argument about being left behind. I just dont agree with the legal arguments.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Fair point on FSU’s internal issues… they have an odd structure with how their booster system is set up in relation to the AD. I believe either sports illustrated or ESPN put out a very in-depth article on it a few years ago and they do have a significant amount of issues with their “alignment.”

We do not have that issue internally and from the boosters to the board to prez to AD, etc… you won’t see anyone step out of turn. Example UNC with their board member speaking out against their AD.

I’ve genuinely not looked at their legal team but can speak to the legitimacy of who we hired

David Dukes, a Clemson trustee, is working on the case for the Nelson Mullins Riley and Scarborough firm. David is a Nationally recognized trial attorney.

Also listed is Charles Turner of the Willson Jones Carter and Baxley firm.

And then there's Ropes and Gray of Boston, with John Bueker and William Davison working on the case.

side piece hahaha … in terms of football attendance and viewership we would be around 4th in the BIG… appreciate the Rutgers and Maryland laugh

Those charts reinforce that a lot of schools in conferences are outliers, including quite a bit of the Big 10. If it's really about everyone getting what they deserve, half the Big 10 should get a lower distribution too. That's why I think this giant game will leave some schools very disappointed despite the conference they currently sit in.

Nobody is safe except for the top 15-20 programs. And brand value / subscribers will ultimately matter the most, which favors large universities.

 

[Qbobby]

I love how everyone is speaking in absolutes with such certainty. None of us have any clue how this is going to end...

Oh, I know. I know so much. But with your attitude I'm not sharing with anyone.