Coach Search Options after Autry

[RF2044]

What are Siena's numbers compared to the rest of the MAAC? I don't know how to look that up but I'll try.

You can check manually. Here are the results:

Merrimack 177
Saint Peters 252
Siena 180
Quinnipiac 217
Marist 199
Mt St Mary's 273
Fairfield 260
Iona 257
Sacred Heart 294
Manhattan 329
Niagara 337
Canisus 342
Rider 357

 

[Acesn8s]

Right. So Hodgson went there because, it appears, they have a good player compensation budget. Apparently it had nothing to do with the image PC has as a BE also ran or years of program dysfunction.

Maybe some vague notion of "public image" isn't so important after all.

That is nuts, PC just finished at the bottom of the conference, no major recruits coming in, if English was still the coach how do you think they would do, by the way they spent 9 million bucks this year in NIL more then Syracuse by all accounts. Now look at the press they are getting? Public image of PC changes immediately when they hire maybe the best mid major coach in the country especially when they are giving him maybe 13 million a year in NIl. What would our perception be if we brought Red back lol.

 

[Cuseball]

So according to Samurai if he’s to be believed it’s between Gmac, Skinn, Holloway and Schertz (assuming he’s one of the mystery candidates) and possibly one other

View attachment 261539

I would take GMAC over both skin and Holloway. Schertz I would take over GMAC if we are assuming NIL is comparable

 

[MGP]

Really need a morsel soon from one of our trusted. These p**sing matches are getting so tedious...

 

[Scooch]

That is nuts, PC just finished at the bottom of the conference, no major recruits coming in, if English was still the coach how do you think they would do, by the way they spent 9 million bucks this year in NIL more then Syracuse by all accounts. Now look at the press they are getting? Public image of PC changes immediately when they hire maybe the best mid major coach in the country especially when they are giving him maybe 13 million a year in NIl. What would our perception be if we brought Red back lol.

People are saying that SU is unattractive because of our “public image”. I’m saying that up until 45 minutes ago PC’s public image was dog water.

“Public image” is only as important as the bag you give your next HC. It’s not a deterrent to hiring a HC.

 

[OrangeFoo]

I agree and that would probably be better for both sides.

Not if the alternative is skinn or holloway

 

[TrickySU]

You can check manually. Here are the results:

Merrimack 177
Saint Peters 252
Siena 180
Quinnipiac 217
Marist 199
Mt St Mary's 273
Fairfield 260
Iona 257
Sacred Heart 294
Manhattan 329
Niagara 337
Canisus 342
Rider 357

Siena also had the highest rated offensive efficiency in the MAAC. Only school in the conference in the Top 200.

Despite all the injuries.

 

[RF2044]

How good your conference is matters. Miami (OH) went undefeated this year and barely cracked the top 100. UNDEFEATED in the MAC barely gets Top 100.

Siena would’ve had to beat conference opponents by 20 each game to maybe crack the Top 100.

But sure, let’s compare ratings for non-peer schools.

Why is that hard to understand? It’s unreasonable and nearly impossible to get a school like Siena that high. The talent level doesn’t warrant a high rating. That’s the entire point.

And yet, Saint Mary's and Santa Clara from the WCC are #27 and #37 nationally in the KenPom rankings.

Grand Canyon from the MWC is #57.

McNeese State is #67.

Belmont is #72.

And I could go on and on. Many of those schools are above more promient, P4 schools who didn't perform as well on the quantiative inputs that go into KenPom, despite playing in more prestigious conferences.

It is all relevant. Sure, Siena plays a bunch of dud schools in their conference. But that is also an opportunity for them to kick them around and raise their profile. If Siena played a bunch of higher rated programs instead, their KenPom number would be a lot worse. So it works both ways.

Also, let's dispense with the notion that the list determines who's a "better" coach or not. But it IS informative in terms of order of magnitude.

Example -- when I see Saint Louis is #33, there's an attribution you can make about how they play relative to Syracuse, who is #85 on the list. That we play in the ACC versus them playing in the A10 is irrelevant.

 

[RF2044]

Siena also had the highest rated offensive efficiency in the MAAC. Only school in the conference in the Top 200.

I like offensive efficiency numbers, and many of the advanced metrics even MORE than KenPom.

Last week, I posted a bunch of USF metrics, and asked Siena fans to post how they rated on those same indicators. Noone did.

 

[nyucuse]

Whoaaaa

Was there any pre-existing relationship here?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Samurai has to be Jeff Goodman.

 

[Cusean]

That is nuts, PC just finished at the bottom of the conference, no major recruits coming in, if English was still the coach how do you think they would do, by the way they spent 9 million bucks this year in NIL more then Syracuse by all accounts. Now look at the press they are getting? Public image of PC changes immediately when they hire maybe the best mid major coach in the country especially when they are giving him maybe 13 million a year in NIl. What would our perception be if we brought Red back lol.

Hodgson is a great coach. But he’s is in no way the best mid major coach in the country. We’ve overvalued him a ton here.

 

[FireballPhil]

I think there has been to much pressure put on everyone in regards to NIL. Let's get real for a second. We don't need 13, 15, 20 million for NIL budget per year. Look at the teams in the tournament, and look at what their NIL budgets were. 5 million on average. Yes the higher number let's you buy the best individual players on the market, but basketball isn't an individual sport. It is a team sport. Which is why a coach is so important. I am 100% convinced our team this year, with better coaching, would have been in the tournament. We have seen flashes of great plays from multiple players, they just never meshed together. Take a look at Iowa State for example. Everyone wants their coach based on what he has done since he arrived at Iowa State, but has done that on a 5 million dollar NIL.

Gerry and Brian to me have always been on roughly the same level, newer coaches who have shown success, although with very limited data to go on. That is not a great way to make a decision and given the state of the program is a huge risk. Neither have sustained success to show they SHOULD be successful where ever they go. This in no way means they won't be successful, it only means they are highly unproven. Either was/is a huge risk, no matter the pedigree behind them.

This is why a coach like Josh is so very important to hire. Note the word like. There are many coaches on lower levels that have this sustained success and would a bit more of a sure thing than either Brian or Gerry would be. Buyers remorse is a real thing, and we are not in a spot where we can realistically take a chance on a largely unproven commodity. Unfortunately, that list of current D1 coaches is very small. When you look at the list of coaches by winning percentage, most have been locked in to their schools for a number of years and is unlikely to leave. Perhaps Will Wade from McNeese. I would also try Sean Miller from Xavier, just to see if he might want to move to the ACC.. Or Randy Bennett from St. Mary's. Then there are D2 coaches that have had multiple years of success. They may at this point in time be better options than Gerry or Brian.

Bottom line is there are coaches out there, we just need to find them. NIL needs to take backseat for now. Get success back in Syracuse DNA, get butts back in seats for games. The key to long term success will be coach first, players second.

 

[PhatOrange]

Right. So Hodgson went there because, it appears, they have a good player compensation budget. Apparently it had nothing to do with the image PC has as a BE also ran or years of program dysfunction.

Maybe some vague notion of "public image" isn't so important after all.

Providence is a joke. Imo, if BH was a future coaching star he’d be taking a better job at a higher profile program. GT in the heart of Atlanta for one.

 

[TrickySU]

And yet, Saint Mary's and Santa Clara from the WCC are #27 and #37 nationally in the KenPom rankings.

Grand Canyon from the MWC is #57.

McNeese State is #67.

Belmont is #72.

And I could go on and on. Many of those schools are above more promient, P4 schools who didn't perform as well on the quantiative inputs that go into KenPom, despite playing in more prestigious conferences.

It is all relevant. Sure, Siena plays a bunch of dud schools in their conference. But that is also an opportunity for them to kick them around and raise their profile. If Siena played a bunch of higher rated programs instead, their KenPom number would be a lot worse. So it works both ways.

Also, let's dispense with the notion that the list determines who's a "better" coach or not. But it IS informative in terms of order of magnitude.

Example -- when I see Saint Louis is #33, there's an attribution you can make about how they play relative to Syracuse, who is #85 on the list. That we play in the ACC versus them playing in the A10 is irrelevant.

You’re not understanding conferences matter. The talent that schools in all of those conferences are getting is better. They are all better teams. Siena isn’t getting that talent.

So why would you compare Siena to teams with better talent?

I want to know what a coach is doing with the talent they have. Siena relative to peer schools was best in its conference and above average among schools in peer conferences. That’s the point. Not all mid majors are created equal. You understand that?

Again, where would you expect Siena to be rated? Give a number.

You’re telling me USF is rated higher than Siena? Duh, they have better players!!!! It’s not hard to understand.

 

[BigNastyJon]

Samurai has to be Jeff Goodman.

That would be hilarious, and I would give Goodman some credit for the great troll job

 

[Mr. M]

I think there has been to much pressure put on everyone in regards to NIL. Let's get real for a second. We don't need 13, 15, 20 million for NIL budget per year. Look at the teams in the tournament, and look at what their NIL budgets were. 5 million on average. Yes the higher number let's you buy the best individual players on the market, but basketball isn't an individual sport. It is a team sport. Which is why a coach is so important. I am 100% convinced our team this year, with better coaching, would have been in the tournament. We have seen flashes of great plays from multiple players, they just never meshed together. Take a look at Iowa State for example. Everyone wants their coach based on what he has done since he arrived at Iowa State, but has done that on a 5 million dollar NIL.

Gerry and Brian to me have always been on roughly the same level, newer coaches who have shown success, although with very limited data to go on. That is not a great way to make a decision and given the state of the program is a huge risk. Neither have sustained success to show they SHOULD be successful where ever they go. This in no way means they won't be successful, it only means they are highly unproven. Either was/is a huge risk, no matter the pedigree behind them.

This is why a coach like Josh is so very important to hire. Note the word like. There are many coaches on lower levels that have this sustained success and would a bit more of a sure thing than either Brian or Gerry would be. Buyers remorse is a real thing, and we are not in a spot where we can realistically take a chance on a largely unproven commodity. Unfortunately, that list of current D1 coaches is very small. When you look at the list of coaches by winning percentage, most have been locked in to their schools for a number of years and is unlikely to leave. Perhaps Will Wade from McNeese. I would also try Sean Miller from Xavier, just to see if he might want to move to the ACC.. Or Randy Bennett from St. Mary's. Then there are D2 coaches that have had multiple years of success. They may at this point in time be better options than Gerry or Brian.

Bottom line is there are coaches out there, we just need to find them. NIL needs to take backseat for now. Get success back in Syracuse DNA, get butts back in seats for games. The key to long term success will be coach first, players second.

Wade is at nc state

 

[721Comstock]

You can check manually. Here are the results:

Merrimack 177
Saint Peters 252
Siena 180
Quinnipiac 217
Marist 199
Mt St Mary's 273
Fairfield 260
Iona 257
Sacred Heart 294
Manhattan 329
Niagara 337
Canisus 342
Rider 357

WOOT!!! GMac coached the 2nd tallest midget* in the MAAC!!

* Sorry - “vertically challenged program”


what are we waiting for??
sign him up yesterday!!

 

[RF2044]

Hodgson is a great coach. But he’s is in no way the best mid major coach in the country. We’ve overvalued him a ton here.

I am not pro-Hodgson. I didn't like him for a long time, when his name was discussed here.

But when you evaluate how his team performed, there was a lot to like. You are what the numbers say you are, and USF posted some impressive results. That can't be disputed, and it isn't offset by a loss to Louisville.

And again, to be clear, I'm not a Hodgson stan.

What I am is a Syracuse fan, who is tired of subpar play. What was attractive about a candidate like Hodgson was the potential for his proven system to translate up, and change how our team performs. I am quite confident it will, because we see it successful in the SEC at Alabama. We had something like 27 double-digit losses under Autry. Wouldn't it be nice instead to be in the top 10 nationally in offensive rebounding, #7 in 2p FG%, #1 in free throws made and attempted [both]?

So is he the best? Don't know about that. Scherz was almost universally seen as the top mid major head coach, and with good reason. But Hodgson was pretty good too -- I won't let sour grapes stop me from acknowledging that [even though I hope he flops at PC].

 

[Cuse_NYC]

Not if the alternative is skinn or holloway

Holloway, I’d be pissed but could tolerate. Skinn would be boycott the program

 

[TheHaze315]

When I interview people and one of the things they say is “I’m a hard worker”. I always want to say, “yeah, no crap, so is everyone else

100%, pet peeve of mine, stating bare minimum qualifications when asked why you should be tasked with a big job. If the reasoning behind wanting Gmac is bare minimum qualifications like “Having his guys ready to go” or “His kids play hard for him” what does that say about his candidacy? I love Gmac, I just do not think this is the right time for him to be the Syracuse head coach.

 

[TrickySU]

I like offensive efficiency numbers, and many of the advanced metrics even MORE than KenPom.

Last week, I posted a bunch of USF metrics, and asked Siena fans to post how they rated on those same indicators. Noone did.

Again, what are you proving? USF has better players than Siena? Yes, I agree 100%. Surprise, the metrics back it up.

So USF has better players, but you expect a coach to magically get the worse talented team to have better metrics?

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think there has been to much pressure put on everyone in regards to NIL. Let's get real for a second. We don't need 13, 15, 20 million for NIL budget per year. Look at the teams in the tournament, and look at what their NIL budgets were. 5 million on average. Yes the higher number let's you buy the best individual players on the market, but basketball isn't an individual sport. It is a team sport. Which is why a coach is so important. I am 100% convinced our team this year, with better coaching, would have been in the tournament. We have seen flashes of great plays from multiple players, they just never meshed together. Take a look at Iowa State for example. Everyone wants their coach based on what he has done since he arrived at Iowa State, but has done that on a 5 million dollar NIL.

Gerry and Brian to me have always been on roughly the same level, newer coaches who have shown success, although with very limited data to go on. That is not a great way to make a decision and given the state of the program is a huge risk. Neither have sustained success to show they SHOULD be successful where ever they go. This in no way means they won't be successful, it only means they are highly unproven. Either was/is a huge risk, no matter the pedigree behind them.

This is why a coach like Josh is so very important to hire. Note the word like. There are many coaches on lower levels that have this sustained success and would a bit more of a sure thing than either Brian or Gerry would be. Buyers remorse is a real thing, and we are not in a spot where we can realistically take a chance on a largely unproven commodity. Unfortunately, that list of current D1 coaches is very small. When you look at the list of coaches by winning percentage, most have been locked in to their schools for a number of years and is unlikely to leave. Perhaps Will Wade from McNeese. I would also try Sean Miller from Xavier, just to see if he might want to move to the ACC.. Or Randy Bennett from St. Mary's. Then there are D2 coaches that have had multiple years of success. They may at this point in time be better options than Gerry or Brian.

Bottom line is there are coaches out there, we just need to find them. NIL needs to take backseat for now. Get success back in Syracuse DNA, get butts back in seats for games. The key to long term success will be coach first, players second.

I read somewhere yesterday we were top 3 in NIL of teams not in the tournament with Indiana and Georgetown. All has beens. We can’t just spend our way out of this mess. We need a culture change.

 

[RF2044]

You’re not understanding conferences matter. The talent that schools in all of those conferences are getting is better. They are all better teams. Siena isn’t getting that talent.

So why would you compare Siena to teams with better talent?

I want to know what a coach is doing with the talent they have. Siena relative to peer schools was best in its conference and above average among schools in peer conferences. That’s the point. Not all mid majors are created equal. You understand that?

Again, where would you expect Siena to be rated? Give a number.

You’re telling me USF is rated higher than Siena? Duh, they have better players!!!! It’s not hard to understand.

I give up.

It is Sunday morning, and I'm not interested in getting into an argument. I think I'll just chalk this up to "you can lead a horse to water" and agree to disagree.

 

[DoubleDee]

People are saying that SU is unattractive because of our “public image”. I’m saying that up until 45 minutes ago PC’s public image was dog water.

“Public image” is only as important as the bag you give your next HC. It’s not a deterrent to hiring a HC.

*see Indiana Football