Coach Search Options after Autry

[phil77]

Agree 100%. Keep in mind that Odom has an outstanding system, and is considered a top X's and O's coach. He was the coach of that program that upset number one UVA as a number 16 seed, the first team to ever accomplish that.

Besides, there are very good programs in all conferences, at all levels, that perform well and execute well on both sides of the ball, without massive nil budgets.

I think some of us have lost sight of that.

Give me Odom and our current NIL and we would be in the tournament 95% of the time and top 5 in ACC.

 

[wiCuse]

Agree 100%. Keep in mind that Odom has an outstanding system, and is considered a top X's and O's coach. He was the coach of that program that upset number one UVA as a number 16 seed, the first team to ever accomplish that.

Besides, there are very good programs in all conferences, at all levels, that perform well and execute well on both sides of the ball, without massive nil budgets.

I think some of us have lost sight of that.

Totally agree. We need a guy that can coach if the NIL budget isn't going to be top tier. It's not the end of the world.

Coach Cal is a terrible in game coach, but has big time NIL. It's hard to have both NIL and coaching. It sounds like we need to prioritize X's and O's from what I'm gathering.

 

[cusefan88]

With a coherent system, it will be easier for Kline/scouting to find the right players.

 

[RF2044]

Give me Odom and our current NIL and we would be in the tournament 95% of the time and top 5 in ACC.

Right. Because a competent coach who excels at teaching the game, and putting players in the best possible position to succeed, is going to coax a lot more productivity out of players than a guy who is at the bottom of P4 conferences in terms of his coaching acumen.

Systems are important. Teaching the game is important. Execution is important.

Purdue is another example. They aren't lighting it up with McD's All-Americans every year. And yet, they are in the top 10 seemingly every year. Why? Because they have a good system, and they get system fits, then coach them up.

What's our system?

 

[phil77]

Right. Because a competent coach who excels at teaching the game, and putting players in the best possible position to succeed, is going to coax a lot more productivity out of players than a guy who is at the bottom of P4 conferences in terms of his coaching acumen.

Systems are important. Teaching the game is important. Execution is important.

Purdue is another example. They aren't lighting it up with McD's All-Americans every year. And yet, they are in the top 10 seemingly every year. Why? Because they have a good system, and they get system fits, then coach them up.

What's our system?

Our system = OrangeStandard

 

[TommyA13]

With a coherent system, it will be easier for Kline/scouting to find the right players.

I hope Kline is retained even with the eventual coaching staff overhaul.

 

[phil77]

Right. Because a competent coach who excels at teaching the game, and putting players in the best possible position to succeed, is going to coax a lot more productivity out of players than a guy who is at the bottom of P4 conferences in terms of his coaching acumen.

Systems are important. Teaching the game is important. Execution is important.

Purdue is another example. They aren't lighting it up with McD's All-Americans every year. And yet, they are in the top 10 seemingly every year. Why? Because they have a good system, and they get system fits, then coach them up.

What's our system?

There are so many examples of this...Watching Iowa State right now.

Spend the money get the best coach worry about the NIL stuff later.

 

[Bayside44]

There are so many examples of this...Watching Iowa State right now.

Spend the money get the best coach worry about the NIL stuff later.

If the googles are right their fund gives them 5 mil. Then they get a piece of the 20.5 mil rev share. And slap a million on top from Vegas.

 

[phil77]

If the googles are right their fund gives them 5 mil. Then they get a piece of the 20.5 mil rev share. And slap a million on top from Vegas.

And I have been told our fund gave more than 5 million this year. We will also get a piece of 20.5 mil rev share and we went to Vegas as well...

 

[Bayside44]

And I have been told our fund gave more than 5 million this year. We will also get a piece of 20.5 mil rev share and we went to Vegas as well...

My point is Iowa State is well funded. UVa for that matter too, 8-12 mil plus rev share.

I don't think our money is our problem this season, we had plenty to have better results. (not sure that we only gave Fran 15 but doesn't really matter)

 

[phil77]

My point is Iowa State is well funded. UVa for that matter too, 8-12 mil plus rev share.

I don't think our money is our problem this season, we had plenty to have better results. (not sure that we only gave Fran 15 but doesn't really matter)

Right, I agree, I am saying we can't compare ourselves to the teams like Duke and these big SEC schools spending 20 plus million, all that junk. We will never be that ever, but teams like Virginia and Iowa State etc there is no reason why we can't be like them. Constantly a winning program bringing in quality players to run a quality system. Every once in a while, have a big year when the stars align, and then every once in a while, have a bad season.

But most seasons should be top 25 and in the tournament, 4/5 seed. We should be able to do that with our current NIL. Just need to hire the correct Xs and Os coach to bring in a system that will work.

Can't miss on the coach or we are dead period because we can't spend our way out of it in NIL. So we can't afford to take a chance on a non-name coach or some off-the-wall coach that nobody else is looking at. Take the list of top available coaches for P4 jobs and go down the list. Can't try to get cute and be the smartest one in the room.

 

[rrlbees]

Alternate perspective: my opinion is that any confident coach is going to think that they are going to turn things around. And given that the program has been on the downturn, it isn't reasonable to think that we're going to be at the top of our game in terms of NIL funding. Any up and coming coach is going to come in here with an insane amount of confidence in their capabilities, believing that they have what it takes to improve performance, drive ticket sales upward, increase fan base engagement and support, which will in turn lead to increased NIL and much higher ticket / gate proceeds to further help feed the beast.

I don't think it is going to be the other way around, where a coach is going to demand the NIL money up front, and decline on that basis alone. I think it is much more likely that someone's going to look at our tradition, see that we have the biggest arena in collegiate basketball, and have an insane amount of confidence in their ability to pack the dome and turn things around. That doesn't mean that our opportunity is for EVERYBODY, or that there might be some coaches who would eschew the northeast out of preference for jobs in other parts of the country.

But I'm guessing that any candidate with the chops might look at the current state, see that we're in the top 5 in NIL within the ACC conference, and think that they can work with that by providing a better on-court product than what we're seeing under Autry. There's more than one way to skin a cat; out-spending everybody in terms of NIL is one strategy, but it is CERTAINLY NOT the only way to be successful.

I think people get locked into these false dichotomies of only being black and white, A versus B, when the answer is probably in the middle:

If a coach can build it, the fans will come. And so will NIL $$$'s.

Bottom line is one of the first questions coaches will ask about is NIL. I beee resources to be successful.

 

[rrlbees]

Time for Syracuse University to step up and financially support its N$L if it wants to become a big time competitor in college sports.

Um no. NIL doesn’t come from the school.

 

[RF2044]

Bottom line is one of the first questions coaches will ask about is NIL. I beee resources to be successful.

And that will get answered satisfactorily.

If anything, the fan disengagement / support has been the RESULT of the attrocious product on the court. Not because of systemic inability to provide support.

The coaching liabilty holding our program back needs to be fixed. And hopefully it will be, once this season is over.

And this time, let's actually identify and hire the best candidate, not the past of least resistance candidate because of artificial constraints.

 

[Bayside44]

Right, I agree, I am saying we can't compare ourselves to the teams like Duke and these big SEC schools spending 20 plus million, all that junk. We will never be that ever, but teams like Virginia and Iowa State etc there is no reason why we can't be like them. Constantly a winning program bringing in quality players to run a quality system. Every once in a while, have a big year when the stars align, and then every once in a while, have a bad season.

But most seasons should be top 25 and in the tournament, 4/5 seed. We should be able to do that with our current NIL. Just need to hire the correct Xs and Os coach to bring in a system that will work.

Can't miss on the coach or we are dead period because we can't spend our way out of it in NIL. So we can't afford to take a chance on a non-name coach or some off-the-wall coach that nobody else is looking at. Take the list of top available coaches for P4 jobs and go down the list. Can't try to get cute and be the smartest one in the room.

We have to do better - not a ton better but better with funding. There are only so many kids that can buy their way on the team. I don't know if Mike Waters is right or wrong but would rather be 5-6 than 10-11 going forward with the $.

And SU has to provide whatever infrastructure the coach will ask for (heck look at what John Harbaugh did) Your list is interesting, but none of those people are going to have people who've never given tripping over themselves for the New Mexico coach, for instance (I'm sure he's a good coach). I like Tony Skinn just for nothing else if he can bring Kory Mincy - who would be the best guard we've had in a decade and would crush it in the ACC. Win fast.

 

[TampaLaker]

Right but that cash comes from a donor or donors not a university fund. Doesn't really matter I guess as my point has always been that number is not sustainable for us and many others.

The 20.5m is from the university funds not donors. Remember, that 20.5m is for ALL sports and the lion's share will go to football.

 

[phil77]

We have to do better - not a ton better but better with funding. There are only so many kids that can buy their way on the team. I don't know if Mike Waters is right or wrong but would rather be 5-6 than 10-11 going forward with the $.

And SU has to provide whatever infrastructure the coach will ask for (heck look at what John Harbaugh did) Your list is interesting, but none of those people are going to have people who've never given tripping over themselves for the New Mexico coach, for instance (I'm sure he's a good coach). I like Tony Skinn just for nothing else if he can bring Kory Mincy - who would be the best guard we've had in a decade and would crush it in the ACC. Win fast.

Olen is a way better coach than Tony Skinn. If we could get Olen that would be an amazing hire. He will be the second best coach hired this cycle and will get a P4 job at worst, Arizona State.

240-119 career record at UC San Diego, multiple conference championships, multiple NCAA tournament bid and multiple tournament upsets. 2X Big West Coach of the Year. First year at New Mexico 18-4 .

If our local media and university can't sell, that is a Syracuse problem. If the casual fan can't get excited about having a proven winner come with proven winning system then that is a them problem.

 

[rrlbees]

And that will get answered satisfactorily.

You don’t know that. Every candidate is different on what they think they’ll need to be successful.

 

[RF2044]

Olen is a way better coach than Tony Skinn. If we could get Olen that would be an amazing hire. He will be the second best coach hired this cycle and will get a P4 job at worst, Arizona State.

240-119 career record at UC San Diego, multiple conference championships, multiple NCAA tournament bid and multiple tournament upsets. 2X Big West Coach of the Year. First year at New Mexico 18-4 .

If our local media and university can't sell, that is a Syracuse problem. If the casual fan can't get excited about having a proven winner come with proven winning system then that is a them problem.

I disagree with your categorization of Skinn. That man is a stud.

 

[phil77]

I disagree with your categorization of Skinn. That man is a stud.

I dont love anyone without a true offensive system. We can do worse but he isn't near the top of my list.

 

[RF2044]

You don’t know that. Every candidate is different on what they think they’ll need to be successful.

Of course I know that. We're in the top 5 in the ACC. Our NIL isn't the problem.

But if a coach is looking for the type of resources that the SEC has, or that a rogue donor [like Phil Knight or the Walmart kid at Arkansas] can singlehandedly provide, then yeah -- we're not going to be able to match that.

But I don't think the guys we'll be targeting will be making such outlandish demands. A Pitino might. Others might, to move from a situation where they are entrenched at a successful P4 job already to Syracuse. But we're probably going to target a guy from a lower conference looking to make the jump upwards.

 

[Bayside44]

Olen is a way better coach than Tony Skinn. If we could get Olen that would be an amazing hire. He will be the second best coach hired this cycle and will get a P4 job at worst, Arizona State.

240-119 career record at UC San Diego, multiple conference championships, multiple NCAA tournament bid and multiple tournament upsets. 2X Big West Coach of the Year. First year at New Mexico 18-4 .

If our local media and university can't sell, that is a Syracuse problem. If the casual fan can't get excited about having a proven winner come with proven winning system then that is a them problem.

He's impressive, also a guy rooted in the west and the ASU job is going to be right there. If you're him why would you come here with that choice. Jerrod Calhoun might make more sense.

My thing with Skinn is bringing a top flight player. IF he didn't then whatever.

 

[phil77]

He's impressive, also a guy rooted in the west and the ASU job is going to be right there. If you're him why would you come here with that choice. Jerrod Calhoun might make more sense.

My thing with Skinn is bringing a top flight player. IF he didn't then whatever.

If we had a choice between Olen, Calhoun, or Skinn I would not pick Skinn because he has a player that might come with him for 1 season. I am picking the best coach I can. For me personally, Skinn would be 3rd on that list. I just can't get behind someone who doesn't have an offensive system.

I do agree that Olen stays out west you brought him up

 

[23Zone]

At this point I'd be happy with a hedgehog as our next coach, anything is better than Red

 

[Bayside44]

If we had a choice between Olen, Calhoun, or Skinn I would not pick Skinn because he has a player that might come with him for 1 season. I am picking the best coach I can. For me personally, Skinn would be 3rd on that list. I just can't get behind someone who doesn't have an offensive system.

I do agree that Olen stays out west you brought him up

I'll say this - went to the game the other night where Mincy got hurt so that was a bit of an outlier, the ball moves with a purpose, Mincy is hyper efficient (the advanced stats guys here would be in heaven), constant off ball motion, the right guys are shooting in the right spots, generally good on the TOs, and they close really well.