Coaching Candidates (My List)

[SwagSocks]

I don't think coaches (like Few and McDermott) who have had much more success at their schools than Syracuse the last 10 years, leaving for a chance of scenery. They were part of elevating their modern day brands beyond that of what Syracuse is now.

Correct. Sad reality is Cuse is not an attractive job.

 

[tptcuse]

Correct. Sad reality is Cuse is not an attractive job.

I’m probably naive but I refuse to believe that.

 

[orange79]

Correct. Sad reality is Cuse is not an attractive job.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I think the mid-major route is where will we have to go, and in the end if we get the right guy its probably a better alternative than a retread from a major program looking to get back in.

The right mid-major coach probably is more effective in terms of getting the most out of their resources, and to create an identity for the team -- which will still be important here as we are a mid-tier spender in terms of major conference schools. Rather than just acquiring talent with no fit or identity in mind, like we did this year. To get value from our $ spend we will need to have that mindset to create an identity rather than just getting the best player and trying to make it fit.

That being said, I would be concerned how that would play with the donor base. They may be more energized initially by an experienced major hire.

The donor base/NIL has to be a huge part of this.

 

[Jasoncuse]

If we can't afford Red's buyout, just close up the shop.
I mean, he's a first time coach, and an alumnus. How much and how many years could they be paying him for ?

It'd be crazy if he has a buyout that is prohibitive in any way.

 

[jncuse]

I’m probably naive but I refuse to believe that.

The allure of the job has taken a massive hit after the past 10 years.
Brands don't lose all their historical value in 10 years, but they can lose a fair amount of it, as recency is the most important factor.

Doesn't mean the job won't be attractive to some.

People throwing out names like Shaka Smart, Mark Few, and Doug McDermott are totally overvaluing the current value of our brand.

 

[jdubs30]

We have not been good the past decade. But all things considered it’s still probably a top 25 job in the sport. The x-factor is always the cash. I don’t think you can expect a guy like Few/McDermott, but if we are willing to “pay” I think we could have our choice of about 300+ current HCs in the country.

 

[jdubs30]

The allure of the job has taken a massive hit after the past 10 years.
Brands don't lose all their historical value in 10 years, but they can lose a fair amount of it, as recency is the most important factor.

Doesn't mean the job doesn't have elements of attraction.

People throwing out names like Shaka Smart, Mark Few, and Doug McDermott are totally overvaluing the current value of our brand.

We are a sleeping giant still - if you get the right coach in here the Dome will fill with 30K+ and we’d lead the country in attendance again. We can pack MSG/Barclays as good as any fan base in the country. The fan base travelled extremely well, especially when we were good. The ACC is still a big deal. Plenty of great recruits in NY/NJ/PA.

 

[NKR1978]

Correct. Sad reality is Cuse is not an attractive job.

That's nonsense. We're close to major recruiting areas in Philly and NJ/NYC. We have money. Our attendance is still pretty good despite being terrible for a decade. A coach that gets us back in the top 25 will have crowds of 20,000 most nights.

We're Tennessee football. Might be down a bit, but all it's going to take is moving on from the Boeheim era.

 

[Sherman20]

The allure of the job has taken a massive hit after the past 10 years.
Brands don't lose all their historical value in 10 years, but they can lose a fair amount of it, as recency is the most important factor.

Doesn't mean the job won't be attractive to some.

People throwing out names like Shaka Smart, Mark Few, and Doug McDermott are totally overvaluing the current value of our brand.

Agree to disagree with your Syracuse brand observations. And it’s not like we’ve been terrible for 10 years, just not up to our historical standards. That said, Smart, Few and McDermott are not realistic options—unless one of them wants a change of scenery. Smart already left Texas for Marquette after he didn’t meet expectations there, he’s gotten Marquette back on track, and Wisconsin is home, so I don’t see him leaving there. Few is a Gonzaga lifer so that’s not happening either. McDermott turned down Ohio state a few years ago, so I don’t see him going anywhere. We’ll likely have to find the next Scott Drew, Shaka, Nate Oats, Danny Hurley or Dusty May from the mid major ranks. That could very well be someone like Hodgson.

 

[Cuse4Life]

Do coaches want to leave a lesser conference to come to the ACC? It’s so down right now that it’s a weird time. Like no coach is leaving the Big East unless they get a bag to come to Cuse and hope to resurrect the program.

I do think Syracuse is a big time job that can be great again with the right coach and change of culture/philosophy.

I think we need to pony up and try…and if they do make the coaching change, I’ll reinsert my yearly contribution to their NIL which I’ve put exclusively toward Fran.

 

[alphaorange]

Red is apparently making about 3m. So they can pay.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

Red is apparently making about 3m. So they can pay.

$3M doesn't go as far as it used to. Also if we were to poach someone we would likely have to pay at least some of their buyout on top of their salary.

 

[jncuse]

Agree to disagree with your Syracuse brand observations. And it’s not like we’ve been terrible for 10 years, just not up to our historical standards. That said, Smart, Few and McDermott are not realistic options—unless one of them wants a change of scenery. Smart already left Texas for Marquette after he didn’t meet expectations there, he’s gotten Marquette back on track, and Wisconsin is home, so I don’t see him leaving there. Few is a Gonzaga lifer so that’s not happening either. McDermott turned down Ohio state a few years ago, so I don’t see him going anywhere. We’ll likely have to find the next Scott Drew, Shaka, Nate Oats, Danny Hurley or Dusty May from the mid major ranks. That could very well be someone like Hodgson.

I think we ultimately agree on the conclusion that the best road is to find a top candidate who has established success at a mid-major. We are attractive enough for most of those candidates... part of it will come down to fit, luck and what other job openings also are open at the same time we are looking.

I'll still disagree with someone that doesn't think we have taken a large brand hit the last 10 years. We haven't been overly relevant for 10 years, and we have been bad (in terms of major conference schools) for 4 years in a row now. It's not a hole that you can't dig out of with the right coach and system/identity. We see teams like Iowa St yo-yo from good to bad, so a turnaround can happen quick. But the team will be built bacl up on the right coach, the right system, right identity... the brand isn't going to be what build us back up in my view.

 

[NKR1978]

$3M doesn't go as far as it used to. Also if we were to poach someone we would likely have to pay at least some of their buyout on top of their salary.

Is Red worth more than $3m? $3m for a lifelong assistant who was at the forefront of the program's demise seems like a gift. Just because Red is making 3 doesn't mean we wouldn't pay a good coach $5m.

 

[NKR1978]

Do coaches want to leave a lesser conference to come to the ACC? It’s so down right now that it’s a weird time. Like no coach is leaving the Big East unless they get a bag to come to Cuse and hope to resurrect the program.

I do think Syracuse is a big time job that can be great again with the right coach and change of culture/philosophy.

I think we need to pony up and try…and if they do make the coaching change, I’ll reinsert my yearly contribution to their NIL which I’ve put exclusively toward Fran.

I feel like a good coach could really make a name for himself if he came in and dominated the ACC.

The reason why the ACC is so bad is because some of our big programs aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing. Like Miami and FSU falling off the map in the mid-late 00s really hurt the ACC for football, now Syracuse and Louisville being garbage is really hurting basketball.

 

[Sbucketball]

Red is apparently making about 3m. So they can pay.

Why in the world would they start him at $3m without performance thresholds. I said a couple weeks ago, he would have accepted the job if they paid him in cans of spaghettios.

 

[Cuse4Life]

if the buyout is also $3million and your a financial guy and you realize we used to make $6,000,000 a year on the small end from ticket sales and now we are only going to make $3,000,000 because no one renewed, it’s simple mathematically equation to getting rid of Red.

if money matters to SU, it should matter to you. Stop funding their pockets for a product that makes you miserable without transparency.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

Is Red worth more than $3m? $3m for a lifelong assistant who was at the forefront of the program's demise seems like a gift. Just because Red is making 3 doesn't mean we wouldn't pay a good coach $5m.

Oh I'm not saying he's worth it. But if the powers that be had a mandate to pick Red, he had leverage. My bigger point is that given the market (Men's Basketball Head Coach Salaries - USA TODAY), $4-5M+buyout is probably the starting point for any proven high-major HC currently under contract. Otherwise we're looking at guys like Langel and Hodgson, which I'm not necessarily opposed to, but will come with question marks.

 

[NKR1978]

Oh I'm not saying he's worth it. But if the powers that be had a mandate to pick Red, he had leverage. My bigger point is that given the market (Men's Basketball Head Coach Salaries - USA TODAY), $4-5M+buyout is probably the starting point for any proven high-major HC currently under contract. Otherwise we're looking at guys like Langel and Hodgson, which I'm not necessarily opposed to, but will come with question marks.

I think/hope that SU lowballed Red. More hope than think.

 

[Orangefizz]

Maybe we should make a continuity hire -- Allen Griffin's on the bench

Cmon that would be Red 2.0

As painful as this sounds, Red deserves a 3rd year

 

[nyucuse]

Cmon that would be Red 2.0

As painful as this sounds, Red deserves a 3rd year

That was sarcasm...

 

[Red2003]

I think/hope that SU lowballed Red. More hope than think.

I'm more sure of the lowball than anything. He essentially got an in role promotion. In any company, I don't care where you are they would not increase your pay by 2X or 3X. They give you a % increase usually around 15-25%, maybe more if there are is a crazy scenario. # of years in the contract is a different story.

 

[Orangefizz]

That was sarcasm...

Yes I know. I’ll be shocked if Griff is on the bench next year

 

[sweetpea]

Yes I know. I’ll be shocked if Griff is on the bench next year

If Red is still the coach next year, why will Griff get dumped? Is Griff any more responsible for what we are watching than the other assistants? Griff seems to catch a lot of the blame on here.