Coastal in ACC Championship

[Alsacs]

Swapping out VaTech with Boston College pretty much creates a much tougher division and puts all the patsies in one division. Our division is a juggernaut already without Virginia Tech. Holy Moly.

It would be about appeasing Clemson/Florida State as it relates to football.
Miami(Fl) is supposed to be the big dog in the Coastal.

Florida State/Clemson want tougher games and they have to play one Northeast game every year. While Miami which actually would prefer an annually Northeast game due to their alumni location. Plus Atlantic teams don’t get into VA often it’s a hole on the map.
Flipping one of UVA/VT for one of SU/BC is what the conference should do. The only other change would be to flip Miami for Florida State and then make Clemson-Florida State protected rivals and Miami-Georgia Tech.

That way Clemson-Florida State keep their rivalry annually.

 

[kmart128]

Who said they were upset?

They weren't in it for the past 4 years, did you hear that someone was upset or publicly complained? I haven't heard a peep from anyone.

Well those 4 years they had weren't even close to playoffs so it didn't matter if they were in a conference or not. But if they were to be left out this year they would definitely cry about it even though it was their decision.

 

[kmart128]

Ousted? Not going to happen.

How do you see that playing out on the committee exactly?

Committee Chairman - "Welp, everyone...seeing as how Notre Dame doesn't have a conference championship we must exclude them from consideration. All in favor say aye, those opposed, sit down and shut up." "On to the next order of business, what's for lunch?"

No but it can go down like this. Well ND had a bye week. And Ohio State and Oklahoma both beat ranked teams this week so they should jump a couple teams.

Like if Syracuse beat a ranked team and there was a team on a bye 1 or 2 spots ahead of us then I'd expect us to jump them. This should be no different.

 

[CuseOnly]

Well those 4 years they had weren't even close to playoffs so it didn't matter if they were in a conference or not. But if they were to be left out this year they would definitely cry about it even though it was their decision.

I have some news for you.

An undefeated Notre Dame is almost ALWAYS going to get into the playoff. Unless they play everyone on their schedule and nobody is ranked at all. And the odds of that are slim and none.

They have to play 5 ACC teams as well as at least 4 historic rivals, this year was USC, Michigan, Navy, Stanford.

Their schedule is ALWAYS difficult. They don't schedule chumps like the SEC does.

 

[CuseOnly]

No but it can go down like this. Well ND had a bye week. And Ohio State and Oklahoma both beat ranked teams this week so they should jump a couple teams.

Like if Syracuse beat a ranked team and there was a team on a bye 1 or 2 spots ahead of us then I'd expect us to jump them. This should be no different.

When was the last time an undefeated team ranked as high as them was jumped by a 1 loss team.

Not counting UCF...

I'll wait.

Would an undefeated Alabama, Georgia, Clemson, Oklahoma, OSU, Michigan, Texas, etc or almost anyone else be jumped by a 1 loss team because they were on a bye?

 

[Cusefan95]

If you want to completely delegitimize the playoff, you leave out an undefeated Notre Dame. Which is why Notre Dame has taken the position they have - they know some people might kick and scream about how they should be left out because they didn’t play in a championship game - but 0% chance it happens.

Plus, the committee killed any chance that could EVER be used against Notre Dame when they took Ohio State when Penn State and Wisconsin played in the B1G championship a couple years ago.

It sounds like a great argument for biased Notre Dame haters...for anyone that’s rational and sane, leaving ND out because they didn’t play in a ‘ship is a total non-starter.

 

[Cusefan95]

I think the NCAA should make a rule that you have to be a conference championship in order to qualify for a playoff.

The more I think about this, the more bat-crap crazy it sounds.

Let’s play our season out just a bit differently. Let’s say Syracuse beat Pitt and Notre Dame, and lost in the last minute at undefeated Clemson. Syracuse would have one loss, on the road, to a playoff team - but we wouldn’t have been in a playoff. You’d prefer a rule that you had to be in a championship game to be eligible for the playoff, so we couldn’t even be considered. Terrible idea.

As long as the conference championships are set up off unbalanced divisional formats, eliminating teams from playoff consideration because they were the second-best team in their conference but had the misfortune to play in the same division as the best team means it can’t be adopted.

 

[Chris02M]

Changing the divisions to be more balanced should have been done years ago but you have to get some team in the coastal to support it as majority rules

 

[omniorange]

Changing the divisions to be more balanced should have been done years ago but you have to get some team in the coastal to support it as majority rules

Discussion of changing the existing divisions has happened a few times since we joined the ACC. They always result in the "majority" saying things are fine as they are. Which means all 7 teams in the Coastal and at least one team in the Atlantic like the status quo. I don't think they expected the divisions to be as imbalanced as they have become and when one considers they have the likes of Miami, VT, and GT there it shouldn't be. But let's not kid ourselves - does anyone believe that Duke, UNC, and UVa aren't happy with those divisions? Lastly, though they didn't set out to make the most ND-friendly division in college football, it doesn't hurt either, which is why when we and Pitt joined I knew Pitt would wind up in the Coastal.

It is what it is.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[CuseOnly]

Changing the divisions to be more balanced should have been done years ago but you have to get some team in the coastal to support it as majority rules

Then 5 years from now, when that division is overstuffed with powerhouses, do we change it back?

What happens when Saban retires and Dabo goes to Bama to finish out his career? Clemson might be mediocre for a decade.

Point being, the teams at the top now may not be next year or for that matter, ever.

The only change that I think should be made is to swap FSU out of the Atlantic and into the Coastal so they can play Miami every year. Put UVA in our division instead.

 

[TheCusian]

ND has to go undefeated to overcome their lack of a 13th game. They did that this year. If they had 1 loss, they’d be well behind Ohio St, Oklahoma, and maybe Georgia.

They deserve to be in this year.

But the thing they signed up for is undefeated or bust to maintain independence. It makes zero sense to outsiders but some sense to the very weird world of ND boosters

 

[omniorange]

Then 5 years from now, when that division is overstuffed with powerhouses, do we change it back?

What happens when Saban retires and Dabo goes to Bama to finish out his career? Clemson might be mediocre for a decade.

Point being, the teams at the top now may not be next year or for that matter, ever.

The only change that I think should be made is to swap FSU out of the Atlantic and into the Coastal so they can play Miami every year. Put UVA in our division instead.

They already play annually due to the cross-over rivalry game. Perhaps you think that would do away with cross-over rivalry games? Anyway, there would be total revolt against that move since having FSU and Miami in opposite divisions means every team plays in Florida at least once every two years. Even with a no-division set-up with a 3-5-5 scheduling model the two Florida schools will be split up throughout the league so that those that don't have one of them as part of the "3" will have two years of one of them followed by two years of the other.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[nzm136]

Put Miami and FSU in the same division. Eliminate the crossover rival. Go to 9 conference games like the B1G. It’s not that difficult.

It is that hard. Your proposal would:
1. Eliminate the current setup where every school plays a Florida school every year.
2. Eliminate FSU-CU or CU-GT (unless you moved GT to the Atlantic. But that move would create a whole strong of GT-related issues)
3. Eliminate the possibility of FSU-[]_[] CCG, which would be MASSIVE if both teams were clicking
4. Eliminate interesting OOC games for FSU, CU, GT, and UL

 

[TheCusian]

Pod system makes the most sense.

Is there a rule you can’t just move the 2nd place team to the top of the other division automatically?

 

[OrlandoCuse]

It is that hard. Your proposal would:
1. Eliminate the current setup where every school plays a Florida school every year.
2. Eliminate FSU-CU or CU-GT (unless you moved GT to the Atlantic. But that move would create a whole strong of GT-related issues)
3. Eliminate the possibility of FSU-[]_[] CCG, which would be MASSIVE if both teams were clicking
4. Eliminate interesting OOC games for FSU, CU, GT, and UL

Why is GT so important?

Don’t really agree with any of your arguments

Look at the SEC and B1G. They seem to overcome the issues you laid out.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

9 games is NEVER happening.
It’s been explained too many times.
The big dogs Florida State and Clemson need 7 home games every year.
With Florida/South Carolina as annual opponents and Notre Dame every 3 years they can’t play 9 conference games as well and get 7 home games with their nonconference commitments.

The changes to the divisions should be dividing up Virginia and Virginia Tech from the Coastal and dividing up Boston College and Syracuse from the Atlantic.
It would even up geography of the conference.
I would flip Boston College or Syracuse and Virginia Tech as Florida State and Clemson would want the extra tougher game on their schedules annually.
Then make the crossover games VPi-UVa and BC/SU- Pitt

That would create even less balance.

If you go to 9 and count ND games as conference games, problem solved.

If you are going to keep divisions:

Miami, Clemson, VA Tech, NC State, Wake, Pitt, BC
FSU, GA Tech, UVA, UNC, Duke, Louisville, SU

Coastal would be easier so that has some attraction. Of the old ACC schools it is also more attractive. However the Atlantic has Miami, VA Tech, and Pitt which are traditional games for SU.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Or would you rather they teach their student body that sticking to your beliefs and core values is worth selling out for a few bucks.

That's what ND students go there for?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The more I think about this, the more bat-crap crazy it sounds.

Let’s play our season out just a bit differently. Let’s say Syracuse beat Pitt and Notre Dame, and lost in the last minute at undefeated Clemson. Syracuse would have one loss, on the road, to a playoff team - but we wouldn’t have been in a playoff. You’d prefer a rule that you had to be in a championship game to be eligible for the playoff, so we couldn’t even be considered. Terrible idea.

As long as the conference championships are set up off unbalanced divisional formats, eliminating teams from playoff consideration because they were the second-best team in their conference but had the misfortune to play in the same division as the best team means it can’t be adopted.

The reason to go by conference champion is because it gives an objective way to determine the field.

Subjectivity is a bigger enemy here.

 

[orangenauburn]

You are nuts. ND deserves to be where they are.

Ohio State doesn't deserve top 4.

Oklahoma earned the fourth spot.

Bama
Clemson
ND
Oklahoma

End of discussion

 

[Cusefan95]

You are nuts. ND deserves to be where they are.

Ohio State doesn't deserve top 4.

Oklahoma earned the fourth spot.

Bama
Clemson
ND
Oklahoma

End of discussion

...Sagarin has Ohio State in the top 4, ahead of Oklahoma. So why, exactly, is it so obvious Ohio State doesn’t deserve a spot?

The whole thing is so subjective, it really renders the entire “championship” just a smidgen less theoretical than it used to be. It’s still not an actual national championship.

 

[orangenauburn]

...Sagarin has Ohio State in the top 4, ahead of Oklahoma. So why, exactly, is it so obvious Ohio State doesn’t deserve a spot?

The whole thing is so subjective, it really renders the entire “championship” just a smidgen less theoretical than it used to be. It’s still not an actual national championship.

And he has us something like 35th

All I have to say about Ohio state is Purdue and Maryland

 

[Hoo's That]

I think the NCAA should make a rule that you have to be a conference championship in order to qualify for a playoff.

The NCAA has less than no say in running the playoffs. The only small measure of control is through the limits on the number of games a team can play each year. The NCAA gets a grand total of $0.00 each and every year from D-1A football because of Supreme Court rulings in the late 70s/early 80s.

 

[Hoo's That]

Would never happen, ever.

It won’t happen because it can’t. The NCAA has no say in how the playoffs are run. See my other post, #47.

 

[BKCuse]

ND and their pretentious BS

I hate them

 

[DustyMoore]

Put Miami and FSU in the same division. Eliminate the crossover rival. Go to 9 conference games like the B1G. It’s not that difficult.

FSU & Clemson (along with GT and UofL) will never go for a 9 game conference schedule. 3 or the 4 are the top money makers for the conference so doubt it will ever happen.