Cole Swider Transferring from Nova to Syracuse

[Syracuslove]

Swider isn’t as talented Griffin and that’s a fact. But I don’t think we recruited him to be an exact replacement. Rather, I think Swider will be a guy averaging 6 ppg while averaging a high 3 point percentage. He won’t create his own shots, and will be a catch and shoot open 3s type guy. And he’ll certainly be making some huge late game 3s. That’s exactly what we need, not a volume scorer, but an efficient one.

 

[UpstateSM]

Swider isn’t as talented Griffin and that’s a fact. But I don’t think we recruited him to be an exact replacement. Rather, I think Swider will be a guy averaging 6 ppg while averaging a high 3 point percentage. He won’t create his own shots, and will be a catch and shoot open 3s type guy. And he’ll certainly be making some huge late game 3s. That’s exactly what we need, not a volume scorer, but an efficient one.

I'm not sure that's a fact

 

[CA Monk]

Am I the only one?
Every time I see this post up at the top of my feed, I'm so gun shy now, I think for a second, "Oh, damn, Swider is transferring already."

 

[hoopsupstate]

Swider isn’t as talented Griffin and that’s a fact. But I don’t think we recruited him to be an exact replacement. Rather, I think Swider will be a guy averaging 6 ppg while averaging a high 3 point percentage. He won’t create his own shots, and will be a catch and shoot open 3s type guy. And he’ll certainly be making some huge late game 3s. That’s exactly what we need, not a volume scorer, but an efficient one.

Talent is not always the way to determine a better basketball player. Moten was a prime example. There were many players who may have been more talented, but few were better basketball players.

 

[Orangezoo]

Swider isn’t as talented Griffin and that’s a fact. But I don’t think we recruited him to be an exact replacement. Rather, I think Swider will be a guy averaging 6 ppg while averaging a high 3 point percentage. He won’t create his own shots, and will be a catch and shoot open 3s type guy. And he’ll certainly be making some huge late game 3s. That’s exactly what we need, not a volume scorer, but an efficient one.

Swider was a top 50 recruit. He averaged 5.7 a game in 18 mins a game. I doubt he plays only 18 a game here and he isn't likely to be a 4th or 5th option for us.

While yes efficiency is needed, if he is taking 5-6 shots a game then what was the point of bringing him in?

Griffin was a top 200 recruit. He was a streaky shooter and player in general, plus athlete with a high motor on the boards. His skill on the ball was below average for a 3/2 combo wing. He also had at times horrible shot selection. Griffin also often underperformed to his capabilities on a regular basis. When he showed up and was mentally locked in he could play at an All ACC level- we saw that only a handful of times.

I've said it quite a few times but let's roll it out and see what we have.

 

[Syracuslove]

I think

Swider was a top 50 recruit. He averaged 5.7 a game in 18 mins a game. I doubt he plays only 18 a game here and he isn't likely to be a 4th or 5th option for us.

While yes efficiency is needed, if he is taking 5-6 shots a game then what was the point of bringing him in?

Griffin was a top 200 recruit. He was a streaky shooter and player in general, plus athlete with a high motor on the boards. His skill on the ball was below average for a 3/2 combo wing. He also had at times horrible shot selection. Griffin also often underperformed to his capabilities on a regular basis. When he showed up and was mentally locked in he could play at an All ACC level- we saw that only a handful of times.

I've said it quite a few times but let's roll it out and see what we have.

I think he’d be the 4th option here for us. A sharpshooter that catch help stretch the floor and shoot a high percentage, but I’m just not seeing the shot creation there. Kinda like the college equivalent of a kyle korver. Can stick a dagger in the other team late in the game.

At least that’s what I want to see out of him (and perhaps 6ppg is a little too low). Honestly, Griffin coming in at first kind of looked like a better version of Swider. Let’s not forget we all thought Griffin was super efficient at Illinois as the 6th man and 3rd scoring option there, and thought he was going to be a star here. I think he was kind of misused here though I get why based off last years team. This year, we’re going to have to lean on Buddy for shot creation, and I think he has what it takes.

 

[Syracuslove]

I'm not sure that's a fact

I mean it’s pretty clear to me. Sure Swider was a high rated recruit out of high school, but that hasn’t fully translated over to the college game. Maybe it was playing time holding him back, but you’d think Jay Wright would give him more opportunity if he deserved it, especially when he had 2/3 of his stars hurt.

Griffin on the other hand proved it at Illinois (had better numbers both scoring and rebounding as a sophomore than Swider did as a junior), and honestly didn’t play that bad for us here. I think people just need to temper expectations a bit or we’re going to be trashing on Swider instead one year from now.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Swider was a top 50 recruit. He averaged 5.7 a game in 18 mins a game. I doubt he plays only 18 a game here and he isn't likely to be a 4th or 5th option for us.

While yes efficiency is needed, if he is taking 5-6 shots a game then what was the point of bringing him in?

Griffin was a top 200 recruit. He was a streaky shooter and player in general, plus athlete with a high motor on the boards. His skill on the ball was below average for a 3/2 combo wing. He also had at times horrible shot selection. Griffin also often underperformed to his capabilities on a regular basis. When he showed up and was mentally locked in he could play at an All ACC level- we saw that only a handful of times.

I've said it quite a few times but let's roll it out and see what we have.

He's going to play 30. He will average around 12 and 6 IMO. There's some on the hill who think he's a better shooter than Buddy. I guess we will see.

 

[Orangezoo]

I think

I think he’d be the 4th option here for us. A sharpshooter that catch help stretch the floor and shoot a high percentage, but I’m just not seeing the shot creation there. Kinda like the college equivalent of a kyle korver. Can stick a dagger in the other team late in the game.

At least that’s what I want to see out of him (and perhaps 6ppg is a little too low). Honestly, Griffin coming in at first kind of looked like a better version of Swider. Let’s not forget we all thought Griffin was super efficient at Illinois as the 6th man and 3rd scoring option there, and thought he was going to be a star here. I think he was kind of misused here though I get why based off last years team. This year, we’re going to have to lean on Buddy for shot creation, and I think he has what it takes.

I liked Griffin and he had some big moments but I don't understand rating a guy so highly who just struggled with any kind of consistency.

Griffin is nothing like Swider outside having an affinity for the 3ball. Not sure how he was a better version of Cole but we can just disagree here.

Also Cole is the third option at the lowest. If he is option 4 that likely means Joe is ahead of him and well not ideal. I just don't see it. I'm not overrating the kid at all just saying I think your take is not about who he is intended to be at SU.

Jay Wrights system and how he views bigs is just different. Cole has done some of the things that are what made him a high recruit just in smaller quantities. He was playing a role that was just not a great fit - especially on D.

 

[Orangezoo]

He's going to play 30. He will average around 12 and 6 IMO. There's some on the hill who think he's a better shooter than Buddy. I guess we will see.

Yeah I don't know about the take on being a better shooter than Buddy but 12/6 is what I had him pegged for roughly as well

 

[Orangezoo]

Don't be surprised if Cole comes in and fares better than a number of portal guys talked about here and more highly ranked on the list of this year's impact transfers.

Let's not forget Cole spent 3 years playing under another great coach. He was bought in and clearly a good teammate. Great work ethic. This isn't a kid coming in running away from a bad program or from bridges he burnt. I would be more surprised if he struggled or couldn't earn big minutes than the opposite. Everything about his attitude, approach and awareness to what he needed to work on piled on top of natural talent usually tends to favor a player.

Again let's roll it out.

 

[pearl31]

Again let's roll it out.

love this idea

 

[Cuseball]

Don't be surprised if Cole comes in and fares better than a number of portal guys talked about here and more highly ranked on the list of this year's impact transfers.

Let's not forget Cole spent 3 years playing under another great coach. He was bought in and clearly a good teammate. Great work ethic. This isn't a kid coming in running away from a bad program or from bridges he burnt. I would be more surprised if he struggled or couldn't earn big minutes than the opposite. Everything about his attitude, approach and awareness to what he needed to work on piled on top of natural talent usually tends to favor a player.

Again let's roll it out.

Yes, completely agree. he has the skill set to do very well here. He might be asked to rebound a bit more but will have plenty of room to shoot. The work ethic and good teammate aspect is also a common theme for this year's team. On the surface, it appears everyone will buy in.

Cuse!

 

[Orangezoo]

It's a long time until Oct 27 lol. Let's hope football wins tomorrow night to make the wait more tolerable as well as not rush us into winter...

 

[721Comstock]

He's going to play 30. He will average around 12 and 6 IMO. There's some on the hill who think he's a better shooter than Buddy. I guess we will see.

Nah, almost no way he pulls down 6 boards a game on avg.

I know it's splitting hairs, but 5 (or fewer, like 4.5) is a much more realistic average.

Here's a list of fairly comparable dudes the past few seasons, and their averages:
Griff - 5.8 He was an excellent rebounder for his size/minutes
Eli - 4.9
Eli - 4.3
Marek - 4.8
Uncle Drew - 4.6
Mali - 4.3

CJ Fair - 6.4
This was his Senior season, he played All The Minutes, and was definitely a better rebounder than Swider will ever be.

 

[two3zone]

Yeah I don't know about the take on being a better shooter than Buddy but 12/6 is what I had him pegged for roughly as well

I’m there with you guys on this.

 

[two3zone]

love this idea

Adding so much! Home run!

 

[Cusefan0307]

Nah, almost no way he pulls down 6 boards a game on avg.

I know it's splitting hairs, but 5 (or fewer, like 4.5) is a much more realistic average.

Here's a list of fairly comparable dudes the past few seasons, and their averages:
Griff - 5.8 He was an excellent rebounder for his size/minutes
Eli - 4.9
Eli - 4.3
Marek - 4.8
Uncle Drew - 4.6
Mali - 4.3

CJ Fair - 6.4
This was his Senior season, he played All The Minutes, and was definitely a better rebounder than Swider will ever be.

Nice work. I agree he probably ends up around 4-5. Those numbers seem very low. Shows you how much we struggle on the glass out of the zone.

 

[Orangezoo]

I’m there with you guys on this.

Yeah and to 721's point on rebounds it will be interesting. Honestly I would love to see Jesse and Benny doing well on the boards at the expense of Cole's numbers as that let's Cole get out in transition for open 3s. That said I think it ends up having to be a committee rebounding effort this year given no one is coming in with major chops on the boards.

 

[721Comstock]

Yeah and to 721's point on rebounds it will be interesting. Honestly I would love to see Jesse and Benny doing well on the boards at the expense of Cole's numbers as that let's Cole get out in transition for open 3s. That said I think it ends up having to be a committee rebounding effort this year given no one is coming in with major chops on the boards.

This.

I'm gonna assume that Jesse and Benny (for example) will be our top 2 board guys, and then Cole likely 3rd.

I don't think we're gonna have a Hoover dude who pulls down 9-10+ on the regular like Q or OSB did.

JGIII did a great job late last season boarding from the guard spot, so hopefully he keeps sticking his nose in there on those long boards that typically come off missed 3's.

Buddy could DOUBLE his rebound #'s if he simply followed his own shots.
He's gotten into the bad habit of starting to drift back down court after the release, often vacating where he shot from, which is very often where the ball comes right back to.

 

[Niastri]

Nah, almost no way he pulls down 6 boards a game on avg.

I know it's splitting hairs, but 5 (or fewer, like 4.5) is a much more realistic average.

Here's a list of fairly comparable dudes the past few seasons, and their averages:
Griff - 5.8 He was an excellent rebounder for his size/minutes
Eli - 4.9
Eli - 4.3
Marek - 4.8
Uncle Drew - 4.6
Mali - 4.3

CJ Fair - 6.4
This was his Senior season, he played All The Minutes, and was definitely a better rebounder than Swider will ever be.

While Griffen was a good rebounder, I think we'll miss him most as a weekside shot blocker. We were 8th in the country in block% last year, without playing a center, and Griffen was a big part of that. Guerrier wasn't bad either, though not exceptional. Edwards will need to carry much more of the burden than last year, or Williams will need to be a very good shotblocker, or we will have a big drop off.

 

[Orangezoo]

While Griffen was a good rebounder, I think we'll miss him most as a weekside shot blocker. We were 8th in the country in block% last year, without playing a center, and Griffen was a big part of that. Guerrier wasn't bad either, though not exceptional. Edwards will need to carry much more of the burden than last year, or Williams will need to be a very good shotblocker, or we will have a big drop off.

Yep - this is one of the things I do think Williams brings day one. Ample evidence of this from his tape.

 

[Orangezoo]

JGIII did a great job late last season boarding from the guard spot, so hopefully he keeps sticking his nose in there on those long boards that typically come off missed 3's.

As much as anything this stood out to me late last year in the tourney. Either rebounding or grabbing the outlet quick Joe was able to initiate the offense quickly or get on the break. With the zone plus given Joe's skillset it's in our best interest to get the offense started earlier. Even if only to make sure Buddy, Cole or Benny get a touch early in the possession and we operate in the half court after that. We can't be walking it up the court all day long. I think we have guys who can effectively score in the half court but it should be plan b with plan A being about early offense.

Jesse and Benny aim to get to the misses first, Joe supports and outlets while Cole and Buddy get up court. Spread them out and then take what is there, hopefully including Benny being a good cutter.

Little things this year will be huge to try and offset what we don't have.

 

[Cusefan0307]

This.

I'm gonna assume that Jesse and Benny (for example) will be our top 2 board guys, and then Cole likely 3rd.

I don't think we're gonna have a Hoover dude who pulls down 9-10+ on the regular like Q or OSB did.

JGIII did a great job late last season boarding from the guard spot, so hopefully he keeps sticking his nose in there on those long boards that typically come off missed 3's.

Buddy could DOUBLE his rebound #'s if he simply followed his own shots.
He's gotten into the bad habit of starting to drift back down court after the release, often vacating where he shot from, which is very often where the ball comes right back to.

We were always taught the shooter shouldn’t follow his own shot. He’s the guy that needs to get back on defense.

 

[jgeorge322]

Swider isn’t as talented Griffin and that’s a fact. But I don’t think we recruited him to be an exact replacement. Rather, I think Swider will be a guy averaging 6 ppg while averaging a high 3 point percentage. He won’t create his own shots, and will be a catch and shoot open 3s type guy. And he’ll certainly be making some huge late game 3s. That’s exactly what we need, not a volume scorer, but an efficient one.

he will score more than 6 ppg and will take many fewer dumb shots.