Cole Swider Transferring from Nova to Syracuse

[Niastri]

Since Waters did a head to head comparison, I will also point out that Swider is listed at 6'9 and 225lbs where Guerrier was 6'7 220. The extra inches and pounds will help offset some of Swider's athleticism deficit.

Rebounding is the biggest concern, with Swider averaging 6.6 per 40 minutes in Big East conference play. Guerrier averages 10 rebounds per 40 in ACC, so that's a lot to pick up.

When basing comparisons on their games and not size alone, I think a better comparison would be Swider to Allen Griffen and Benny Williams to Guerrier. Either way we get a lot taller and gain some weight.

But also importantly, we'll have the benefit of Jesse Edwards at center instead of Dolezaj. Dolezaj spent a lot of rebounding possessions pushed under the backboard.

I think rebounding and interior defense improves with our new starting front line.

I am placing a lot of faith that the Edwards who was a difference maker at the end of the season is the one we get from day one. Last year at this point, I had a lot of excitement over a full year of Sidibe, only to have my hopes dashed with his health problems.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for no bad luck in health and productivity this year... We've earned it with our bad luck going back to Onuaku missing the tournament.

 

[RealMcNeil]

I can't really argue with a lot of what you are saying, as they are opinion cases and you might be right... I chose to be more optimistic than you with the same data. But you're missing out on Swider.

This is one video I'm referring to. I hadn't watched it for a few months, and I'm feeling pretty good about my earlier statements.


Unfortunately, they could have cut about 50 made threes where Swider only touches the ball for the shot.

My first thought is that he looked a little heavy in the video. Like he hadn't worked as hard on conditioning as he should preseason. I imagine that hurt his explosiveness and his playing time. I think he knows this and worked hard in the off-season. We'll see.

He still shows some athleticism, particularly late in the video on a breakaway dunk where he covers a lot of ground on two strides before dunking.

In the video he demonstrates the lumbering drives a few times.

One play I really like starts at 3:10. He is in the bottom corner on the secondary break, receives a pass for a three, but a shorter defender covered him up. Swider pump fakes and dribbles parallel to the baseline till about the lane... There he is doubled very briefly, and turns his back without picking up his dribble, backing the shorter player further in. The double backs off, as his guy makes a cut towards the basket and Swider shoots a turning mini hook from the lane for an easy two. He showed a variety of skills in that one play completely independent of fast twitch athleticism, but entirely repeatable.

I'm not going to break down the whole video, but there are more than a few plays like that. I found it to be a decent 7 minutes spent, especially because I now know Swider never misses an open three and I'm feeling pretty confident about him.

Swider's success, in my opinion, depends a lot on his success with his head / shot fake. If he can sell it, he'll be able to make a play against most defenders he'll see.

 

[two3zone]

Swider's success, in my opinion, depends a lot on his success with his head / shot fake. If he can sell it, he'll be able to make a play against most defenders he'll see.

The problem with that is when you’re one dimensional, nobody bites on the fakes.

That’s how buddy got so successful, defenders actually had to defend the drive.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Being 6’9” and playing on the perimeter is a huge advantage. He can shoot over most people. He has really good balance and is shot ready with a quick release. If people run at him, he will just shot fake and get his shot off. He’s also a better ball handler and passer than both Guerrier and Griffin. All three of our forwards are taller than Griffin and Guerrier. This extra length, along with Edward’s size should make the zone much more effective. I think this team can be really good.

 

[two3zone]

Being 6’9” and playing on the perimeter is a huge advantage. He can shoot over most people. He has really good balance and is shot ready with a quick release. If people run at him, he will just shot fake and get his shot off. He’s also a better ball handler and passer than both Guerrier and Griffin. All three of our forwards are taller than Griffin and Guerrier. This extra length, along with Edward’s size should make the zone much more effective. I think this team can be really good.

Swider is a better ball handler than Griffin? Come on, you can’t be serious.

 

[OrangeAl]

Swider is a better ball handler than Griffin? Come on, you can’t be serious.

He certainly can't be any worse.

 

[Orangezoo]

He certainly can't be any worse.

Yeah Griff was pretty awful as a ball handler. He looked good when he wasn't defended and bringing the ball up the court. He had a crossover that rarely worked and always got himself into trouble in traffic similar to QG. Both of them were like watching Southerland at times trying to use the bounce.

 

[althea]

We've earned it with our bad luck going back to Onuaku missing the tournament.

Sorry to derail this thread, but I actually had a chance to talk with Arinze this past Saturday about that specific injury. I told him when it happened, many fans felt sick to our stomach, because most of us knew what it meant. I asked him how he and the players felt about it knowing they were in a good position to win it all that year. I was shocked to hear that he was not surprised at all by the injury as he was playing hurt the entire year. He said he had to get treatment before every game that year and the only reason he played the season was because it was his senior year. A much different explanation than I expected.

 

[two3zone]

He certainly can't be any worse.

Wow, may want to check YouTube out. I get it, Griffin folded at the end of the year and he’s public enemy number one around here. But he is far more talented than Swider will ever be. Better shooter? No. Everything else? Absolutely.

 

[Niastri]

The problem with that is when you’re one dimensional, nobody bites on the fakes.

That’s how buddy got so successful, defenders actually had to defend the drive.

In the video I posted, Nova seemed to have "let Swider drive on their big dumb guy" as a strategy. Several highlights were of that game.

If your one skill is dominant, a fake is always going to be effective. When Allen Iverson jab steps you, you better take it seriously or he's going to humiliate you. If Cole Swider pump fakes you, you contest, because that's what he does. He has an effective pump fake because he has an effective shot.

 

[two3zone]

In the video I posted, Nova seemed to have "let Swider drive on their big dumb guy" as a strategy. Several highlights were of that game.

If your one skill is dominant, a fake is always going to be effective. When Allen Iverson jab steps you, you better take it seriously or he's going to humiliate you. If Cole Swider pump fakes you, you contest, because that's what he does. He has an effective pump fake because he has an effective shot.

But he’s so slow that the defender can recover.

 

[djcon57]

Wow, may want to check YouTube out. I get it, Griffin folded at the end of the year and he’s public enemy number one around here. But he is far more talented than Swider will ever be. Better shooter? No. Everything else? Absolutely.

Griffin was hideously undersized in the zone. I would hope Swider will be better on the d boards

 

[Orangezoo]

Wow, may want to check YouTube out. I get it, Griffin folded at the end of the year and he’s public enemy number one around here. But he is far more talented than Swider will ever be. Better shooter? No. Everything else? Absolutely.

Meh. Griffin was a plus athlete, a streaky shooter and a decent mtm defender. Also an aggressive rebounder. He was not elite at anything and thus far more talented is a big stretch. Not to mention he rarely put together more than short stretches of play making use of the talent he did have. I think you are overrating Griff here and somewhat alluding to Cole like he was scraped off the top of the trash heap and waiver wire...

 

[two3zone]

Griffin was hideously undersized in the zone. I would hope Swider will be better on the d boards

Yet Griff doubled the rebound output for Illinois that Swider did at Nova.

 

[Orangezoo]

Yet Griff doubled the rebound output for Illinois that Swider did at Nova.

Not sure we can compare rebound numbers on guys playing different positions in different systems. I think we all have been hitting the analyze the tape and stats flask a little hard. Time to lacem up and see what's real.

 

[721Comstock]

Griffin was hideously undersized in the zone. I would hope Swider will be better on the d boards

But somehow - Eli wasn’t?

Nor Mali?

 

[two3zone]

Meh. Griffin was a plus athlete, a streaky shooter and a decent mtm defender. Also an aggressive rebounder. He was not elite at anything and thus far more talented is a big stretch. Not to mention he rarely put together more than short stretches of play making use of the talent he did have. I think you are overrating Griff here and somewhat alluding to Cole like he was scraped off the top of the trash heap and waiver wire...

Not at all, but outside of being a great shooter Cole doesn’t do much at all, the film and the stars back this up.

Without regular season Griff we don’t make the tournament, not even close to the bubble. He shut down at the end of the year and was awful, but he was our best player for a big part of the season.

 

[two3zone]

Not sure we can compare rebound numbers on guys playing different positions in different systems. I think we all have been hitting the analyze the tape and stats flask a little hard. Time to lacem up and see what's real.

I’ve seen him play, and he averages 6 rebounds and less than a half a block in 40 minutes. Dude has 13 blocks I’m his college career at 6’9”. Who cares what system it is, his defense is poor.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Sorry to derail this thread, but I actually had a chance to talk with Arinze this past Saturday about that specific injury. I told him when it happened, many fans felt sick to our stomach, because most of us knew what it meant. I asked him how he and the players felt about it knowing they were in a good position to win it all that year. I was shocked to hear that he was not surprised at all by the injury as he was playing hurt the entire year. He said he had to get treatment before every game that year and the only reason he played the season was because it was his senior year. A much different explanation than I expected.

I think when he went on Devo's podcast earlier this year he mentioned that he was getting treatment before every game. Makes what he did all the more impressive that year. Man SU has had some brutal luck with centers getting hurt

 

[Orangezoo]

I’ve seen him play, and he averages 6 rebounds and less than a half a block in 40 minutes. Dude has 13 blocks I’m his college career at 6’9”. Who cares what system it is, his defense is poor.

He played the 5 most of the time at Nova with their small lineup and got screened and switched on guards and smaller wings. There was a reason his D wasn't great. He isn't a rim protector that was never his game. I've seen him play a lot too. Let's at least be fair to the kid. I'm not gonna call him a plus defender in his career but the gap you are drawing out between he and Griff is far too large.

Also one of the reasons for Griff's blocks was that it was he Marek and QG back there. Teams had absolutely zero fear in going at those guys. So he was getting challenged every single game as he should given our undersized frontcourt. Good on Griff for getting the blocks he did for sure. I would love to have seen how Griff could have done with Jesse behind him all year. That will most certainly help make things a little better for the D overall and for Cole and Benny

 

[Niastri]

But he’s so slow that the defender can recover.

Watch the video

 

[two3zone]

He played the 5 most of the time at Nova with their small lineup and got screened and switched on guards and smaller wings. There was a reason his D wasn't great. He isn't a rim protector that was never his game. I've seen him play a lot too. Let's at least be fair to the kid. I'm not gonna call him a plus defender in his career but the gap you are drawing out between he and Griff is far too large.

Also one of the reasons for Griff's blocks was that it was he Marek and QG back there. Teams had absolutely zero fear in going at those guys. So he was getting challenged every single game as he should given our undersized frontcourt. Good on Griff for getting the blocks he did for sure. I would love to have seen how Griff could have done with Jesse behind him all year. That will most certainly help make things a little better for the D overall and for Cole and Benny

So if he played the 5, 6 rebounds and .2 blocks per 40 is acceptable? You should get that by accident. It’s the Big East for Christ sake.

 

[Niastri]

I’ve seen him play, and he averages 6 rebounds and less than a half a block in 40 minutes. Dude has 13 blocks I’m his college career at 6’9”. Who cares what system it is, his defense is poor.

Yeah, Swider accidentally blocks a shot a few times a season. He's not going to help our defense that way. I can't speak to his defense, highlights usually focus on offense. But he seems to battle and play physically the few clips I've seen of him. He's not going to get pushed around on defense, which is all I'm asking for after seasons of being severely undersized.

 

[two3zone]

Watch the video

I have, don’t see it, only time he goes in the lane it’s a fast break except one or two times.

He took ONE shot inside the arc per game last year. Stop, this is ridiculous.

 

[Niastri]

I have, don’t see it, only time he goes in the lane it’s a fast break except one or two times.

He took ONE shot inside the arc per game last year. Stop, this is ridiculous.

I was being tongue in cheek... I have come to terms that you aren't seeing the same things I am when watching the same video.

I guess that's why they play the games