Coleman in the Big Mac

[Orangezoo]

i think foul trouble could definitely be an issue for sure but the fact he will be a guy the opposing teams center may be forced to come out on is another dimension he adds. with cj, cooney& james along with the rebounding prowess we should be more difficult to zone next year.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

We have all the pieces for a prototypical "great" team next year (didn't have it this year):
Playmaking, pass 1st PG (MCW)
Sharpshooter (Cooney)
Leadership (Triche/Fair/Southerland)
A guy who finishes around the basket and has a midrange game (Fair)
A legit low post presence (DC2)
Scorers off the bench (Cooney, Southerland)
Size off the bench (Keita, Rak)
A good mix of veterans and youngsters
A handful of jumpshooters (Southerland, Cooney, Triche, MCW, Fair)
Penetrators (Triche, MCW)
Great defensively

I would say we next year we are developing the prototypical "great" team. The majority of those pieces will be newbies. The low post, the sharpshooter, even the pg will be in his first year running the show. I can see a team that gets better as the year goes on, capable of doing some damage by the time the tourney rolls around.

2013-2014 and 2014-2015 the pieces are scheduled to be in for the prototypical great team runs. Experienced low post presence, sharpshooter, experienced high IQ pg. That's what JB traditionally builds his big runs on. More OSU-like than what SU ran out there this year.

We need to steal another good year as we await for the prototype to gell. I thought we stole one this year. Didn't make the final four, but come on, all in all a pretty damn good year considering. I was always anxious with this team though. Always thought they could lose, especially after teams slowed us down.

For '12-'13 to move from good to the near great status of this year, I think it will need to be constructed more like this past years team. In order to be constructed like this past years team, Noel needs to come here. Noel takes Fab's role, we band aid over the PF (again) with a combo of DC2, Rak, and Dirty and all other positions will be good (CJ, BT, and MCW). I could be another hard to trust team that wins based on defense because you don't really know where the O will be coming from.

 

[armory]

I've never been as high on DC2 as I am now. Anyone criticizing him needs to get a grip. This kid is an absolute stud with a rare combination of size and old school low post skill. I'm giddy at how he will impact our half court offense.

 

[dollarbill44]

I thought DJC (there can be only 1 DC) looked pretty solid offensively and I was blown away by his outlet passing ability, especially the full court pass to Lewis for an easy bucket. He has some decent post moves and a good shot. He needs some work on the defensive side of the court and last night he didn't seem to have much quickness getting after loose balls, but that's a minor nit because he can just stand tall and let the guards and wings get on the floor for those.

I was very impressed with his size. He's one of those guys that makes the basketball look small. While his endurance looked decent (he got up and down the court and didn't look tired), I would like to see his pace improve a bit, which I'm certain it will once he's practicing regularly with the team. We got spoiled this year with Fab and BMK getting up and down the court like the Energizer bunny. We need to reset ourselves since I see DJC with more of AO's pace.

With all of that said, I am excited to see him in Orange and turning into a star.

 

[edowd26]

I've never been as high on DC2 as I am now. Anyone criticizing him needs to get a grip. This kid is an absolute stud with a rare combination of size and old school low post skill. I'm giddy at how he will impact our half court offense.

yup. doubly so with MCW ability to get the low post invovled. Double team DCII... I DARE YOU!

 

[personalbias]

Saw some of the game last night too. DC seems to already have the fundamental and essential big man skill set prior to entering college that most big men need to develop while in their first year of college. He appears to understand the game and whereabouts of the other players as well. Can see why cal wanted him. I felt that next year without that explosive go to the basket player (Dion) we would struggle a bit on offense, having seen albeit briefly DC I am thinking we will have a big body low post scorer and re-bounder like we haven't seen in a long time. Which will open the outside shot (we will have several good shooters), which will open the lane for Triche and MCW to penetrate. We may have a more fluid open court and half court team with better rebounding skills. Watchout

 

[RF2044]

I can't agree with you on "Leadership." Where have you seen that any of those guys can be leaders? They all seem to be very quiet. What leadership qualities have any of them shown?

College athletics is all about attrition. Experienced players ascend into leadership roles, then move on when their eligibility expires. And then it is up to the next group of rising upperclassmen to take their place and demonstrate leadership for the next group of young players.

Heading into last year, there were plenty of questions about whether a guy like Scoop [with a somewhat checkered track record] could be a leader. Legitimate questions, IMO. He knocked it out of the park this year.

This criticism of Triche being quiet and not having shown leadership reminds me a LOT of what people were saying about Andy a few seasons ago. How'd that turn out? We haven't had a more vocal and demonstrative leader in a long time.

This year, Fair was a sophomore who deferred to the upperclassman. Next year, he'll be an upperclassman who's gone through the wars and will be assuming a more prominent role in the offense. And Southerland will be a senior who's played a lot. My guess is that you won't see Southerland being so happy-go-lucky next year--you'll see a guy who recognizes that this is his last go around, who will be eager for the team to get back to the elite 8 and beyond. And Keita will be an upperclassman, as well.

Leadership should be in bountiful supply next season.

 

[billsin01]

I think he's going to be a beast on the boards, and if he can show enough of a post game to get 4-5 touches down low a game, it will give our shooters a lot of open looks.

Yeah, I think the reason these threads get so contentious is that so may people either want to declare today that he is the best big man we've recruited in X years or that he is way overrated, out of shape and lazy. The truth is almost always somewhere in the middle.

But I agree, if he can just get 3 touches a half in the post and make something out of most of them, it opens a lot of things up for the rest of the team and it gives you somewhere to go on those occasions where you need a bucket or a good look, at least.

 

[All4SU]

I can't agree with you on "Leadership." Where have you seen that any of those guys can be leaders? They all seem to be very quiet. What leadership qualities have any of them shown?

Who says leaders have to be rah rah guys? Leaders lead in the style that suits them best. Those guys have demonstrated work ethic, team first attitude, discipline, maturity. That sounds like the groundwork for leadership to me.

 

[orangehomer]

This criticism of Triche being quiet and not having not shown leadership reminds me a LOT of what people were saying about Andy a few seasons ago. How'd that turn out? We haven't had a more vocal and demonstrative leader in a long time.

not only that but i think it was pretty clear the lockerroom was dominated by scoop, dion, and kris and their extrovert personalities. triche is an introvert, but that does not disqualify him as a leader. it could just mean what we hope it means, which is that he was waiting his turn. i can see triche being the team captain with mcw as the emotional type guy.

 

[DeGrozz]

He looked in good shape, moved well.

I was surprised at his motor getting up and down the court. These all-star games aren't easy for big men to play in. There are too many 7 - 10 second possessions and I think at one point Dajuan spen a good minute or two just running from one end of the court to the other because the game was moving that quickly up and down -- but he didn't let up! I think that's a good sign that he kept moving because, let's be honest, he doesn't exactly have the body type to play the up and down game for long stretches.

I'm not trying to knock him, I think he looks much better than he did even 6 months ago. Obviously, he still has a lot of work to do on his body, but I think he'll be coming in much better shape than I expected.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Who says leaders have to be rah rah guys? Leaders lead in the style that suits them best. Those guys have demonstrated work ethic, team first attitude, discipline, maturity. That sounds like the groundwork for leadership to me.

I agree with the leadership by example theory too. And one of the things I look forward to is BT's example.

BT has shown me good focus on defense. I want to see how that cascades throughout the team. It reminds me of when Andy assumed a leadership role and then that teams attention to D really stepped up. You will also have MCW up top, and you get the feeling he is very coachable, and will be focused on D also (and whether this should be credited to BT is debateable but it seems like it could easily be a characteristic of next years team).

BT also gets a boost because DC2 knows him. I believe DC2 will look to BT. Having a heralded big respect you can go a long way to supporting a team leadership position.

I can easily envision an intense Defensive focus on next years team that takes it cue, in great part, from BTs example.

 

[billsin01]

College athletics is all about attrition. Experienced players ascend into leadership roles, then move on when their eligibility expires. And then it is up to the next group of rising upperclassmen to take their place and demonstrate leadership for the next group of young players.

Heading into last year, there were plenty of questions about whether a guy like Scoop [with a somewhat checkered track record] could be a leader. Legitimate questions, IMO. He knocked it out of the park this year.

This criticism of Triche being quiet and not having not shown leadership reminds me a LOT of what people were saying about Andy a few seasons ago. How'd that turn out? We haven't had a more vocal and demonstrative leader in a long time.

This year, Fair was a sophomore who deferred to the upperclassman. Next year, he'll be an upperclassman who's gone through the wars and will be assuming a more prominent role in the offense. And Southerland will be a senior who's played a lot. My guess is that you won't see Southerland being so happy-go-lucky next year--you'll see a guy who recognizes that this is his last go around, who will be eager for the team to get back to the elite 8 and beyond. And Keita will be an upperclassman, as well.

Leadership should be in bountiful supply next season.

Yeah, this is a good explanation but I another way to put it fairly simply is this: lead by example. Cliche, yes, I know. But I think Rautins' unselfishness was every bit as important as all the other things he did (vocally, media, etc) combined. When you look at the guys on this team, I suppose you could question who the vocal leader will be but I feel like that's somewhat irrelevant. As long as these kids are working hard in the off-season, reporting to practice in the Fall in shape and pushing in the same direction, this will be fine.

So with that said, I think you can honestly look at what we've seen from Fair, Triche, Keita and Southerland and say, yeah, those kids will work hard and hustle when they are on the floor. It certainly appears Carter-Williams is in that same mold (and he may emerge as a more vocal guy as well). There may be some question with Xmas, but he had a decent frosh season in this regard and should improve.

We don't know with cooney and the recruits, but I think the general attitude is more important than the body language and sound bites that are often portrayed as "leadership."

 

[orangefan13]

While I like what I saw on the offensive end from DC and his body is awesome(and it was) I worry big time about defense.

I agree he boxed out and can get behind people in the post without being moved. However,
1. Despite boxing out he didn't go and get the rebounds(as some said below the rim)
2. Neither was he a shot blocking presence.
3. His lateral movement to get in front of shooters in the paint was really lacking with or without sliding
4. His recovery defense when someone passed around him was almost nonexistant. If they get behind him and screen him he would be out of the play. And Yes I know there was no help defense behind him a big reason his team lost all game. Shabazz had 8 of his first half points on dunks alone.


Those are four huge defensive things that people look for from their bigs.

I fear we might have to mask him in the zone as a freshmen which will put more pressure on his offensive capabilities.
We will have to wait and see...
1. What JB thinks. He hasn't had a offensive big play that lacked defense in the last 10 years I think.
2. If we can go on runs with Dajuan in the game. That will be the difference between 7 minutes and 20/20plus when he gets to BE play.

He ran the floor but thets see him in the zone first before we crown him any minutes.

 

[SWC75]

Playing in All-Star games as a big man generally sucks. This is kind of a lame comparison (and in no way am I saying I am/was as good at basketball as BRNCUSEFRCUSE) but I got to play in a few in HS and I was a PF and it wasn't really all that much fun.

Guards dictate everything. They'll feed you an occasional bone on a post-up or a fast break but for the most part they are looking to shoot and there you are as a big ... just running from post to post while horrible shot after horrible shot is taken. It's tough to get incredibly motivated. Your best hope is just cleaning up on the boards.

Ironically, the McDonald's All-Star game isn't about "feeding the post".

 

[SWC75]

I am thinking we will have a big body low post scorer and re-bounder like we haven't seen in a long time.

Since last year, anyway.

 

[SWC75]

yup. doubly so with MCW ability to get the low post invovled. Double team DCII... I DARE YOU!

I also look forward to our fast breaks with Coleman's outlet passes and MCW's court vision. We'll get the ball downcourt in a couple of frames of film. "Getting back" on Syracuse will be next to impossible.

 

[SBU72]

Well said, OE. I saw all I needed with about a few plays.

1)Him walking to the court. He is big, big, big, Dejuan Blair Big. Not fat.
2)He's jump stop, put the ball on the floor, and move for two. Yes, he might play below the rim but with his size, strength and skill around the basketball, the works well in college. Blair destroyed everyone by using his size and strength and with a soft touch, that is all that will mater.
3)His outlet pass. I talked about that when he was a frosh, how he threw an outlet better than any of our bigs at the time. This opens up transition.
4)He boxed out the big guy from Texas and moved him three feet for a board. That is DC, Melo, type dominance of the glass...

He's the best recruit for this program in a long time as he's instant impact but not going pro after 1 year or 2 years.

Will DC2 stay around long enough to take advantage o his size. Refs have a tendency to call it closer on freshmen than upperclassmand, so will DC@ be able to use his strenght to establish position and move to the basket next year and if not is he going to be around 2 or 3 years to be able to do so?

 

[RF2044]

Who says leaders have to be rah rah guys? Leaders lead in the style that suits them best. Those guys have demonstrated work ethic, team first attitude, discipline, maturity. That sounds like the groundwork for leadership to me.

Spot on. There are many different types of ways people can demonstrate leadership, and not all types may be situationally appropriate for the needs of the team. A group of guys who are fairly experienced and self-motivated might not need someone screaming in their faces to provide motivation, for example. Some guys are quieter than others, but lead by example. Sometimes, a player providing some calm / stability on the court is important when the going gets tough--might not be rah rah, but a guy that the team can depend on when their backs are against the wall. And you don't always have to be a senior to provide leadership [MCW, as the team's primary lead guard if it works out that way is the guy I'm thinking of].

I think the players we'll have next year will be up to the task--I honestly do.

 

[cuseincincy]

I saw what I was hoping to see form Coleman last night. A big bodied post player. His biggest problem last night is that the game was played at a fast break pace the entire game and for the most part he was the inbounder after made baskets. Not sure whose idea that was but it certainly didn't help DC2 to be the last player to start upcourt and half the time by the time he got to the foul line the ball was already going up (not many shy shooters last night). This does not mean that he is slow or doesn't hustle. DC2 would have been a great asset to this year's team due to the pace we were often forced into. Thing I really liked were his feet and hands. Displayed a soft shooting touch on a foul line jumper and also looked light on his feet a few times in the 2nd half. As others said he throws a very nice outlet pass also. He's not an above the rim guy but neither is Jared Sullinger who just repeated as a first team all american as a freshman/sophmore. He may not be as good as Sullinger, but then he might. The worst thing I saw was his rebounding position. I attribute that almost entirely to the style of game and he did pull down 12 rebounds. I think the issue there is that so many shots were being taken that normally wouldn't be that he was not ready. He led the game in rebounds so he was more ready than anybody else. He looked like he was familiar with the high post pick and roll. I don't remember him ever getting the ball back but he is going to scare some people when he takes it to the rim from 12 feet out. You would have to have a lot of courage to attempt to take a charge against him.
Although I have never seen Noel play my guess is that if we get Noel, DC2 will come off the bench. He's not going to start in front of Christmas and the #1 player in the country usually does not come off the bench. But that is OK. If we get Noel I think DC2 will still get 15-20 minutes per game and if we don't get Noel he's probably still only looking at 25 minutes or so. I think his presence is going to free Christmas up and we may see Rak explode next year. Even without Noel we are well positioned at the 4/5 next year. Add in Fair, Southerland and Grant and our frontcourt will be very strong. I envission MCW dropping several dimes to Coleman the next couple years and some rim rattling slams. He's got plenty of room for improvement but he's damn good right now.

 

[br801]

Who says leaders have to be rah rah guys? Leaders lead in the style that suits them best. Those guys have demonstrated work ethic, team first attitude, discipline, maturity. That sounds like the groundwork for leadership to me.

Great post. I think we might have a few guys that fit your description coming back next year.

 

[anglerman]

I saw what I was hoping to see form Coleman last night. A big bodied post player. His biggest problem last night is that the game was played at a fast break pace the entire game and for the most part he was the inbounder after made baskets. Not sure whose idea that was but it certainly didn't help DC2 to be the last player to start upcourt and half the time by the time he got to the foul line the ball was already going up (not many shy shooters last night). This does not mean that he is slow or doesn't hustle. DC2 would have been a great asset to this year's team due to the pace we were often forced into. Thing I really liked were his feet and hands. Displayed a soft shooting touch on a foul line jumper and also looked light on his feet a few times in the 2nd half. As others said he throws a very nice outlet pass also. He's not an above the rim guy but neither is Jared Sullinger who just repeated as a first team all american as a freshman/sophmore. He may not be as good as Sullinger, but then he might. The worst thing I saw was his rebounding position. I attribute that almost entirely to the style of game and he did pull down 12 rebounds. I think the issue there is that so many shots were being taken that normally wouldn't be that he was not ready. He led the game in rebounds so he was more ready than anybody else. He looked like he was familiar with the high post pick and roll. I don't remember him ever getting the ball back but he is going to scare some people when he takes it to the rim from 12 feet out. You would have to have a lot of courage to attempt to take a charge against him.
Although I have never seen Noel play my guess is that if we get Noel, DC2 will come off the bench. He's not going to start in front of Christmas and the #1 player in the country usually does not come off the bench. But that is OK. If we get Noel I think DC2 will still get 15-20 minutes per game and if we don't get Noel he's probably still only looking at 25 minutes or so. I think his presence is going to free Christmas up and we may see Rak explode next year. Even without Noel we are well positioned at the 4/5 next year. Add in Fair, Southerland and Grant and our frontcourt will be very strong. I envission MCW dropping several dimes to Coleman the next couple years and some rim rattling slams. He's got plenty of room for improvement but he's damn good right now.[/quote
I don't see DC as a center at all. He clearly has PF skills and mobilty. I don't see any way that he doesn't get 30 minutes a game. He's clearly better than any forward on the team right now. No way you keep a kid with his size and skill set on the bench. He will provide major match-up problems for anyone SU plays.

 

[Orangezoo]

I saw what I was hoping to see form Coleman last night. A big bodied post player. His biggest problem last night is that the game was played at a fast break pace the entire game and for the most part he was the inbounder after made baskets. Not sure whose idea that was but it certainly didn't help DC2 to be the last player to start upcourt and half the time by the time he got to the foul line the ball was already going up (not many shy shooters last night). This does not mean that he is slow or doesn't hustle. DC2 would have been a great asset to this year's team due to the pace we were often forced into. Thing I really liked were his feet and hands. Displayed a soft shooting touch on a foul line jumper and also looked light on his feet a few times in the 2nd half. As others said he throws a very nice outlet pass also. He's not an above the rim guy but neither is Jared Sullinger who just repeated as a first team all american as a freshman/sophmore. He may not be as good as Sullinger, but then he might. The worst thing I saw was his rebounding position. I attribute that almost entirely to the style of game and he did pull down 12 rebounds. I think the issue there is that so many shots were being taken that normally wouldn't be that he was not ready. He led the game in rebounds so he was more ready than anybody else. He looked like he was familiar with the high post pick and roll. I don't remember him ever getting the ball back but he is going to scare some people when he takes it to the rim from 12 feet out. You would have to have a lot of courage to attempt to take a charge against him.
Although I have never seen Noel play my guess is that if we get Noel, DC2 will come off the bench. He's not going to start in front of Christmas and the #1 player in the country usually does not come off the bench. But that is OK. If we get Noel I think DC2 will still get 15-20 minutes per game and if we don't get Noel he's probably still only looking at 25 minutes or so. I think his presence is going to free Christmas up and we may see Rak explode next year. Even without Noel we are well positioned at the 4/5 next year. Add in Fair, Southerland and Grant and our frontcourt will be very strong. I envission MCW dropping several dimes to Coleman the next couple years and some rim rattling slams. He's got plenty of room for improvement but he's damn good right now.

Good Post CIC. I was getting frustrated seeing DC2 having to inball the ball as well. Did not make sense and basically gave the east team no post presence when Coleman was in there as he was trailing the play. To those criticizing his defense, its hard to be in position when not one perimeter player was staying in front of their man. When defense became important in the last five minutes or so .. you saw his ability to use his length to get into the passing lanes and his ability to move his meet to keep people in front of him. On offense I thought he was very impressive. He pinned his man nearly every time he posted and drew the attention of the perimeter defender to open up the driving lanes. When he was given the ball in a position he could do something with it, there was no hesitation whatsoever and he just attacked. He is no Carmelo, but he attacked quickly and effectively in the post much like Melo used to do. Considering he was playing with one of the weakest burger boy PG's (Lewis) I have seen in a while and with the out of control guys in the game in Poythress.. he was solid. On the boards is where you can see his conditioning needs some work.. luckily we have athletes to help him there when the ball is outside his area. Otherwise when its near him and he can get his big paws on it.. that is his rebound. The soft jumpshot is promising.. and critical for a guy who throws his weight around like he does. This will keep defenders honest. The outlet pass capability is a huge positive, and it might allow the zone to consistantly leak one player out while four crash considering DC2 is throwing the outlet. On another note I couldnt be happier for UK to be landing Poythress.. a strong yet low bball IQ ballhog .. I gladly support his choice of school. Hopefully Bazz.. goes out west.

 

[jdubs30]

Coleman would have been a monster in the Big East.

However, I'm not sure the ACC takes kindly to those big bruiser-types, especially vs. Duke and UNC.

 

[RF2044]

Coleman would have been a monster in the Big East.

However, I'm not sure the ACC takes kindly to those big bruiser-types, especially vs. Duke and UNC.

Sean May? :noidea: