Coleman / Obokoh

[jordoo]

Rak averaged 34.3 minutes a game last year.

He would have averaged 39 last season if he was never in foul trouble. Other than a couple early OOC laughers we had a big drop off without him especially once Chris went down and could not back up the 5.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Rak was pretty much healthy during his career, one of the most athletic guys we've ever had, and never had a knee surgery let along two. I'd be willing to bet anything that DC doesn't average 30 over the course of every game.

I'm not worried about DC's health.

I'm worried about foul trouble.

I'd be happy with 25 minutes.

 

[Jasoncuse]

I like the optimism, but I can't imagine DC averaging anywhere near 35 minutes a game. And if he for some reason did, it might increase the risk for an Arinze-like loss during or heading into the tournaments. I see no reason why Boeheim wouldn't spread out the center minutes more (maybe 6-8 for Obokoh, and about the same with Roberson in there, maybe). I know Boeheim scoffs at the charges that he wears down his players too much, but is there really a history of him using anybody at center for 35 minutes over the course of a season?

I'd be pretty surprised if DC averages 25 minutes per game. In fact, I could see him playing less than 20 mpg. Christmas could run all day and was 10x the athlete DC is, on top of being healthy. No way DC sees that kind of run.

He may be healthy and may indeed be ready for a huge workload, but he's also a guy that will be monitored. ANYTHING that pops up should give the staff the utmost caution when deciding how much he plays.

I think he'll also be foul prone, especially as teams will see him as the only viable center option and will attack, attack, attack. If our Guard defense is terrible again, DC will bare the brunt of it.

 

[two3zone]

I'm not worried about DC's health.

I'm worried about foul trouble.

I'd be happy with 25 minutes.

If we can get 25 out of him, I'd be really happy. I'm guessing 20 should give us good with Dainge and Chin filling up the rest and I'd be good.

I'm really rooting for DC, if he can do 20-25 this year, then 30 his senior year when we're totally reloaded it would be crazy to think we're not a contender to be the #1 team in the country.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I'd be pretty surprised if DC averages 25 minutes per game. In fact, I could see him playing less than 20 mpg. Christmas could run all day and was 10x the athlete DC is, on top of being healthy. No way DC sees that kind of run.

He may be healthy and may indeed be ready for a huge workload, but he's also a guy that will be monitored. ANYTHING that pops up should give the staff the utmost caution when deciding how much he plays.

I think he'll also be foul prone, especially as teams will see him as the only viable center option and will attack, attack, attack. If our Guard defense is terrible again, DC will bare the brunt of it.

Can't agree more. It's frankly asinine to think or expect Coleman to play 30-35 mpg, imo. There is simply no logic to support that take.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I don't disagree. Who would you consider a bust and by what criteria?

I'd define more by if they made it/lasted, and how they performed against expectations.

Winfred Walton since he never made it here. I thought he would have been awesome for us.

Josh Wright was a bust. Underperformed and quit.

Paul Harris was a high end bust in terms of production. Lot of drama, wasn't the transcendent player he was expected to be, although that was probably unfair.

 

[two3zone]

I'd define more by if they made it/lasted, and how they performed against expectations.

Winfred Walton since he never made it here. I thought he would have been awesome for us.

Josh Wright was a bust. Underperformed and quit.

Paul Harris was a high end bust in terms of production. Lot of drama, wasn't the transcendent player he was expected to be, although that was probably unfair.

This is where I am when considering busts. Granted Coleman had injuries but I think he was on his way to being a bust, but I honestly don't know, he could have gotten better that's why I couldn't call him one.

We have been lucky, we really haven't had too many busts, even the guys who kind of were put up some important production, guys like Harris, Roberts, Watkins, etc etc. While they didn't live up to expectations they were still very valuable to our teams.

 

[jordoo]

I'd define more by if they made it/lasted, and how they performed against expectations.

Winfred Walton since he never made it here. I thought he would have been awesome for us.

Josh Wright was a bust. Underperformed and quit.

Paul Harris was a high end bust in terms of production. Lot of drama, wasn't the transcendent player he was expected to be, although that was probably unfair.

Its hard for me to call Harris a bust. I agree he certainly did not live up to the hype coming in but he was a very productive player for us. He had his issues, he had limitations to his game and ultimately he was not a great fit for our system since he lacked the overall shooting and guard skills to play the 2G for us.

 

[Knicks411]

I'd define more by if they made it/lasted, and how they performed against expectations.

Winfred Walton since he never made it here. I thought he would have been awesome for us.

Josh Wright was a bust. Underperformed and quit.

Paul Harris was a high end bust in terms of production. Lot of drama, wasn't the transcendent player he was expected to be, although that was probably unfair.

I think Harris is right on the border of a bust? He definitely wasn't the player he was expected to be, but he was a pretty good player for 3 years. Though maybe the fact that he was pretty much asked to leave the program with a year of eligibility left should tell you something.

Josh Wright of course. Dayshawn also? McCroskey?

I almost feel like unless you're expected to be Anthony Davis or something, if you stay here for 3 or 4 years and play pretty serious minutes I don't think I can consider you a bust. But I may be a lenient grader.

 

[jordoo]

This is where I am when considering busts. Granted Coleman had injuries but I think he was on his way to being a bust, but I honestly don't know, he could have gotten better that's why I couldn't call him one.

We have been lucky, we really haven't had too many busts, even the guys who kind of were put up some important production, guys like Harris, Roberts, Watkins, etc etc. While they didn't live up to expectations they were still very valuable to our teams.

I agree in general very few out and out busts. There have been some but not many. We have however had a ton of guys who didn't live up to the hype but were still productive rotational players. We've had some really good players that were not hyped at all as well though.

As far as Coleman I can understand why someone could reasonably say he was on his way to being a bust. That said big guys generally take more time and regular reps to blossom other than a select few. Coleman's knee's have not really allowed him either. How long was his knee bothering him as as freshman before they shut him down and he had surgery? As a sophomore they shut him down before conference season if I recall and that was coming off a summer of rehab. Then he had the OATS procedure and almost 2 years of rehab. He showed some good things when he played, he showed some bad things. He showed some pretty standard inexperienced big guy things. I guess a case could be made in a lot of directions. I do know he has worked hard and endured basically 3 years of surgery and rehabs. I hope he stays healthy and gets to put all that to good use on the court this year.

 

[Brooky03]

I'd be pretty surprised if DC averages 25 minutes per game. In fact, I could see him playing less than 20 mpg. Christmas could run all day and was 10x the athlete DC is, on top of being healthy. No way DC sees that kind of run.

He may be healthy and may indeed be ready for a huge workload, but he's also a guy that will be monitored. ANYTHING that pops up should give the staff the utmost caution when deciding how much he plays.

I think he'll also be foul prone, especially as teams will see him as the only viable center option and will attack, attack, attack. If our Guard defense is terrible again, DC will bare the brunt of it.

I don't see him getting in foul trouble. He's not an aggressive defender like Rak was and he doesn't leave his feet much for blocks.

 

[two3zone]

I don't see him getting in foul trouble. He's not an aggressive defender like Rak was and he doesn't leave his feet much for blocks.

Believe it or not, but per/40 minutes Coleman has a higher foul rate than Rak did.

 

[rrlbees]

I'd define more by if they made it/lasted, and how they performed against expectations. Winfred Walton since he never made it here. I thought he would have been awesome for us. Josh Wright was a bust. Underperformed and quit. Paul Harris was a high end bust in terms of production. Lot of drama, wasn't the transcendent player he was expected to be, although that was probably unfair.

Busts are in the eye of the beholder. The expectations of Harris for example were set ridiculously high by the fans. This boards community went nuts with over the top expectations.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Can't agree more. It's frankly asinine to think or expect Coleman to play 30-35 mpg, imo. There is simply no logic to support that take.

pfister1 in post #159 states his reasoning. What pfister states is he thinks those big minutes are in line for DC2 because he is a 4th yr player, reported to be in great condition/health, has no one behind him, and it's JB's MO. Sounds like he supported his position with some logic. Not saying I agree with it, but it is something to ponder.

What's asinine IMO, is when people resort to name calling and can't engage in reasonable discussion.

 

[Brooky03]

Believe it or not, but per/40 minutes Coleman has a higher foul rate than Rak did.

Well yeah, when he was out of position all the time because he was a freshman and fat. I don't expect him to be nearly as lost when he comes back and most accounts say he's much slimmer (probably quicker) than he was.

 

[two3zone]

Well yeah, when he was out of position all the time because he was a freshman and fat. I don't expect him to be nearly as lost when he comes back and most accounts say he's much slimmer (probably quicker) than he was.

His sophomore year he was in great shape and not fat according to this board when I called him fat and out of shape and he made more fouls per/40 than his freshman year.

http://syracusefan.com/threads/coleman.62474/#post-825011

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/dajuan-coleman-1.html

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Its hard for me to call Harris a bust. I agree he certainly did not live up to the hype coming in but he was a very productive player for us. He had his issues, he had limitations to his game and ultimately he was not a great fit for our system since he lacked the overall shooting and guard skills to play the 2G for us.

I think Harris is right on the border of a bust? He definitely wasn't the player he was expected to be, but he was a pretty good player for 3 years. Though maybe the fact that he was pretty much asked to leave the program with a year of eligibility left should tell you something.

Josh Wright of course. Dayshawn also? McCroskey?

I almost feel like unless you're expected to be Anthony Davis or something, if you stay here for 3 or 4 years and play pretty serious minutes I don't think I can consider you a bust. But I may be a lenient grader.

Busts are in the eye of the beholder. The expectations of Harris for example were set ridiculously high by the fans. This boards community went nuts with over the top expectations.

Thus, I view Harris as a "high end bust." You can win a lot with that kind of a player.

 

[jordoo]

He fouled a lot, its not really debatable. He will have to do better to stay on the floor. My memory of his fouling was two fold. First he was often caught with the body bump after being out of position and 2nd he had a tendency to bring is arms down over the offensive player as they attempted to elevate. I do think better conditioning, less weight and a better understanding of where to be should help with positioning but he's still got to move his feet better to get where he needs to be. The arms coming down seemed like a bad habit much like bringing the ball down on offense.

 

[Jasoncuse]

I don't see him getting in foul trouble. He's not an aggressive defender like Rak was and he doesn't leave his feet much for blocks.

He'd better have some aggressiveness on the defensive end. If our guards struggle up top again, he's going to be dealing with a lot of drives or drives and dishes to an interior player. He's gotta play some defense, and that's going to lead to fouls, especially if his D hasn't improved in the 2 years he hasn't played.

I also think he's had a rough time avoiding offensive fouls. His brute strength and overall lack of quickness lead him to try overpowering his defender. He's going to get called for those, whether they are legit or not.

 

[LoudHouse]

I'd define more by if they made it/lasted, and how they performed against expectations.

Winfred Walton since he never made it here. I thought he would have been awesome for us.

Josh Wright was a bust. Underperformed and quit.

Paul Harris was a high end bust in terms of production. Lot of drama, wasn't the transcendent player he was expected to be, although that was probably unfair.

Dashonte Riley was a definite bust. He was touted pretty highly coming in (I believe top 60 or so in a few recruiting sites). Heck, up until his senior year you could make the case that Rak was a bust, given the hype surrounding him coming into SU. I only bring that up because it's proof that Coleman COULD see a dramatic improvement in his game. Not saying it's a given.

 

[RoatanCuse]

One thing about DC and playing time. I fully expect that he will play 35 minutes per game this coming season. He is basically a fourth year veteran player with no one really behind him. It is JB's M.O. for that kind of guy to play huge minutes. The only thing that will prevent him from logging basically all of the minutes at center is health problems or an inability to avoid foul trouble. He is supposedly in the best shape of his life, so I don't think he is going to need a lot of rest time on the bench unless his knees can't take the pounding of full games. If the knees become a problem I suspect they will result in him missing games not sitting stretches within games. So while we are thin at center, I think we are ok unless DC's body doesn't hold up or he can't stay out of foul trouble.

Good points, pfister, and all true. However, it is unfortunate that we all just have to sit back and wait. We can hope for 35 min., 30, 25 or whatever. But the bottom line is that none of us "know" anything at this point. There are too many "if's" with DC...and I wish him well. Expectations, hope, etc. are all just guesses at this juncture, I am afraid. But it helps pass the summer. Good post.

 

[OttoMets]

Well yeah, when he was out of position all the time because he was a freshman and fat. I don't expect him to be nearly as lost when he comes back and most accounts say he's much slimmer (probably quicker) than he was.

No doubt, the conditioning created a huge defensive problem during his freshman year (and to some extent as a sophomore - he's much more fit right now). But I think Coleman's lack of game experience will present an equally big challenge this season; most junior centers have had a ton of court time to get the perception and muscle memory locked in. He doesn't have that.

Someone who's worked so hard deserves to have a great season, so I hope it all comes together. Right now, though, he's a recently-injured kid who we know to have limited experience and some flawed fundamentals.

 

[cuseattle]

NYS player of the year Hawkins was a bust, but his teams were good!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Dashonte Riley was a definite bust. He was touted pretty highly coming in (I believe top 60 or so in a few recruiting sites). Heck, up until his senior year you could make the case that Rak was a bust, given the hype surrounding him coming into SU. I only bring that up because it's proof that Coleman COULD see a dramatic improvement in his game. Not saying it's a given.

Agree on Dash Riley. I thought he was going to be a difference maker. Instead he left and it didn't make a difference. So it goes.

Rak I would not have considered a bust, because even though he made a huge leap as a senior, I'm convinced he was a much better overall player than he was given the green light to show.

 

[Knicks411]

Dash for sure is a good one.
I think after his junior year I would have called Rak one, but there probably is a lot to the fact that he wasn't allowed to really show what he had till hi senior year.