Coleman / Obokoh

[rrlbees]

Dash for sure is a good one. I think after his junior year I would have called Rak one, but there probably is a lot to the fact that he wasn't allowed to really show what he had till hi senior year.

Can't agree with the "wasn't allowed" mindset.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Can't agree with the "wasn't allowed" mindset.

Well, I can't agree with the "he was allowed" mindset, so there.

 

[ssbriefcase]

I'm on the side Rak wasn't capable on O, until he was a senior. That's why he was one of the most dramatically improved players to ever play on the hill.

 

[two3zone]

I'm on the side Rak wasn't capable on O, until he was a senior. That's why he was one of the most dramatically improved players to ever play on the hill.

A lot of the moves he showed as a junior he did as a senior, he just got the ball a ton more. He would have position on his guy almost every time down the court as a junior and he still didn't see the ball. You don't improve THAT much in 6 months.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Rak may have had the skill before his Senior year, but I don't think he had that Alpha attitude that gave him the ability to take over games as a Senior.

 

[two3zone]

Rak may have had the skill before his Senior year, but I don't think he had that Alpha attitude that gave him the ability to take over games as a Senior.

How could you show an alpha attitude when you get the ball in the post when you're open 4-5 times a game? It's all nonsense and it was called up 100 times during his junior year about how he should get the ball more when Ennis, Cooney, G, Fair, and pretty much everybody on the team could score a basket when we had a guy shooting over 60% in the post who was open constantly that never touched the ball.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Its hard for me to call Harris a bust. I agree he certainly did not live up to the hype coming in but he was a very productive player for us. He had his issues, he had limitations to his game and ultimately he was not a great fit for our system since he lacked the overall shooting and guard skills to play the 2G for us.

Agree on Harris. Certainly not a bust. He just was a PF skill set trapped in a SG height. He was very productive at times.

 

[rrlbees]

Rak may have had the skill before his Senior year, but I don't think he had that Alpha attitude that gave him the ability to take over games as a Senior.

Well said and very close to what a coach said to me. He improved every year on the mental aspect of the game and just how good he could be. It all worked out in the end for him and that's a testament to him and the coaches and he's now being rewarded with an NBA career. Hope it's a long successful one.

 

[SoBeCuse]

pfister1 in post #159 states his reasoning. What pfister states is he thinks those big minutes are in line for DC2 because he is a 4th yr player, reported to be in great condition/health, has no one behind him, and it's JB's MO. Sounds like he supported his position with some logic. Not saying I agree with it, but it is something to ponder.

What's asinine IMO, is when people resort to name calling and can't engage in reasonable discussion.

Everything so far re: Coleman has been reasonable discussion. No name calling has transpired. Cry me a river! Pfister and others can predict all they want. Simply predictions. I'm just saying there has been no evidence in Coleman's tenure here to suggest anything beyond the ceiling of say, VERY cautious optimism. Like I mentioned in my first post; I'm cheering for the kid.

 

[jordoo]

Agree on Harris. Certainly not a bust. He just was a PF skill set trapped in a SG height. He was very productive at times.

Exactly PF but 2G size for our system. If we had the right matchup he could be really effective offensively and he was an amazing rebounder for his size although playing a 6-4 guy on the back line left us at a disadvantage in other ways.

 

[ssbriefcase]

A lot of the moves he showed as a junior he did as a senior, he just got the ball a ton more. He would have position on his guy almost every time down the court as a junior and he still didn't see the ball. You don't improve THAT much in 6 months.

I don't buy into the whole "he doesn't get the ball" story his junior year. When he did, he did next to nothing with it. He missed point blank layups, etc. That's why they stopped giving it to him, because they couldn't rely on him. Like a qb going to a wr and he drops passes, the qb will figure out another option.

 

[two3zone]

I don't buy into the whole "he doesn't get the ball" story his junior year. When he did, he did next to nothing with it. He missed point blank layups, etc. That's why they stopped giving it to him, because they couldn't rely on him. Like a qb going to a wr and he drops passes, the qb will figure out another option.

Must not have missed too many point blank layups as he shot better as a Jr than as a Sr. Look at the numbers, he didn't get the ball.

 

[ssbriefcase]

Must not have missed too many point blank layups as he shot better as a Jr than as a Sr. Look at the numbers, he didn't get the ball.

I watched all the games like almost everyone here. I wouldn't have passed him the ball either his junior year.

 

[two3zone]

I watched all the games like almost everyone here. I wouldn't have passed him the ball either his junior year.

So freeze the ball from the guy with the best % of hitting shots when Fair, Ennis, and Cooney couldn't score at all mid range?

Why wouldn't you give him the ball? I'm curious, was the .613 shooting percentage not good good enough? Wasn't because of turnovers because he only averaged 1.3 per 40. So please tell me why Rak wasn't an option as a junior.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Xmas fg%

2014 61

2015 52

 

[HOFCeluck]

...and if you are able to develop an "alpha" mentality in six months, Wes Johnson would probably live to have a word with you.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Everything so far re: Coleman has been reasonable discussion. No name calling has transpired. Cry me a river! Pfister and others can predict all they want. Simply predictions. I'm just saying there has been no evidence in Coleman's tenure here to suggest anything beyond the ceiling of say, VERY cautious optimism. Like I mentioned in my first post; I'm cheering for the kid.

No need to apologize to me, it was pfister's post you called asinine.

If Diagne doesn't show, there is certainly a huge case to be made for big minutes for DC2. Even in DC2's limited tenure he has shown to be miles better than Chino. JB has previously shown loyalty to upperclassman, and DC2 who was one of the rare "token start" exceptions.

JB has shown many times that he may not sit players for rest purposes. It is certainly possible that DC2's time on the bench could be primarily foul driven.

I agree with "cautious optimism" but not based on talent, but based on DC2's knees.

 

[two3zone]

No need to apologize to me, it was pfister's post you called asinine.

If Diagne doesn't show, there is certainly a huge case to be made for big minutes for DC2. Even in DC2's limited tenure he has shown to be miles better than Chino. JB has previously shown loyalty to upperclassman, and DC2 who was one of the rare "token start" exceptions.

JB has shown many times that he may not sit players for rest purposes. It is certainly possible that DC2's time on the bench could be primarily foul driven.

I agree with "cautious optimism" but not based on talent, but based on DC2's knees.

It wasn't just foul driven and that's straight from JAB's mouth, he was horrid on defense and not able to stay out there.

At some point you do have to question his talent, even while healthy and playing he had major flaws and how do you really get an idea of his talent when the last time he was really successful on the court he was playing high school against very bad talent in the CNY area.

 

[LoudHouse]

As far as Rak goes, I kinda agree with both sides. He definitely proved he COULD play well as a junior. I remember a couple games when I thought, wow this guy has tons of potential. But far, far too many games he would be incredibly passive. He didn't demand the ball like he did as a senior, and when he did get it, he was still only 50/50 on whether he'd try and score or pass out to a shooter.

I mean, his per 40 numbers as a junior were very similar to his per 40 numbers as a freshman and sophomore in terms of scoring. That to me shows that he didn't make the huge leap until his senior season, and I do think a lot of that had to do with his mentality changing, along with the tremendous amount of work he put into his game in the off-season.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

It wasn't just foul driven and that's straight from JAB's mouth, he was horrid on defense and not able to stay out there.

At some point you do have to question his talent, even while healthy and playing he had major flaws and how do you really get an idea of his talent when the last time he was really successful on the court he was playing high school against very bad talent in the CNY area.

DC2 is miles better than Chino and that is who the backup center will be minus Diagne (let's just table the TR nonsense). You think JB is going to give developmental minutes to Chino, or try to maximize DC2's time out there in a foul protection type way?

You think Chino is going to beat out DC2? Really??

It's not so much the talent of DC2 as it is the vast dropoff in talent to Chino.

 

[two3zone]

DC2 is miles better than Chino and that is who the backup center will be minus Diagne (let's just table the TR nonsense). You think JB is going to give developmental minutes to Chino, or try to maximize DC2's time out there in a foul protection type way?

You think Chino is going to beat out DC2? Really??

It's not so much the talent of DC2 as it is the vast dropoff in talent to Chino.

Where did I ever mention Chino at all in this discussion? What BS are you trying to make up to prove your point?

If anything Moustafa is going to get the minutes that DC doesn't play and if he isn't eligible that's why we're in a ton of trouble. A dude with two knee surgeries and who hasn't played a game in almost two years isn't a good situation to be in. DC is not a horse to ride 30 minutes a game, and if you do ride him for 30 a game, you can't be shocked if he breaks down.

 

[SoBeCuse]

No need to apologize to me, it was pfister's post you called asinine.

If Diagne doesn't show, there is certainly a huge case to be made for big minutes for DC2. Even in DC2's limited tenure he has shown to be miles better than Chino. JB has previously shown loyalty to upperclassman, and DC2 who was one of the rare "token start" exceptions.

JB has shown many times that he may not sit players for rest purposes. It is certainly possible that DC2's time on the bench could be primarily foul driven.

I agree with "cautious optimism" but not based on talent, but based on DC2's knees.

I'm not and will not apologize to anyone, lol. Saying a post is asinine and directly calling a poster an idiot or an ass are two different things. Bunch of sissies here.

 

[ssbriefcase]

As far as Rak goes, I kinda agree with both sides. He definitely proved he COULD play well as a junior. I remember a couple games when I thought, wow this guy has tons of potential. But far, far too many games he would be incredibly passive. He didn't demand the ball like he did as a senior, and when he did get it, he was still only 50/50 on whether he'd try and score or pass out to a shooter.

I mean, his per 40 numbers as a junior were very similar to his per 40 numbers as a freshman and sophomore in terms of scoring. That to me shows that he didn't make the huge leap until his senior season, and I do think a lot of that had to do with his mentality changing, along with the tremendous amount of work he put into his game in the off-season.

And that's why you can't go with just numbers as in his jr yr % was higher than his senior. Of course if you only pass him the ball on point blanks and dunks and limit his touches, his % sure as hell should be high.

 

[two3zone]

And that's why you can't go with just numbers as in his jr yr % was higher than his senior. Of course if you only pass him the ball on point blanks and dunks and limit his touches, his % sure as hell should be high.

But I thought he missed point blank layups all the time? The numbers prove that isn't correct.

 

[NineOneSeven]

He had/has solid post moves. It seems that the biggest question other than his health is whether or not he figured out to keep the ball chest level. I would assume he has, but I'll agree it's still a question mark. Considering this is basically the same thing as asking if he can play to his size, I count like 3 question marks. Is that a lot? IDK, maybe.

I would think a player with a lot of questions marks would be one who seemed hopeless and then sat out 2 years, not a top level recruit who played reasonably close to expectations (unless people thought he was going to be an offensive machine) in limited run.

His second biggest question mark is he is undersized. The end.