Coleman / Obokoh | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

Coleman / Obokoh

But I thought he missed point blank layups all the time? The numbers prove that isn't correct.
Numbers, numbers, numbers. I never said all the time. I said I watched him miss them and no doubt he did. And he was not good w the ball and I wouldn't have gave him it other than point blank open looks either. His teammates weren't dumb and neither are the coaches.
 
Numbers, numbers, numbers. I never said all the time. I said I watched him miss them and no doubt he did. And he was not good w the ball and I wouldn't have gave him it other than point blank open looks either. His teammates weren't dumb and neither are the coaches.

Numbers don't matter? Ummmmmm, sure.....

Not good with the ball? He turned the ball over less his junior year than he did as a senior per 40 minutes and even as a junior he was given kudos by almost everybody with his outlet passing.

Maybe they weren't dumb, but it wasn't exactly smart to keep going to the mid range jumper with somebody in your face when you had a guy with position in the post not getting the ball.
 
Numbers don't matter? Ummmmmm, sure...

Not good with the ball? He turned the ball over less his junior year than he did as a senior per 40 minutes and even as a junior he was given kudos by almost everybody with his outlet passing.

Maybe they weren't dumb, but it wasn't exactly smart to keep going to the mid range jumper with somebody in your face when you had a guy with position in the post not getting the ball.
Good lord man. Numbers by themselves no. They miss a lot of what's really going on, on the court. And I'm not talking turnovers. I'm talking offense. They played the smartest ball they could. Just because they didn't make jumpers doesn't mean that Giving the ball to Rak was the answer.
 
But I thought he missed point blank layups all the time? The numbers prove that isn't correct.
No, all the numbers prove is that he had an incredibly small sample size as a junior, compared to a senior when he was a workhorse. It is a given that his shooting percentage was going to decrease dramatically when he went from the fourth option on offense to the first option, and was routinely double-teamed on every play. I love statistics, but you can use them to prove or disprove anything you want.

For instance, the whole turnover debate: when you are only playing 20 minutes a game, and are not focused on by any defense, you are going to turn the ball over considerably less than when you are playing 35 minutes a game and being double teamed almost every play. That proves nothing, other than that he had a MUCH higher usage rate as a senior and therefore was inevitably going to turn the ball over more.
 
No, all the numbers prove is that he had an incredibly small sample size as a junior, compared to a senior when he was a workhorse. It is a given that his shooting percentage was going to decrease dramatically when he went from the fourth option on offense to the first option, and was routinely double-teamed on every play. I love statistics, but you can use them to prove or disprove anything you want.

For instance, the whole turnover debate: when you are only playing 20 minutes a game, and are not focused on by any defense, you are going to turn the ball over considerably less than when you are playing 35 minutes a game and being double teamed almost every play. That proves nothing, other than that he had a MUCH higher usage rate as a senior and therefore was inevitably going to turn the ball over more.

You're right, his shooting % did decrease. Fact is they didn't feed him the ball and he didn't have a chance his 3rd year here.
 
Good lord man. Numbers by themselves no. They miss a lot of what's really going on, on the court. And I'm not talking turnovers. I'm talking offense. They played the smartest ball they could. Just because they didn't make jumpers doesn't mean that Giving the ball to Rak was the answer.

You really think that was the smartest ball we could play? Ignore the inside game completely and shoot contested mid range jumpers?

Whatever the answer was, it surely wasn't what we were doing during that historical collapse after 25-0.
 
You really think that was the smartest ball we could play? Ignore the inside game completely and shoot contested mid range jumpers?

Whatever the answer was, it surely wasn't what we were doing during that historical collapse after 25-0.
There was no inside game, that's my point.
 
Rak averaged 5.8 ppg as a junior that is about 2.5 buckets per game, and he averaged over one made freethrow a game. How many of those do you think came from inside position,dunks,layups and putbacks on average with his athletic skill? Of course his fg percentage would be high. He also averaged three times the attempts as a senior in less minutes per game, with three less games and over 4 made freethrows as opposed to 1 shooting the same percentage from the stripe.

I could be wrong but it appeared to me He wasn't as good of a hook shooter his junior year. He actually took some two handed jumpshots as a senior.
But what really opened him from 4th option to 1st, was his ability to go left as a senior and that one handed fast left hook which were not in his arsenal as a junior. Rak learned to go left before right as a senior and capitalize off that, he didn't show that his junior year.

Not to mention he drew doubles sometimes triples his entire senior year, I just don't see the comparison. If Rak was even nearly as good as a Junior, The ball would have went to rak first just to see if he drew doubles then back to Fair and if Fair got doubled that would have opened things up for Cooney more often. Best of all Ennis would have looked to slash like a half court transition 2g more into the lane off a kickout pass, instead of slowing it down to throw the entry pass first every touch.

Isolation/post up(same thing) isn't a privilege its a skill. Either you have it or you don't. Jr Rak was like Soph Roberson in that manner.
 
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Rak averaged 5.8 ppg as a junior that is about 2.5 buckets per game, and he averaged over one made freethrow a game. How many of those do you think came from inside position,dunks,layups and putbacks on average with his athletic skill? Of course his fg percentage would be high. He also averaged three times the attempts as a senior in less minutes per game, with three less games and over 4 made freethrows as opposed to 1 shooting the same percentage from the stripe.

I could be wrong but it appeared to me He wasn't as good of a hook shooter his junior year. He actually took some two handed jumpshots as a senior.
But what really opened him from 4th option to 1st, was his ability to go left as a senior and that one handed fast left hook which were not in his arsenal as a junior. Rak learned to go left before right as a senior and capitalize off that, he didn't show that his junior year.

Not to mention he drew doubles sometimes triples his entire senior year, I just don't see the comparison. If Rak was even nearly as good as a Junior, The ball would have went to rak first just to see if he drew doubles then back to Fair and if Fair got doubled that would have opened things up for Cooney more often. Best of all Ennis would have looked to slash like a half court transition 2g more into the lane off a kickout pass, instead of slowing it down to throw the entry pass first every touch.

Isolation/post up(same thing) isn't a privilege its a skill. Either you have it or you don't. Jr Rak was like Soph Roberson in that manner.

So in 6 months he went from a non factor into an all american? Wow!
 
two3 in an argument in a thread... what a surprise... seems like you live for getting into a spat on here man sheesh...



Clearly Rak's talent was there JR year. I do agree with the Alpha mentality transgression into his SR year. As a freshman he was a passive kid from a carribbean culture. In both of his Soph/Jr years you saw flashes of aggression and a sign of wanting it more and a general understanding that those traits were necessary if he was going to start reaching some of that potential.

JR year he certainly posted up for position but wasn't demanding the ball or getting a lot of attention from his backcourt. Given the fact we started off on an incredible win streak ( be it a bubble set to burst or not) you could attribute some of his limited role to that very fact. We were winning games ugly or not so why change something for the sake of it?

The Alpha mentality his SR year was simply him putting t he final pieces together that were building for 3 years. Couple that with more polished footwork and stronger finishing and you got an awesome SR year.
 
Orangezoo said:
two3 in an argument in a thread... what a surprise... seems like you live for getting into a spat on here man sheesh... Clearly Rak's talent was there JR year. I do agree with the Alpha mentality transgression into his SR year. As a freshman he was a passive kid from a carribbean culture. In both of his Soph/Jr years you saw flashes of aggression and a sign of wanting it more and a general understanding that those traits were necessary if he was going to start reaching some of that potential. JR year he certainly posted up for position but wasn't demanding the ball or getting a lot of attention from his backcourt. Given the fact we started off on an incredible win streak ( be it a bubble set to burst or not) you could attribute some of his limited role to that very fact. We were winning games ugly or not so why change something for the sake of it? The Alpha mentality his SR year was simply him putting t he final pieces together that were building for 3 years. Couple that with more polished footwork and stronger finishing and you got an awesome SR year.

I don't know why some people think they know more than what the coaches have said. You outlined it pretty good.
 
I'd define more by if they made it/lasted, and how they performed against expectations.

Winfred Walton since he never made it here. I thought he would have been awesome for us.

Josh Wright was a bust. Underperformed and quit.

Paul Harris was a high end bust in terms of production. Lot of drama, wasn't the transcendent player he was expected to be, although that was probably unfair.

I don't disagree. But there was sure a lot hype around DC. The knee problems are a tough break.
 
I don't know why some people think they know more than what the coaches have said. You outlined it pretty good.


It is pretty amazing how much better and how fast somebody can transform from being passing to a "alpha" in just 6 months. It's hard to be an "alpha" or have a "want it" attitude when you don't have the ball in your hands and you're ignored on offense.

Yes, because what coaches say is 100% true all of the time, they can say anything they want, it doesn't make it right. I'm not saying what right and what's wrong, but the fact is he didn't get the ball his Jr. year and he did his senior year. Are those not facts? I'm trying to figure out how the numbers lie.
 
two3zone said:
It is pretty amazing how much better and how fast somebody can transform from being passing to a "alpha" in just 6 months. It's hard to be an "alpha" or have a "want it" attitude when you don't have the ball in your hands and you're ignored on offense. Yes, because what coaches say is 100% true all of the time, they can say anything they want, it doesn't make it right. I'm not saying what right and what's wrong, but the fact is he didn't get the ball his Jr. year and he did his senior year. Are those not facts? I'm trying to figure out how the numbers lie.

He didn't go from 0 to 100 in 6 months. It was a slow growth process. More like 25, 50, 75 and 100 and that last 25% is when it all came together in his head and when it all comes together it appears he made a quantum leap.
 
He didn't go from 0 to 100 in 6 months. It was a slow growth process. More like 25, 50, 75 and 100 and that last 25% is when it all came together in his head and when it all comes together it appears he made a quantum leap.

Love the avatar! BTW I tend to think its a bit of both. Rak could have been utilized more as a Junior but he certainly wasn't as pollished and as has been stated over and over he wasn't demanding or focussed on being an offensive force. Senior Rakeem would have gotten in Ennis and Cooneys ear for not hitting him when he established position. Junior Rak never said a thing and sometimes passed back out when he had the ball where he wanted it, that never happened as a senior because he pressed every advantage.
 
... Rak could have been utilized more as a Junior but he certainly wasn't as pollished and as has been stated over and over he wasn't demanding or focussed on being an offensive force. Senior Rakeem would have gotten in Ennis and Cooneys ear for not hitting him when he established position. Junior Rak never said a thing and sometimes passed back out when he had the ball where he wanted it, that never happened as a senior because he pressed every advantage.


What I haven't seen mentioned here is the "reward the Senior" factor.

CJ Fair came back and earned a chance to shine for his professional audition.

If JB put the spotlight on Rak his junior year that would have been just one more guy leaving early.
 
Does anyone know if DC is even capably of playing at this point?
 
He is currently completely healthy and has been playing pickup games with the other players without any swelling.

That's good news. How do you come by this information? Do you have a link to any article. I have not seen anything reported on DC.
 
That's good news. How do you come by this information? Do you have a link to any article. I have not seen anything reported on DC.

There have been articles. DC2, MikeG, JB'sArmy ect. Also word on the streets type stuff.
 
That's good news. How do you come by this information? Do you have a link to any article. I have not seen anything reported on DC.
If you look at back posts, you will see that other players who have been working out and playing with DC have been Very complimentary regarding his game.
 

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