Conference ranking bone to pick...

[cuseincincy]

In full disclosure I have not done a really deep dive into all inter- conference records. But I believe have dug enough enough to come up with a valid question. How in the wide wide world of sports is the Mountain West Conference ranked ahead of the ACC, Pac 12 and Big East? Utah St and New Mexico are the top 2 teams and between them have played exactly one game against teams from the rest of the top 7 conferences (Utah St beat St Louis). The next best team is Boise St. They are 1-4 against the other top conferences. I understand some of the weaknesses of the RPI but it should have most of the inter-conference games analyzed at this point. What am I missing?

 

[NineOneSeven]

No idea but picking against Boise St in the tournament first round is a sure fire hit.

 

[orangenauburn]

 

[orangenauburn]

 

[cusefan88]

You basically schedule cupcakes in the non-conf to boost your NET ranking then all the conference games theoretically become Quad 1 and 2.

What's interesting is that a lot of people are now commenting on this and i could see committee knocking Big 12/MWC on this.

 

[CousCuse]

The Mountain West is the best conference in college basketball. They have the best coaches with great talent and play a great style of ball. Air Force is an outlier in that league who should probably play in the WAC or WCC, but the other 10 teams are all real good to excellant.

 

[orange79]

The Mountain West is the best conference in college basketball. They have the best coaches with great talent and play a great style of ball. Air Force is an outlier in that league who should probably play in the WAC or WCC, but the other 10 teams are all real good to excellant.

Yeah, that Fresno State team is really good to excellent.

 

[CousCuse]

`

Yeah, that Fresno State team is really good to excellent.

View attachment 237216

They had injury's earlier in the season. If you watch them play, you will see how much talent their roster has and how good they are. Every time I watch MWC games, I'm shocked at the level of talent and coaching they have. I go away thinking that Syracuse could use a lot of their guys.

 

[jncuse]

In full disclosure I have not done a really deep dive into all inter- conference records. But I believe have dug enough enough to come up with a valid question. How in the wide wide world of sports is the Mountain West Conference ranked ahead of the ACC, Pac 12 and Big East? Utah St and New Mexico are the top 2 teams and between them have played exactly one game against teams from the rest of the top 7 conferences (Utah St beat St Louis). The next best team is Boise St. They are 1-4 against the other top conferences. I understand some of the weaknesses of the RPI but it should have most of the inter-conference games analyzed at this point. What am I missing?

In terms of Conference NET, the MWC is ranked #7. You are looking at the Conference RPI which they are #4. (where the gap is not that big between #3-#6). Unfortunately under NET, Conferences don't have a "score" like the RPI, so its hard to see how close the delta's are to others.

In terms of big conferences I don't think the MWC did as bad as you think.
What about Colorado St who was 4-0 against the P6 -- all on neutral courts including Creighton? Or Nevada who is 3-0 against the P6

In terms of what are you missing -- I have a busy day today and expand on it later. Its not even particularly sinister -- but is a way they can get a lot of Q2 victories, and some Q1 OOC. Because they tend to do very well in those games.

Utah St's OOC schedule
At #59 Bradley
Neutral vs #87 Akron
Neutral vs #145 SFA (who is normally very good mid major and better than this)
UC Irvine #73
At #100 Santa Clara
Neutral vs #58 San Francisco

I have to run, but promise will address it later.

 

[jncuse]

You basically schedule cupcakes in the non-conf to boost your NET ranking then all the conference games theoretically become Quad 1 and 2.

What's interesting is that a lot of people are now commenting on this and i could see committee knocking Big 12/MWC on this.

That's not the case with the MWC - they don't get where they are at by beating the sisters of the poor.

I don't think it's quite easy as you represent for the Big 12, but I'm not saying there is not a fair bit of merit either. Remember the NET is heavily margin based. If you beat cupcakes you generally won't be rewarded unless you pound them more than others do. Margin systems are generally schedule independent (or try to be).

Ironically the Big12, would get destroyed by their scheduling under the old RPI even if they are winning these sub 250 games. We can see that based on Conference NET vs Conference RPI this year.

And their great OOC last year came via winning more top games than anybody else (a fair bit more) - not like this year. So something is happening - the answer isn't just Q4 padding, but its some of it. Will look at it further later

 

[NineOneSeven]

The Mountain West is the best conference in college basketball. They have the best coaches with great talent and play a great style of ball. Air Force is an outlier in that league who should probably play in the WAC or WCC, but the other 10 teams are all real good to excellant.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[CousCuse]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Have you watched any MWC hoops? Honestly. There are so many high level players in that league, NBA prospects.

 

[orange79]

`

They had injury's earlier in the season. If you watch them play, you will see how much talent their roster has and how good they are. Every time I watch MWC games, I'm shocked at the level of talent and coaching they have. I go away thinking that Syracuse could use a lot of their guys.

Have you watched any MWC hoops? Honestly. There are so many high level players in that league, NBA prospects.

Last 10. Try harder.

 

[CousCuse]

Last 10. Try harder.

View attachment 237233

Fresno is one of the bottom 3 teams in the league but I'll tell you, you would be impressed with their roster if you watched them play. The 6 teams they lost to are some real good teams. Boise, Utah, San Diego and Nevada are likely NCAAT teams. Boise is my dark horse (ha-ha) to win it all.

 

[cuseincincy]

Have you watched any MWC hoops? Honestly. There are so many high level players in that league, NBA prospects.

Hit me up next time you're watching a game. Looks like fun!

 

[CousCuse]

Hit me up next time you're watching a game. Looks like fun!

View attachment 237234

You don't watch any MWC games but you have hard opinions the league. Okay.

 

[two3zone]

You don't watch any MWC games but you have hard opinions the league. Okay.

When I lived in Vegas I became a UNLV fan and I still follow the program and the league. While I think the league gets disrespected, what you’re doing is overrating it 20xs more than people underrate it.

 

[CousCuse]

When I lived in Vegas I became a UNLV fan and I still follow the program and the league. While I think the league gets disrespected, what you’re doing is overrating it 20xs more than people overrate it.

Most analysts have 4 teams in and 5 is a very good possibility. 6 isn't out of the question either. UNLV is one of the mid to lower teams in the the league and they are dangerous. Krueger Jr is one of the coaches I'm talking about, he's real good. CSU has fallen to 3-4 in the league and has great talent, they beat Colorado. That guy for USU, Great Osobor, he could win player of the year. Nevada has Steve Alford coaching them and they have 3 or 4 guys who would start anywhere. Boise and San Diego are complete teams and could make deep runs in the tourney.

 

[NorSyr66]

You basically schedule cupcakes in the non-conf to boost your NET ranking then all the conference games theoretically become Quad 1 and 2.

What's interesting is that a lot of people are now commenting on this and i could see committee knocking Big 12/MWC on this.

Not understanding very much about all this NET stuff but as you point out is exactly the way I see it. Few years back we were spanked for SOS. Now we have a much stronger SOS and we are getting nicked for closer games and tougher OOC schedule.

 

[two3zone]

Not understanding very much about all this NET stuff but as you point out is exactly the way I see it. Few years back we were spanked for SOS. Now we have a much stronger SOS and we are getting nicked for closer games and tougher OOC schedule.

I think what’s been hurting the most is being on the wrong side of a boatrace.

 

[jncuse]

Not understanding very much about all this NET stuff but as you point out is exactly the way I see it. Few years back we were spanked for SOS. Now we have a much stronger SOS and we are getting nicked for closer games and tougher OOC schedule.

I don't remember the last time we were burnt by SOS. Maybe the 2007 and 2008 teams? It certainly wasn't anything recent -- in 2020, 2022, and 2023 we were very clear misses.

Certainly wasn't the reason we just missed in 2017, when we were 18-14. What was memorable from that year was losing to St. John's (H), Georgetown (H) and UConn (N).. and all 3 of those teams were sub .500. That was back when the board used the lame "Other Teams Super Bowl" excuse. In fact we were 3-10 that year against teams that were once co-conference mates in the Big East.

 

[Niastri]

Most analysts have 4 teams in and 5 is a very good possibility. 6 isn't out of the question either. UNLV is one of the mid to lower teams in the the league and they are dangerous. Krueger Jr is one of the coaches I'm talking about, he's real good. CSU has fallen to 3-4 in the league and has great talent, they beat Colorado. That guy for USU, Great Osobor, he could win player of the year. Nevada has Steve Alford coaching them and they have 3 or 4 guys who would start anywhere. Boise and San Diego are complete teams and could make deep runs in the tourney.

Never thought we'd have to listen to an MWC enthusiast of all things.

 

[CousCuse]

Never thought we'd have to listen to an MWC enthusiast of all things.

If you love college basketball, it's the best league to watch.

 

[orange79]

If you love college basketball, it's the best league to watch.

IMO, any league with Syracuse in it is the best league to watch.

But that's just me.

 

[SU94]

This ^^^ post is worth the time of anybody that follows CBB, SU, Bracketology, etc.

The Big 12 hired a slickster as a commissioner (Brett Yormark), and I don't really like him, but he is doing the job on both the football and hoops side. He's got a cult-ish persona to him. Almost like he'd be a pastor of a megachurch located (perhaps not coincidentally) in the plains.

How a conference in ~15 years can lose Texas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Missouri, Colorado (back soon!) and still have enough juice/bravado to out-maneuver/eliminate the Pac 12, it absolutely befuddles me? And none of the remaining teams have any decent level of academic standing, outside of Kansas, which is a solid, but decidedly middle-of-the road state academic institution.

Maybe the lack of academic-related scruples is the key.

Hey, I hate to say it, but you have to give them/Yormark credit.

The ACC/Phillips is going to have its hands full trying the fend off this shyster. This won't be a clean fight either. I don't think Yormark fights fair, if you know what I mean.