Congressional action is coming towards collegiate athletics

[Scooch]

Carleton University in Ottawa is a private university that actually has more students than SU. They were "The Powerhouse" in men's basketball in Canada up until the last season orvtwo. In some years they possibly would be good enough to win a few rounds in March Madness. They play in a gym similar to most high schools in CNY.

They average in the hundreds. There is your difference.

In addition to what TexanMark said, universities in other parts of the world don't have the competition levels we do partly because of the extensive club system for sports in their countries. I would hazard a guess that soccer at Oxford is barely above the intramural level here because anyone with any soccer ability approaching what we have at our collegiate level is either playing for a low division pro/semi-pro club or in the academy system of one of the EPL teams.

So, if I'm interpreting you both correctly, the difference is that everywhere else in the world, people treat universities as academic institutions, and leave high-level athletics to developmental leagues. Seems logical to me.

I love college sports, I truly do. But I think at this point the only way to truly reform the worst aspects of it is to blow it up entirely. If not, people need to be comfortable in their hypocrisy.

 

[Chip]

This got me thinking... is there any other nation on earth that has such an extensive, revenue-driven, athletic system in their universities?

I love college sports, but I’d be lying if I said that there weren’t times when I wonder how it makes absolutely any sense whatsoever.

You would think there would be something for soccer in many countries, or hockey in Canada.

I think it's a great thing that we have here. It's why we're addicted to this board in the first place. College football has provided me so much entertainment over the years. Other college sports too, but football has always been my go to.

Like I said the other day, anything that's this good eventually swallows itself. More of a crossroads though. It's so popular that it brings in loads of money. Hard to stop something like that. But certainly needs some fixing to keep it equitable.

I think they'll figure it out. Assuming we survive this panpocolypse.

 

[Bayside44]

You would think there would be something for soccer in many countries, or hockey in Canada.

I think it's a great thing that we have here. It's why we're addicted to this board in the first place. College football has provided me so much entertainment over the years. Other college sports too, but football has always been my go to.

Like I said the other day, anything that's this good eventually swallows itself. More of a crossroads though. It's so popular that it brings in loads of money. Hard to stop something like that. But certainly needs some fixing to keep it equitable.

I think they'll figure it out. Assuming we survive this panpocolypse.

In the old days in those countries college truly was for the select few. But that's why the massive sports clubs have kids in their development programs from an early age.

 

[Scooch]

You would think there would be something for soccer in many countries, or hockey in Canada.

I think it's a great thing that we have here. It's why we're addicted to this board in the first place. College football has provided me so much entertainment over the years. Other college sports too, but football has always been my go to.

Like I said the other day, anything that's this good eventually swallows itself. More of a crossroads though. It's so popular that it brings in loads of money. Hard to stop something like that. But certainly needs some fixing to keep it equitable.

I think they'll figure it out. Assuming we survive this panpocolypse.

Unfortunately, I suspect "figuring it out" means that we ultimately end up with a couple dozen schools who run football as professional franchises, while another 3-4 dozen pretend to compete while losing gobs of money, and the rest give up. America in the 21st century means the big get bigger, and the rich get richer.

 

[Scooch]

In the old days in those countries college truly was for the select few. But that's why the massive sports clubs have kids in their development programs from an early age.

That was the college model in the old days in this country too. But we decided to let Ohio State become an NFL minor league franchise. We're weird.

 

[Hoo's That]

So, if I'm interpreting you both correctly, the difference is that everywhere else in the world, people treat universities as academic institutions, and leave high-level athletics to developmental leagues. Seems logical to me.

I love college sports, I truly do. But I think at this point the only way to truly reform the worst aspects of it is to blow it up entirely. If not, people need to be comfortable in their hypocrisy.

You're 100% right. The problem is that the NFL and NBA do not have viable minor league/feeder systems, so they take advantage of the free system provided by college sports. Soccer is trying to get one going stronger using the Academy Model and get away from using colleges as its feeder system. Look at baseball. College baseball is a component, but not the primary component, of developing their players. A big advantage to both is that their CBA is set up so that you're drafted at 18, but if you do choose to go to college, you stay there until you turn 21 (the 3 years). IMO an end goal could be not having roster of >100 or 85 full scholarships for football and having partial scholarships allowed for basketball. While a total shift to the D-3/Ivy model would be ideal, I don't think it would happen.
.
If the NBA can make the G League (or whatever they're calling it this week) viable, it will be a help to clean out some of the rot in college b-ball. If nearly all the 5-stars and a good portion of the 4-stars go to the G League, college basketball will still be good, people will still go, people will still care about the tournament, but it will be played by people who want to be in school.

 

[Bayside44]

That was the college model in the old days in this country too. But we decided to let Ohio State become an NFL minor league franchise. We're weird.

The Ohio State sports complex is something out of Man in the High Castle. Just massive beyond belief.

 

[gmoney44]

I'm confused. What enumerated power grants the US Congress any authority over college athletics?

(I think I know what the professed reason will be, curious what folks think, though.)

Congress Constantly pokes there nose where it doesn’t belong instead of focusing on the issues it should. That is one of many reasons why they are useless.

 

[Chip]

That was the college model in the old days in this country too. But we decided to let Ohio State become an NFL minor league franchise. We're weird.

College football was always feeding the NFL, just like college basketball was always feeding the NBA. Those two sports were always more interesting to fans than college baseball and college hockey.

There's a lot of places that it's become kinda gross, especially the facilities stuff. Would you rather have your own pod with a 55 inch TV, jacuzzi and a masseuse named Sergio for 4 years, or should we just pay you. That's where it started veering WAY off course.

Hard to make the money flow stop when there's such demand to watch. TV ratings, six figure attendance at games with premium ticket prices. Maybe we'll all get different hobbies during the pandemic when it's not available, and people won't come back in droves. Who knows. Maybe they'll just pay the players in a way that works out. Or maybe they'll give all the extra money to cancer research. One can hope.

 

[kcsu]

its already free agency for college kids. Let’s deal with reality.

IF Congress allows kids to get paid at least Louisville wont have to foot the strippers tab anymore.

 

[TexanMark]

You're 100% right. The problem is that the NFL and NBA do not have viable minor league/feeder systems, so they take advantage of the free system provided by college sports. Soccer is trying to get one going stronger using the Academy Model and get away from using colleges as its feeder system. Look at baseball. College baseball is a component, but not the primary component, of developing their players. A big advantage to both is that their CBA is set up so that you're drafted at 18, but if you do choose to go to college, you stay there until you turn 21 (the 3 years). IMO an end goal could be not having roster of >100 or 85 full scholarships for football and having partial scholarships allowed for basketball. While a total shift to the D-3/Ivy model would be ideal, I don't think it would happen.
.
If the NBA can make the G League (or whatever they're calling it this week) viable, it will be a help to clean out some of the rot in college b-ball. If nearly all the 5-stars and a good portion of the 4-stars go to the G League, college basketball will still be good, people will still go, people will still care about the tournament, but it will be played by people who want to be in school.

Minor League Baseball is in transition. IIRC about 40% of the teams are going away.

Small cities like Binghamton and Batavia are getting the "rug pulled out from under themselves".

 

[Hoo's That]

Minor League Baseball is in transition. IIRC about 40% of the teams are going away.

Small cities like Binghamton and Batavia are getting the "rug pulled out from under themselves".

MLB wants a bigger slice of the minor leagues' pie as well. It's a terrible shame it's come to that.

 

[Rocco]

This is an ungood idea.

 

[Scooch]

MLB wants a bigger slice of the minor leagues' pie as well. It's a terrible shame it's come to that.

Yeah, the MiLB reduction plan is 100% greed by MLB. Like I said earlier, rich getting richer.

 

[CarolinaCuse]

Intercollegiate athletics started as students from one college playing students from another college. Students did it because it enriched their time at college. College football started as early as the 1820s... which preceded professional football by 100 years. The origins of intercollegiate athletics are pure, and have actually been reinforced by most higher education systems around the world. It's the US's collegiate system that has been warped over time to cater to the needs of the professionalism of sport, despite the fact that the majority of intercollegiate athletes will never sniff professionalism.

Don't lose sight of the forest from the trees... intercollegiate athletics are good in intention and student-athletes benefit in many many ways which can be viewed in a lens beyond professionalism.

 

[Bayside44]

MLB wants a bigger slice of the minor leagues' pie as well. It's a terrible shame it's come to that.

Most minor league play is pretty bad. An overwhelming majority of the guys are churn there to float the few that will make it. I get the small town romance of the thing but it might be a math issue.

 

[Newhouser]

Most minor league play is pretty bad. An overwhelming majority of the guys are churn there to float the few that will make it. I get the small town romance of the thing but it might be a math issue.

I agree. If the MLB teams can make money off it the MILB system will survive. If not the system needs to change. MLB owes the MILB cities nothing.

 

[TheCusian]

Congress Constantly pokes there nose where it doesn’t belong instead of focusing on the issues it should. That is one of many reasons why they are useless.

In a functioning democracy, this kind of imbalance between “worker” (student athletes) and management (colleges) wouldn’t have been allowed to grow into a weird hybrid system that benefits one side so unequally.

Government exists in part to regulate crap that becomes so weird and toxic and unfair that they are the only ones available to breath some sense into it.

(The real trick of the last 40 years is to convince the people that the “we the people” is somehow someone else, ineffective, and onerous. The venn diagram that includes people who are the powerbrokers in CFB and folks who think government should get drowned in a bathtub is probably a circle)

 

[TheCusian]

Intercollegiate athletics started as students from one college playing students from another college. Students did it because it enriched their time at college. College football started as early as the 1820s... which preceded professional football by 100 years. The origins of intercollegiate athletics are pure, and have actually been reinforced by most higher education systems around the world. It's the US's collegiate system that has been warped over time to cater to the needs of the professionalism of sport, despite the fact that the majority of intercollegiate athletes will never sniff professionalism.

Don't lose sight of the forest from the trees... intercollegiate athletics are good in intention and student-athletes benefit in many many ways which can be viewed in a lens beyond professionalism.

This is true. But the fact is the tv contracts have a value that is distorting things in ways that is killing the amateur model. To protect the sport, you can cut the money (won’t happen) or make the distribution of the money more fair. That would mean bending the definition of amateurism, but it could go on. I think the current model is untenable.

(Also, in reforming itself, stronger rules and enforcement should be paired with the changes so cheating - esp in recruiting - is curtailed. Otherwise, the sport dies from being seen as unfair and ultimately without value, IMO)

 

[dollarbill44]

And it should...a lot more important issues to resolve IMHO

Oh yeah? Name one.

Btw, my first thought when I saw this story was, really??? Congress has time to get involved in college sports right now?

 

[TexanMark]

I agree. If the MLB teams can make money off it the MILB system will survive. If not the system needs to change. MLB owes the MILB cities nothing.

I basically agree however, expect some lawsuits. Cities have poured millions into stadiums via outright layouts or sweetheart tax deals.

 

[donniesyracuse]

I agree. If the MLB teams can make money off it the MILB system will survive. If not the system needs to change. MLB owes the MILB cities nothing.

I agree, although I guess what is immeasurable is how much having baseball in Auburn and Batavia introduces people to the game and how much goodwill is generated.

Now that there is pressure for MLB to play minor leaguers a living wage, I’m sure they will only see the bottom line and let these teams go.

 

[SWC75]

What percentage of power conference football and basketball players are in school to get a meaningful degree?

What percentage are there because they want t get to the NFL and the NBA and adults have laid out college as the road to those goals?

What does the price of tuition, (as set by the school for other students) mean to the first group and what does it mean to the second group?

 

[SWC75]

I agree, although I guess what is immeasurable is how much having baseball in Auburn and Batavia introduces people to the game and how much goodwill is generated.

Now that there is pressure for MLB to play minor leaguers a living wage, I’m sure they will only see the bottom line and let these teams go.

If MLB kills most of the minor leagues, (for a second time- the first time was in the 1960's), will a viable trend toward independent minor leagues begin? They could keep their own players for full season of a length they determine with a playoff system they prefer and employ veteran players trying to resort their careers or just keep playing the game they love.

 

[Modern Coac]

If MLB kills most of the minor leagues, (for a second time- the first time was in the 1960's), will a viable trend toward independent minor leagues begin? They could keep their own players for full season of a length they determine with a playoff system they prefer and employ veteran players trying to resort their careers or just keep playing the game they love.

I have my doubts about Congressional action. Especially in college where players are only there a few years. I suspect the P5 breaks away from NCAA and sets up own rules.

The Congress initially raised issues about the minor leagues in MLB. But that got dropped fast. MLB got the reduction it wanted.

A lot of this "congressional action" is more a couple of politicians trying to score some political points. But that is it. There is really no political groundswell. It is just a couple of quotes picked up by the media. Nothing more. MLB got the changes it wanted. That is bottom line