Cooney and Back court

[We Are Syracuse]

Cooney obviously had his fair share of crappy games this past year especially once conference play started... A lot of this had to do with him being the only main, focal shooter and everyone constantly chasing him around as he ran everywhere during some possessions. Shooters are better when they have other perimeter threats around him and the development of BJ and maybe Buss developing as a backup PG would be great. Truly think he will build off this year and development into a consistent 15-20 points per game threat. He has the athleticism and ball handling to get to the hoop, hopefully this off season he will have a ton of reps of driving and finishing so he can gain confidence in the games because he needs more dimensions...

This next year will be awesome to see how everyone develops. I am excited for next years roster... Completely different team, front court should be very solid, and the back court will develop and be ready to produce... GO CUSE

 

[Jasoncuse]

Cooney struggled because he had to run a marathon every game.

If Ennis had been more of a drive and kick out passer, or we had gone inside/out with one of our forwards, Cooney could have gotten more good looks where he wasn't forced to run off numerous screens.

 

[Millhouse]

Cooney struggled because he had to run a marathon every game.

If Ennis had been more of a drive and kick out passer, or we had gone inside/out with one of our forwards, Cooney could have gotten more good looks where he wasn't forced to run off numerous screens.

cooney improving his ball handling is probably the best thing he can do to improve his shooting

 

[anomander]

cooney improving his ball handling is probably the best thing he can do to improve his shooting

i think the best thing he can do to improve his shooting is too visit a sports psychologist. i'm dead serious, it could be the best decision he ever made.

 

[BludOrange]

Would also help if he learned not to avoid contact from a defender that is chasing him at full speed when he goes up for a shot or passes up a shot. He could loosen up his defenders by taking advantage of their aggresiveness and let them foul him.

 

[orangefan13]

Cooney needs

A -to be able to pull up under alittle pressure once in awhile,
or
B -start knocking down a leaning 3 off the dribble, once in awhile.
Those are qualitie(s) gmac, rautins, and dnic had once in awhile, and the reason they were great (1st/2nd options) not just good(3rd 4th options 65-85% of the time).




He still shows alot of youth, there is so much he can touch up on, low dribble off the the release, shooting under pressure, jerking his shot when a defender gets near at times, rushing when he gets excited about a wide open shot, rushing when he finally gets a look, looking to get a short jumper first off a headfake (would have helped against dayton)... ect... Guys who have alot to touch up on often can lack as seniors. He could use the study time, gametape, and some mental mantra to execute flawlessly even on misses. Guys like dnic, rautins, gmac, and devendorf mentally toned on perfection as they grew.

 

[AZOrange]

i think the best thing he can do to improve his shooting is too visit a sports psychologist. i'm dead serious, it could be the best decision he ever made.

not sure about practice but he should practice more defensed shots. He flinches just a bit with defenders.

 

[rrlbees]

i think the best thing he can do to improve his shooting is too visit a sports psychologist. i'm dead serious, it could be the best decision he ever made.

Totally wrong. Best thing that could happen to him is too have a more balanced shooting team and players that dribble with their head up and drive and kick sometimes.

Btw, the team does have a team psychologist. They have for years. Sits in the section right behind the bench.

 

[anomander]

Totally wrong. Best thing that could happen to him is too have a more balanced shooting team and players that dribble with their head up and drive and kick sometimes.

Btw, the team does have a team psychologist. They have for years. Sits in the section right behind the bench.

How does having a more balanced shooting team make him knock down open 3's? He had plenty of good looks throughout the year, but if he misses his 1st shot he is almost guaranteed to have an off game. The kid has shown he has the ability to knock down 3's on a consistent basis. imo it's almost all mental., it shows in his body language and his shot. Good shooters like him don't throw that many airballs unless they are extremely tight.

 

[newmexicuse]

A couple of thoughts:

1. Everybody talks about Cooney having good athleticism. He doesn't have good basketball athleticism. He shows very limited ability to drive and finish to the hoop or to create separation to for a pullup J. He just shows a flash here or there - nothing consistent.

2. He literally runs himself into the ground every game trying to create space to get off a rushed trey attempt. It is no wonder to me that he had no legs by the end of the season. He needs to be more of a spot up three point shooter even if it means he only gets off a couple of attempts per game. It is patently obvious that trying to force the issue of getting off more treys after he has run himself ragged does not work. I would much rather he went 2 for 5 than 3 for 10 from distance.

Bottom line for me - he has one great skill, which is only great when properly utilized. He simply has mediocre athleticism and nothing will change that. Either we find a way to let the game come to him or he will remain a mediocre player.

 

[RF2044]

A couple of thoughts:

1. Everybody talks about Cooney having good athleticism. He doesn't have good basketball athleticism. He shows very limited ability to drive and finish to the hoop or to create separation to for a pullup J. He just shows a flash here or there - nothing consistent.

2. He literally runs himself into the ground every game trying to create space to get off a rushed trey attempt. It is no wonder to me that he had no legs by the end of the season. He needs to be more of a spot up three point shooter even if it means he only gets off a couple of attempts per game. It is patently obvious that trying to force the issue of getting off more treys after he has run himself ragged does not work. I would much rather he went 2 for 5 than 3 for 10 from distance.

Bottom line for me - he has one great skill, which is only great when properly utilized. He simply has mediocre athleticism and nothing will change that. Either we find a way to let the game come to him or he will remain a mediocre player.

Your take on his athleticism is 100% wrong. Not even remotely accurate.

I agree with your point #2.

 

[rrlbees]

How does having a more balanced shooting team make him knock down open 3's? He had plenty of good looks throughout the year, but if he misses his 1st shot he is almost guaranteed to have an off game. The kid has shown he has the ability to knock down 3's on a consistent basis. imo it's almost all mental., it shows in his body language and his shot. Good shooters like him don't throw that many airballs unless they are extremely tight.

The number of "open looks" and air balls are greatly exaggerated. Outside of the last second flurry where we took 5 rushed chucks at the basket and he had 2 air balls, 1 while calling backwards in the deep corner, I remember exactly 1 air ball.

As to open shots? He rarely got shots that I would consider open. 90% of his 3 point shots came from running around and coming around a curl. Should he make more? Yep. But that's not the same as the number of 3 point shots I see players from other teams get every night. I've asked this question a few times in other threads and never get a reply. But why do most of his shots come from running circles then coming hard around a screen and very few if any come like others where he is set facing the basket, catches the ball and is able to step into the shot? Why do players on other teams get so many of those every game and we get so few? I'm sure, like me, you know the answer.

As to his good games, he's missed the first one if not second many times, including ND. So it has nothing to do with him missing the first one and then needing to see a shrink.

I'm sure you noticed that teams that played zone and m2m would often start in m2m and when Cooney came out go to zone.

Other shooters would cause the defenses not to be able to focus on him. Once teams figured out he was the only deep threat they made sure they took that away and dared anyone else to shoot. The team needs more shooters and more kick outs.

 

[rrlbees]

2. He literally runs himself into the ground every game trying to create space to get off a rushed trey attempt. It is no wonder to me that he had no legs by the end of the season. He needs to be more of a spot up three point shooter even if it means he only gets off a couple of attempts per game. It is patently obvious that trying to force the issue of getting off more treys after he has run himself ragged does not work. I would much rather he went 2 for 5 than 3 for 10 from distance. Bottom line for me - he has one great skill, which is only great when properly utilized. He simply has mediocre athleticism and nothing will change that. Either we find a way to let the game come to him or he will remain a mediocre player.

WE need to be able to do both. The getting better coming around screens is on him. The getting spot up shots are on the team and it's make up.

Btw, did Andy reman a "mediocre" player after his soph season. Cooney is ahead of where Andy was at the same time and many wanted Andy out. Then he was a hero. Funny how that works.

 

[MikeSU02]

The number of "open looks" and air balls are greatly exaggerated. Outside of the last second flurry where we took 5 rushed chucks at the basket and he had 2 air balls, 1 while calling backwards in the deep corner, I remember exactly 1 air ball.

As to open shots? He rarely got shots that I would consider open. 90% of his 3 point shots came from running around and coming around a curl. Should he make more? Yep. But that's not the same as the number of 3 point shots I see players from other teams get every night. I've asked this question a few times in other threads and never get a reply. But why do most of his shots come from running circles then coming hard around a screen and very few if any come like others where he is set facing the basket, catches the ball and is able to step into the shot? Why do players on other teams get so many of those every game and we get so few? I'm sure, like me, you know the answer.

As to his good games, he's missed the first one if not second many times, including ND. So it has nothing to do with him missing the first one and then needing to see a shrink.

I'm sure you noticed that teams that played zone and m2m would often start in m2m and when Cooney came out go to zone.

Other shooters would cause the defenses not to be able to focus on him. Once teams figured out he was the only deep threat they made sure they took that away and dared anyone else to shoot. The team needs more shooters and more kick outs.

I've been critical of TC, but I think it's fair to say that we didn't have 1) a lot of post play and 2) when we did have post play or guys penetrating, there weren't a lot of correct kick outs to guys around the arc, including TC.

Part of that is spacing, part of that is offensive design, part of that is knowing where to float to on the arc. A big part is having guys that attack the lane and the rim or bigs on the post being solid passers.

I think running TC around like he were Ray Allen was always going to burn him out. Ray Allen can do that. TC cannot - at least not consistently.

One other item, I think TC would get a lot of open looks as the spot up guy or trailer on the break if we pushed tempo more.

Lot of room for improvement for all parties involved.

 

[newmexicuse]

Your take on his athleticism is 100% wrong. Not even remotely accurate.

I agree with your point #2.

I said he doesn't have good basketball athleticism. He may well be very athletic in a sense that he can run fast or jump high, but if he cannot apply those skills to the court then they don't count for much.

To me an athletic guard should be able to do the following things:

1. Get some rebounds including some put back points, especially in traffic. Trevor comes as close to absolutely never doing this as is humanly possible.

2. Initiate a drive & get to the hoop in the half court game.

3. If he is an athletic shooter he should be able to create his own shot off the dribble including a stop & pop.

4. Initiate a north-south drive to create an open look for a teammate.

5. Be able to run out an beat opponents down the court in rebound or turnover situations.

Which of those things does Trevor do ??? In my mind he is 0 for 5 in that regard in terms of doing any of those things consistently. Yeah, he throws out the occasional tantelizer, but that is all - kinda like X.

 

[rrlbees]

I said he doesn't have good basketball athleticism. He may well be very athletic in a sense that he can run fast or jump high, but if he cannot apply those skills to the court then they don't count for much. To me an athletic guard should be able to do the following things: 1. Get some rebounds including some put back points, especially in traffic. Trevor comes as close to absolutely never doing this as is humanly possible. 2. Initiate a drive & get to the hoop in the half court game. 3. If he is an athletic shooter he should be able to create his own shot off the dribble including a stop & pop. 4. Initiate a north-south drive to create an open look for a teammate. 5. Be able to run out an beat opponents down the court in rebound or turnover situations. Which of those things does Trevor do ??? In my mind he is 0 for 5 in that regard in terms of doing any of those things consistently. Yeah, he throws out the occasional tantelizer, but that is all - kinda like X.

1. In his role he's not going to get many offensive rebounds at the 3 PT line.

2. He's shown he can do this at times but needs to do it more. Since he has shown he is capable of doing it, it's not an athletic issue .

3. See # 2. He showed a stop and pop on occasion, especially along the baseline. Has to do it more.

4. Won't really disagree but nobody on the team did that. Wasn't his role.

5. Don't know if he can do that since we weren't a running team. Look what Ennis and the rebounder do 95% of the time. We did see what he can do when he gets a steal himself.

 

[kcsu]

Totally wrong. Best thing that could happen to him is too have a more balanced shooting team and players that dribble with their head up and drive and kick sometimes.

Btw, the team does have a team psychologist. They have for years. Sits in the section right behind the bench.

He doesnt need practice as much as he needs games. He is by all accounts a great practice shooter but it doesnt translate into real games. This kid needs to play and play some more. The very best thing for him would to be placed on a summer team at the point. Make him handle the ball make him become more than just a shooter

 

[newmexicuse]

1. In his role he's not going to get many offensive rebounds at the 3 PT line. Lot's of three point shooters sense when they miss short & are able to follow up their own shots for rebounds & putbacks. I do not recall ever seeing Trevor do that. Not to mention that boards can be crashed when others shoot. Gotta have a nose for the ball at times & then be able to just go & get it.

2. He's shown he can do this at times but needs to do it more. Since he has shown he is capable of doing it, it's not an athletic issue . That is where we disagree - any player on a court can do anything on an infrequent enough basis. Centers sometimes hit treys - short guards sometimes get a block. Legitimate athletes are able to use their talents to create an edge that can be used to their advantage consistently.

3. See # 2. He showed a stop and pop on occasion, especially along the baseline. Has to do it more. - Same as above - this skill should really be a linchpin of his game to make his man back off a step or so to open up better trey attempts for him. Basic problem for Trevor IMHO is that while he has a quick release - he does not have quick feet, another hallmark of athleticism.

4. Won't really disagree but nobody on the team did that. Wasn't his role. That should be everybody's role when the opportunity presents itself. Maybe that is on the Coach if nobody on the team does that.

5. Don't know if he can do that since we weren't a running team. Look what Ennis and the rebounder do 95% of the time. We did see what he can do when he gets a steal himself.

- Agree we weren't especially good at running, but there were plenty of times that Tyler was able to pass ahead if there was somebody open & running the court.

 

[RF2044]

I said he doesn't have good basketball athleticism. He may well be very athletic in a sense that he can run fast or jump high, but if he cannot apply those skills to the court then they don't count for much.

To me an athletic guard should be able to do the following things:

1. Get some rebounds including some put back points, especially in traffic. Trevor comes as close to absolutely never doing this as is humanly possible.

2. Initiate a drive & get to the hoop in the half court game.

3. If he is an athletic shooter he should be able to create his own shot off the dribble including a stop & pop.

4. Initiate a north-south drive to create an open look for a teammate.

5. Be able to run out an beat opponents down the court in rebound or turnover situations.

Which of those things does Trevor do ??? In my mind he is 0 for 5 in that regard in terms of doing any of those things consistently. Yeah, he throws out the occasional tantelizer, but that is all - kinda like X.

You talked about athleticism, and then mention a bunch of things related to skills and style of play.

Discussing Trevor's ostensible "lack" of athleticism has become a talking point for some on this board. But repeating something that is false doesn't make it true.

 

[rrlbees]

- Agree we weren't especially good at running, but there were plenty of times that Tyler was able to pass ahead if there was somebody open & running the court.

Don't agree with much in your individual responses. 3 point shooters do not often follow their shots and get their own rebound. Short jumpers yes, a 3 point shot no. And Ennis didn't often look up trying to break and nobody was tuning the court. When we got the defensive rebound, we held the ball and waited for Ennis to come back and get it . That is not a fast break.

And if someone shows an ability to do something, they can certainly do it more but it's not an indication that they can't do it, just that they need to do it more.

He's not an uber athlete but he's a good athlete. Some things are skills he needs to work on and not a matter of being athletic. Fair is a darn good athlete. But he had a bad handle. Real bad. But that doesn't mean he's not athletic. It's a skill not athleticism.

 

[Halfmooncuse]

Totally wrong. Best thing that could happen to him is too have a more balanced shooting team and players that dribble with their head up and drive and kick sometimes.

Btw, the team does have a team psychologist. They have for years. Sits in the section right behind the bench.

Some posters could use this person. Include me.

 

[We Are Syracuse]

Your take on his athleticism is 100% wrong. Not even remotely accurate.

I agree with your point #2.

Yea he isn't good at finishing because he has zero confidence in himself to do so because he must not put in the amount of time he should at that aspect of his game... I'm sure he will this spring and summer.. He has the athleticism, not the confidence... You really think Eric devendorf was more athletic than trevor? Hell no.. He has WAY more confidence tho

 

[im4cuse]

It's said that a third marriage is the triumph of hope over experience. I hope he has a great, all ACC year next year, because it will be good for the only team I care about. At the risk of offending, I note he'll be 22 by the time the season starts and we do have a good sample size of heavy minutes all season, including 8-30 (26%) over the last 6-7 games, when we really, really needed help. This is our "shooting guard". Objectively (apart from how much we might admire his work ethic), it is surprising there's no clear, obvious "plan B" for next year. Every year this time post NCAA, we note how important guard play is, and how it overcomes other shortcomings. If this were as obvious a need for Duke, UK, Kansas (or UCon) do you think it would go unaddressed? Maybe JB really is afraid of someone's mother?

 

[rrlbees]

No, JB isn't afraid of anyone's mother. He realizes the importance of Cooney to the team and that he will continue to improve his game.

 

[OttoMets]

I said he doesn't have good basketball athleticism. He may well be very athletic in a sense that he can run fast or jump high, but if he cannot apply those skills to the court then they don't count for much.
...

I think there's something to that.

At this stage of his development, he's not terribly quick. This hurts his ability to drive (if closely guarded) and I think it also affects his ability to get off a good shot on the move.

Further, Cooney's got great lift but it has yet to translate into success converting at the rim; many of his drives in the halfcourt resulted in blocked layups.

He'll improve. But I get what you mean.