Cooney = Deshaun Williams in conference play as a 3 point shooter

[Millhouse]

I'm going to disagree with one point you make here. Just because he hasn't performed to some peoples expectations so far in his career, does not mean he won't in the future. He could have 45 games left in Orange. At this point in Andy Rautins career,late conference season 2009, he was very similar to Cooney. He was really not a playmaker until his senior year and he was shooting 35 percent or so from three.

Rautins had yet to have his big 6 overtime game, and solid finish to the the end of his junior season that lead to his big Senior Season. I don't know why, but some people think guys don't improve late in their careers. You would think after watching Rak this year people would learn. I still think Cooney will get better before he finally graduates, especially since everyone says he works as hard as he does.

rautins conference 3 pt shooting
33%
41%
39%
37%

overall he shot 39% from 3 before his senior year in conference

 

[Cusefan0307]

rautins conference 3 pt shooting
33%
41%
39%
37%

overall he shot 39% from 3 before his senior year in conference

C'mon. Anyone with a set of eyes knows Andy wasn't anything more than a glorified walkon his freshman year. In reality there is not enough data the first two years. And I'm not getting caught up in conference numbers. Especially now, with unbalanced scheduling. Maybe when we played 11 cupcakes a year 5 or 6 years ago, but we don't anymore. Thats basically saying it's easier to play against Villanova or Michigan than playing against Virginia Tech or Boston College.

 

[Millhouse]

C'mon. Anyone with a set of eyes knows Andy wasn't anything more than a glorified walkon his freshman year. In reality there is not enough data the first two years. And I'm not getting caught up in conference numbers. Especially now, with unbalanced scheduling. Maybe when we played 11 cupcakes a year 5 or 6 years ago, but we don't anymore. Thats basically saying it's easier to play against Villanova or Michigan than playing against Virginia Tech or Boston College.

he shot 96 3s in conference play as a sophomore

 

[Millhouse]

C'mon. Anyone with a set of eyes knows Andy wasn't anything more than a glorified walkon his freshman year. In reality there is not enough data the first two years. And I'm not getting caught up in conference numbers. Especially now, with unbalanced scheduling. Maybe when we played 11 cupcakes a year 5 or 6 years ago, but we don't anymore. Thats basically saying it's easier to play against Villanova or Michigan than playing against Virginia Tech or Boston College.

conference numbers are the best way to compare guys who played different schedules

 

[moqui]

he criticizes me for picking williams as a comparison even though their conf shooting % are 2 tenths of a percent different and chides me for not picking a guy who shot a better

and he accuses me of being deceptive by not pointing out that williams's performance went down over time even though the guy he thinks I should've used had numbers that WAIT FOR IT went down over time

triche had far fewer 3 attempts in more conference games. so at least he had some self awareness about how much he should shoot given his percentages.

these stats are for his soph to sr year, don't have the freshman numbers handy - couldn't have been too many shots http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/brandon-triche-1.html

I'm accusing you of being deceptive because you are not simply critiquing Cooney but rather you are purposely trying to tie him to an unpopular guy. The deception is pretending to do a simple statistical analysis when really what you are engaged in is character assassination.

you can easily critique Cooney's game statistically and otherwise without saying he is equivalent to a noted chemistry-killing team cancer, but the latter is what you are interested in, not the former.

 

[Millhouse]

I'm accusing you of being deceptive because you are not simply critiquing Cooney but rather you are purposely trying to tie him to an unpopular guy. The deception is pretending to do a simple statistical analysis when really what you are engaged in is character assassination.

you can easily critique Cooney's game statistically and otherwise without saying he is equivalent to a noted chemistry-killing team cancer, but the latter is what you are interested in, not the former.

i said his 3 point conference shooting is the same as williams. i didn't say they were equivalent in every way

i think you're being deceptive - i don't think you're actually this pompous

you are a bad mind reader and you're hysterical in a non-funny way

 

[MikeSU02]

I'm going to disagree with one point you make here. Just because he hasn't performed to some peoples expectations so far in his career, does not mean he won't in the future. He could have 45 games left in Orange. At this point in Andy Rautins career,late conference season 2009, he was very similar to Cooney. He was really not a playmaker until his senior year and he was shooting 35 percent or so from three.

Rautins had yet to have his big 6 overtime game, and solid finish to the the end of his junior season that lead to his big Senior Season. I don't know why, but some people think guys don't improve late in their careers. You would think after watching Rak this year people would learn. I still think Cooney will get better before he finally graduates, especially since everyone says he works as hard as he does.

Hey, I hope so. I just am not banking on it. I keep seeing the same thing from TC. Not only that, it sure seems like our PG position may still be a work in progress next year and we lose Rak. That means there will be added pressure on the veterans to perform without two key positions being "known" entities going into the season.

You are absolutely right he can still improve. IMO, best case scenario, Malachi can relieve TC of playing almost 40 mins a game. I think 32MPG TC >>> 40MPG TC.

Whatever my issues with TC are, I think he can become a much more efficient player getting 4 mins a half blow.

 

[orangefan13]

Bashing Cooney is now the cool thing to do now, or so it appears recently, I just can't imagine where this team would be without him.

Edited for clarity

We would have had another 3-5 losses in nov-jan without him no doubt.


SG has been our weakness since rautins left outside a good year by dion. That is 4 out 5 years where we haven't had a SG as our leader. Cooney has caught the tail end of these 5 years, which makes it tougher.

Cooney has also been forced to be a top three scorer on the team the last 2 years. As a freshmen he wasn't ready to score sadly. Thats a tough position to be in especially for a spot up shooter.

Hes also played next to 2 freshmen pg's the last two years. Where as someone like Triche had a sensational sophmore in mcw and a jr/senior scoop at point. Yet Triche never got half the bashing that Cooney has, and Triche had just as many things that had to go right for him to score.

Cooney has became a better shooter off the dribble this year no doubt from 3 point land as well He is getting better every year. The guy works his @ss off, its not his fault hes at a school like syracuse where you have to have a athletic advantage to score lots of the time, in a league where defenders are draped all over you. Heck the coaches recruited him, knowing that could be the case.

When gbinije Joseph, and/or roberson,cmac,malachia,Dajuan step up making cooney a 4th 5th option some sets next year are we still going to bash?

 

[Upstate]

I'm accusing you of being deceptive because you are not simply critiquing Cooney but rather you are purposely trying to tie him to an unpopular guy. The deception is pretending to do a simple statistical analysis when really what you are engaged in is character assassination.

you can easily critique Cooney's game statistically and otherwise without saying he is equivalent to a noted chemistry-killing team cancer, but the latter is what you are interested in, not the former.

Cooney = Shafer in Millhouse's eyes.

 

[Millhouse]

Cooney = Shafer in Millhouse's eyes.

another really smart mind reader here, i see

 

[Tony DeFranco]

Boeheim really should have pulled him after that fast break - head down - passing an after though - and as usual he can't finish because he lacks athleticism - really hope Malachi can ball and Cooney comes off the bench - we need him and he can an important role but it's not as a starter​

 

[orangefan13]

Boeheim really should have pulled him after that fast break - head down - passing an after though - and as usual he can't finish because he lacks athleticism - really hope Malachi can ball and Cooney comes off the bench - we need him and he can an important role but it's not as a starter​

Respectfully, No way that happens but it is possible Malachi gets 10 minutes at SG.

 

[SBU72]

a lot of that is his own doing. other posters compare him to mcnamara but i really do think mcnamara actually was forced into taking so many bad shots because the rest of those later teams was so out to lunch

if cooney were a great shooter, he'd be better from the line. hard to explain gbinije though in that regard

So you made 2 contradictory comments. You don't think Cooney taking so many shots aren't as "forced into taking as GMac. I think they are. If he stops taking them then the defense has clearance to back off. And you dis prove his "poor" 3 point shooting ability because his ft shooting is "only" 79% while the good 3 pt shoot G shoots only 50%

 

[Millhouse]

So you made 2 contradictory comments. You don't think Cooney taking so many shots aren't as "forced into taking as GMac. I think they are. If he stops taking them then the defense has clearance to back off. And you dis prove his "poor" 3 point shooting ability because his ft shooting is "only" 79% while the good 3 pt shoot G shoots only 50%

you act like i didn't already mention gbinije's free throw shooting. i think gbinije had the yips or something.

i can't believe you made your post about cooney being forced into taking bad shots tonight. those shots were very early in the shot clock. i'm not being contradictory just because disagree with you. maybe you're just wrong

 

[Millhouse]

sub 30% three point shooter in conference while taking 9 three pointers per 40 minutes

i wonder how many guys manage to do that

 

[Louie&Bouie]

This is pretty amazing

Cooney conference 3 point stats
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/trevor-cooney-1.html
Career
86-284
30.3%
in 47 conf games

Williams conference 3 point stats at SU
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/pl...1=points_avg&chart2=minutes_avg&chart3=fg_pct
Career
76 - 249
30.5%
in 48 conf games

What were their winning percentages in comparison to one another?

 

[Millhouse]

What were their winning percentages in comparison to one another?

i don't think that's a good way to judge players. Christmas isn't as good as celuck this year by that measure

 

[OttoinGrotto]

sub 30% three point shooter in conference while taking 9 three pointers per 40 minutes

i wonder how many guys manage to do that

In the moneyball era of hoops? We may never see it again.

 

[Louie&Bouie]

i don't think that's a good way to judge players. Christmas isn't as good as celuck this year by that measure

It is when you compare careers. Which is what you're doing when comparing their FG %.

 

[Millhouse]

It is when you compare careers. Which is what you're doing when comparing their FG %.

nah. players can have very different players around them for one to four years

 

[Louie&Bouie]

nah. players can have very different players around them for one to four years

And players can either make the others around them better, or worse. Players can also influence the direction a team takes.

 

[Louie&Bouie]

Well, tonight should put this pointless argument to rest. Thank you, TC, for playing like a LEADER.

 

[Millhouse]

Well, tonight should put this pointless argument to rest. Thank you, TC, for playing like a LEADER.

That's not how numbers work

he's down to .290 in conference play 3p% for his career fwiw. i wasn't going to say anything but since lowie&bowie mentioned it. i'm very happy he contributed so great in other ways last night