Cooney

[stuckinbig11]

That would be my guess too. My point was more that if Cooney is the real deal and truly ready to contribute meaningfully, I don't think Triche's minutes are set in stone (unlike MCW and CJ). Perhaps we disagree there, but if Cooney's truly a lights out shooter in game action (obviously remains to be seen), I think he could eat into triche's minutes. I don't think it's a lock, but it is a possibility.

Cooney will not eat Triche minutes; he might eat MCW minutes, however, with Triche at PG.

 

[General20]

Are you thinking for necessity reasons or because he will just be that good now that its his team?

Triche (and MCW) will, in my opinion, play well over 30 mpg out of necessity this year.

Think about this, if a team wants to zone us, or just plan give us room to shoot, guys like Southerland and Cooney (not to mention Triche and MCW who will be good shooters too) will eat them alive.

The best way to play this year's SU team (unlike last year) is going to be to pressure us. We dont have a lot of ball handling. Both Triche and MCW are going to be needed to attack the pressure, therefore they will play big minutes and be given big responsibility this year.

Cooney (like most good young shooters) is going to be a guy that has a big game here or there when conditions are right, but is also invisible and on the bench a big percentage of the time.

 

[billsin01]

Triche (and MCW) will, in my opinion, play well over 30 mpg out of necessity this year.

Think about this, if a team wants to zone us, or just plan give us room to shoot, guys like Southerland and Cooney (not to mention Triche and MCW who will be good shooters too) will eat them alive.

The best way to play this year's SU team (unlike last year) is going to be to pressure us. We dont have a lot of ball handling. Both Triche and MCW are going to be needed to attack the pressure, therefore they will play big minutes and be given big responsibility this year.

Cooney (like most good young shooters) is going to be a guy that has a big game here or there when conditions are right, but is also invisible and on the bench a big percentage of the time.

I tend to agree. I could easily see triche averaging over 30, perhaps well over 30. I just think, if that's the case, it'll be more b/c Cooney isn't quite ready for an expanded role rather than Triche being too valuable to take off the floor.

 

[billsin01]

Cooney will not eat Triche minutes; he might eat MCW minutes, however, with Triche at PG.

I would take that bet -- I guess we'll have to wait and see but I don't see MCW coming off the floor much once the games start to matter.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

That could very well be the case and I wouldn't be shocked. I just think Andy was a really good all-around player even early in his career, which many don't seem to agree with.

IMO Andy was the best basketball player on SU his last 2 years, at least.

 

[Rocco]

IMO Andy was the best basketball player on SU his last 2 years, at least.

Andy was fantastic defensively. He had quick hands and was long enough to erupt passing lanes. If Cooney is that good defensively in a year or two, we are in for a treat. Andy was also incredible moving around away from the ball trying to get open on the perimeter. Great conditioning is key, which Cooney may be able to bring to the table like Andy did.

 

[Orangezoo]

Triche (and MCW) will, in my opinion, play well over 30 mpg out of necessity this year.

Think about this, if a team wants to zone us, or just plan give us room to shoot, guys like Southerland and Cooney (not to mention Triche and MCW who will be good shooters too) will eat them alive.

The best way to play this year's SU team (unlike last year) is going to be to pressure us. We dont have a lot of ball handling. Both Triche and MCW are going to be needed to attack the pressure, therefore they will play big minutes and be given big responsibility this year.

Cooney (like most good young shooters) is going to be a guy that has a big game here or there when conditions are right, but is also invisible and on the bench a big percentage of the time.

good points from all around- its great to be getting back to talking hoops- as for triche i just hope he can be consistant. I would rather cooney be gravy than a must have off the bench because we arent getting consistancy at the guard spots.

has there been word of how mcw looks in scrimmages?

 

[RF2044]

Triche (and MCW) will, in my opinion, play well over 30 mpg out of necessity this year.

Think about this, if a team wants to zone us, or just plan give us room to shoot, guys like Southerland and Cooney (not to mention Triche and MCW who will be good shooters too) will eat them alive.

The best way to play this year's SU team (unlike last year) is going to be to pressure us. We dont have a lot of ball handling. Both Triche and MCW are going to be needed to attack the pressure, therefore they will play big minutes and be given big responsibility this year.

Cooney (like most good young shooters) is going to be a guy that has a big game here or there when conditions are right, but is also invisible and on the bench a big percentage of the time.

Correction: we don't have PROVEN ball handling. That doesn't mean that MCW, Cooney, et al aren't capable--just that their ability to handle pressure is an unknown commodity at this point.

 

[billsin01]

What is a role like Fair? Triche will lead the team in mpg and ppg.

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Disagree on both those. Obviously there's no right answer right now, but I see MCW in minutes and Fair in points.

 

[billsin01]

Andy was fantastic defensively. He had quick hands and was long enough to erupt passing lanes. If Cooney is that good defensively in a year or two, we are in for a treat. Andy was also incredible moving around away from the ball trying to get open on the perimeter. Great conditioning is key, which Cooney may be able to bring to the table like Andy did.

And Rautins was a great passer even if he took a few liberties from time to time. Got us out and into transition constantly. And on the athleticism front, he was underrated there as well. When you get drafted, it's a pretty good indication that you have some serious athletic attributes even if you aren't hammering the ball from the foul line all the time.

 

[armory]

the double high screen is back baby

 

[General20]

Correction: we don't have PROVEN ball handling. That doesn't mean that MCW, Cooney, et al aren't capable--just that their ability to handle pressure is an unknown commodity at this point.

Actually, unlike some others, I have no doubts about MCW's ability to handle the ball. I just think we will want both he and Triche on the court together when being pressured because those two are going to be handling the ball 99.9% of the time for us.

 

[sutomcat]

Triche will be north of 30mpg. Probably well north in the BE games.

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I agree with Bees here. Seniors get a lot of playing time. If you don't see it coming, you haven't been paying attention the last 35 years or so.

Going into Orange Madness, I think barring injuries that Cooney is going to get in the neighborhood of 18 or 20 minutes per game. I expect to see JB pull him a lot, explain to him what he did wrong on offense and especially on defense, where he is going to have the most problems. If that seems low, consider that it is a lot more than Andy got when he was a frosh, or MCW for that matter.

Cooney spent a ton of time last season working on shooting off the dribble, often with GMac helping him out. That is something Gerry and Andy did not have coming into their frosh seasons...they only started doing it in games late in their careers.

To me, this is great to see. I am not saying Trevor is going to be a better shooter than GMac and Andy were but from a technical perspective, he is ahead of where they were in some ways at this point. A shooter who can make shots off the dribble is, to me, a far more valuable asset to a team. It gives a player a lot more opportunities to get their shots off, and forces defenders to be more cautious trying to defend them.

Another thing about Cooney is he is already much stronger than GMac or Andy ever were. I think he is going to be able to take advantage when man defenders get in his face, by blowing by them and attacking the rim. His physical strength/leaping ability/athletic ability in general is underrated. He has the potential to score a lot of points for Syracuse during his career. Thar being said, he was really bothered in scrimmages last season when players would body up on him or give him little shoves when he had the ball. Big East basketball is very physical and I think even with the extra year to adjust and get stronger, he will have some trouble on this front.

 

[billsin01]

I agree with Bees here. Seniors get a lot of playing time. If you don't see it coming, you haven't been paying attention the last 35 years or so.

Going into Orange Madness, I think barring injuries that Cooney is going to get in the neighborhood of 18 or 20 minutes per game.

I have, if this is in my direction for suggesting that there is at least a scenario in which Triche doesn't average 35 mpg, been paying attention for the past 35 years (well, not that long, but late 80s, however long that has been). I get that seniors play in JB's system.

That said, it seems to me you're arguing two different things. The notion that Cooney is going to get, even on the low end of your estimate, 18 mpg would almost demand that Triche be more or less topping out at 30-31 min in most games and occasionally dipping down into the high 20s.

Anyway, I tend to agree that Triche will be seeing a ton of minutes in BE play. I just think that if Cooney truly is a guy capable of seeing 18-20 mpg on average (again I don't think he is quite there yet) it's my contenention that the bulk of those minutes come from Triche's total since, IMO, MCW will be the better PG and more dangerous player overall.

 

[sutomcat]

I have, if this is in my direction for suggesting that there is at least a scenario in which Triche doesn't average 35 mpg, been paying attention for the past 35 years (well, not that long, but late 80s, however long that has been). I get that seniors play in JB's system.

That said, it seems to me you're arguing two different things. The notion that Cooney is going to get, even on the low end of your estimate, 18 mpg would almost demand that Triche be more or less topping out at 30-31 min in most games and occasionally dipping down into the high 20s.

Anyway, I tend to agree that Triche will be seeing a ton of minutes in BE play. I just think that if Cooney truly is a guy capable of seeing 18-20 mpg on average (again I don't think he is quite there yet) it's my contenention that the bulk of those minutes come from Triche's total since, IMO, MCW will be the better PG and more dangerous player overall.

Just to be clear, I never said Triche was going to play 35 mpg. I think he is going to play somewhere in the 30 to 32 mpg range. As Bees said, he will play more minutes in BE play. I think MCW will play similar minutes, perhaps a bit little less.

Triche is the only guard who can play both positions, which gives him some advantage with PT. He also won't get in foul trouble and won't need to be taken out to get reemed for playing bad defense as much either. That being said, MCW is a special player and will play a lot of minutes, again more in BE play than in OOC play. Trevor's PT will wane somewhat in conference play. Especially against teams that play man.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I agree with Bees here. Seniors get a lot of playing time. If you don't see it coming, you haven't been paying attention the last 35 years or so.

.

Blanket statements like this oversimplify things. JB does things different now than he did 30 years ago. Scoop averaged just 25 mpg for example.

BTs time will be affected by how good JB thinks Cooney is, and by game situations. If Cooney gets his pocket picked, it will be like that Giants running back who fumbled, Whitehot will find a lot of bench time.

Just to be clear though, I too, think BT will average over 30 per. I don't think JB will trust Cooney enough. I think Cooney will be the winner of the '12-'13 MCW award where everyone here will be clamoring for more time from him. So, yeah, change is slow.

 

[billsin01]

Just to be clear, I never said Triche was going to play 35 mpg. I think he is going to play somewhere in the 30 to 32 mpg range. As Bees said, he will play more minutes in BE play. I think MCW will play similar minutes, perhaps a bit little less.

Triche is the only guard who can play both positions, which gives him some advantage with PT. He also won't get in foul trouble and won't need to be taken out to get reemed for playing bad defense as much either. That being said, MCW is a special player and will play a lot of minutes, again more in BE play than in OOC play. Trevor's PT will wane somewhat in conference play. Especially against teams that play man.

Yeah, I agree with all of that except I wouldn't be surprised to see MCW at ~36 mpg in conference games. We've obviously seen that before. If I had to guess I'd say Triche is there as well, but I leave a little wiggle room for the potential that Cooney truly is ready to play a meaningful role at this level. But if I had to guess I'd say he ends the season in the 13-15 mpg range and sees a good chunk of those minutes in the early season.

 

[br801]

I think Cooney will be the winner of the '12-'13 MCW award where everyone here will be clamoring for more time from him.

That's an absolute lock. Cooney will play 20-30 minutes against some of the cupcakes and probably have some big scoring nights. When we get into tight games, JB will have a short leash and/or ride Triche and MCW for 36+ minutes each and some people here will go insane, especially when we lose a few games. Should be fun.

 

[Rocco]

That's an absolute lock. Cooney will play 20-30 minutes against some of the cupcakes and probably have some big scoring nights. When we get into tight games, JB will have a short leash and/or ride Triche and MCW for 36+ minutes each and some people here will go insane, especially when we lose a few games. Should be fun.

I don't think MCW will get crazy minutes like Triche will. MCW has very little playing experience. I think he will spread the minutes out more between MCW and Cooney (Triche slides to the 1 when MCW out). Boeheim will need all 3 guards during tight games as we have no depth behind them.

I'm going with this (80 guard minutes available each game):

Triche 34-36
MCW 29-31
Cooney 13-17

Either way, these guards need to be extremely conditioned, which I'm not overly concerned with.

 

[IthacaMatt]

That would be my guess too. My point was more that if Cooney is the real deal and truly ready to contribute meaningfully, I don't think Triche's minutes are set in stone (unlike MCW and CJ). Perhaps we disagree there, but if Cooney's truly a lights out shooter in game action (obviously remains to be seen), I think he could eat into triche's minutes. I don't think it's a lock, but it is a possibility.

Yes, I'd rather see 30 Triche, 30 MCW and 20 Cooney this year, not 35 - 35- 10. Otherwise they'll wear down, and we need Cooney's shooting. Brandon is OK if he's open, but not that dependable.

 

[billsin01]

I don't think MCW will get crazy minutes like Triche will. MCW has very little playing experience. I think he will spread the minutes out more between MCW and Cooney (Triche slides to the 1 when MCW out). Boeheim will need all 3 guards during tight games as we have no depth behind them.

I'm going with this (80 guard minutes available each game):

Triche 34-36
MCW 29-31
Cooney 13-17

Either way, these guards need to be extremely conditioned, which I'm not overly concerned with.

Certainly a plausible scenario. My quibble would be with the notion that MCW doesn't have much playing experience. I mean, this is a game where young kids can make huge impacts and JB himself has said that freshmen are freshmen in name only by the end of the year. So while MCW isn't a hardened vet, I doubt his inexperience will land him on the bench very often.

 

[OrangeTown]

Thar being said, he was really bothered in scrimmages last season when players would body up on him or give him little shoves when he had the ball. Big East basketball is very physical and I think even with the extra year to adjust and get stronger, he will have some trouble on this front.

Uh, Tom... National Talk Like a Pirate Day was last month.

 

[JoeSU]

IMO Andy was the best basketball player on SU his last 2 years, at least.

I will always remember Rautins for having a great basketball IQ, and displaying a penchant for hitting clutch shots. He also garnered a lot of rebounds from the guard spot. His shooting was a bit of an enigma however, as his FT shooting was very average.

 

[sutomcat]

Uh, Tom... National Talk Like a Pirate Day was last month.

Har! Good one laddie! Where's me cannon?

 

[cuseinseattle]

Alot depends on how ready Dajuan, Cooney and Grant are.
Getting back to my minutes scenerio. Consider this minutes scenerio.

Triche 31 mpg
MCW 31 mpg
Fair 31 mpg
Southerland 27 mpg.
That would be 120 minutes right there.
Your team only gets 200. That leaves 80 minutes.
Rak 25
Dajaun 20
Keita 15
Cooney 20

Grant can maybe take 4-12 minutes of those away if he shows some offense, defense, and rebounding to help balence. And I could see any of those second 4 maybe deserving more to help balence as well.

I completely agree with this.