Could I get a list of the misdeeds that the recruiting

[TheCusian]

I agree with what you’re saying. All I’m saying is, it’s pretty weak to say our players are better than their players and then lose to them when we play them. I was at that game, it was like getting surgery on your spleen. The fact is, we might lose to them again if we played them this season. I know you might think that’s wrong, but it’d be a distinct possibility. Even the thought of that makes me want to barf.

The second point is, if our players are really all that better than they’re rated, we’d be winning more. Period. Sure, there are other factors, but, in the end, good players win. Not so good players lose. We lose a lot. Our players aren’t undervalued all that much or we’d have a lot more positive results.

So, again, I agree, perceptions shouldn’t color rankings, but Orange glasses shouldn’t color actual results, which have been pretty poor.

I do see a difference in this year’s class, which is a lot of fun to be witnessing.

Lucky for us there are actual results to check. We finished better than them that season and last season. We’re better than them, head to head once two years ago be damned. They should be way better given their “recruiting advantage”

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I know someone who runs a 247 site. I asked him some of the questions this group poses. Here are his responses:

1) Ratings are extremely subjective, especially after the sure fire guys, who are evaluated in a variety of ways.
2) Ratings based on NFL potential, not college potential. There are very specific measurables and growth charts that these are based on. Syracuse, as we know, tends to take guys who don't fit that growth chart but in some cases have worked out - but those aren't as easily predicted.
3) Evaluations are done regionally, so the de-committed QB committing may have been evaluated faster because it ended up on someone's desk.
4) Evaluations by different individuals are prioritized depending on what schools they cover. If a guy from let's say Pennsylvania commits to Florida, the evaluation of someone who covers Florida will be prioritized over someone who covers the NE. That's why you tend to see variance, particularly for Syracuse, who doesn't have a dedicated evaluator.

 

[orangefog]

I know someone who runs a 247 site. I asked him some of the questions this group poses. Here are his responses:

1) Ratings are extremely subjective, especially after the sure fire guys, who are evaluated in a variety of ways.
2) Ratings based on NFL potential, not college potential. There are very specific measurables and growth charts that these are based on. Syracuse, as we know, tends to take guys who don't fit that growth chart but in some cases have worked out - but those aren't as easily predicted.
3) Evaluations are done regionally, so the de-committed QB committing may have been evaluated faster because it ended up on someone's desk.
4) Evaluations by different individuals are prioritized depending on what schools they cover. If a guy from let's say Pennsylvania commits to Florida, the evaluation of someone who covers Florida will be prioritized over someone who covers the NE. That's why you tend to see variance, particularly for Syracuse, who doesn't have a dedicated evaluator.

Number 3 is exactly the issue. If the person evaluating for a certain region is biased toward one school and/or biased against another, they can completely control these rankings. That is exactly what is happening. They have a system that is made for people like Dohn and Toad, they are not regulated at all.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Number 3 is exactly the issue. If the person evaluating for a certain region is biased toward one school and/or biased against another, they can completely control these rankings. That is exactly what is happening. They have a system that is made for people like Dohn and Toad, they are not regulated at all.

See point 1.

 

[money3189]

I agree with what you’re saying. All I’m saying is, it’s pretty weak to say our players are better than their players and then lose to them when we play them. I was at that game, it was like getting surgery on your spleen. The fact is, we might lose to them again if we played them this season. I know you might think that’s wrong, but it’d be a distinct possibility. Even the thought of that makes me want to barf.

The second point is, if our players are really all that better than they’re rated, we’d be winning more. Period. Sure, there are other factors, but, in the end, good players win. Not so good players lose. We lose a lot. Our players aren’t undervalued all that much or we’d have a lot more positive results.

So, again, I agree, perceptions shouldn’t color rankings, but Orange glasses shouldn’t color actual results, which have been pretty poor.

I do see a difference in this year’s class, which is a lot of fun to be witnessing.

There's the other side of that. Rutgers have better classes then us but has been the worse P5 program the last 10 years.It hasnt translated on the field. People have tried to make this point before. We arent talking results on the field. Perception is a big part of recruiting. It entices other quality players to commit. Ive experienced it from both ends.

 

[money3189]

These sites, especially Rivals, are subscription based and you don't bite the hand that feeds you. There are by far more Rutgers fans there than SU.

There's a colony of rutgers fans on rivals and 247. Beggin, complaining and pleading for their commits to be ranked higher. lol

 

[SU91]

There's the other side of that. Rutgers have better classes then us but has been the worse P5 program the last 10 years.It hasnt translated on the field. People have tried to make this point before. We arent talking results on the field. Perception is a big part of recruiting. It entices other quality players to commit. Ive experienced it from both ends.

This I wholeheartedly agree with in terms of perception effecting recruiting and i wish it were not so.

It’s hard to make sense of what translates on the field because schedules are so different.

In the end, SU players are downgraded. Rutgers players are upgraded. But neither team has broken out. What does that tell us? Probably neither team is getting choice recruits. What I like about this class is seeing Pitt, WVU, BC, and Maryland offers. Win those battles are we start cooking with gas again.

 

[money3189]

The QB who just decommited from us was unranked for eight days.

He decommited and went to Northwestern, today, and magically is rated today as an 86 overall.

We went from 37th class to 43rd in a few hours today, even after adding three commits

Zurburgg was actually rated a 86 not too long after he committed to SU. 247 gave him a 85. On3 gave him a 87. Thats what made is composite a 86. I noticed it a few days ago.

 

[money3189]

This I wholeheartedly agree with in terms of perception effecting recruiting and i wish it were not so.

It’s hard to make sense of what translates on the field because schedules are so different.

In the end, SU players are downgraded. Rutgers players are upgraded. But neither team has broken out. What does that tell us? Probably neither team is getting choice recruits. What I like about this class is seeing Pitt, WVU, BC, and Maryland offers. Win those battles are we start cooking with gas again.

Good points.

 

[SU91]

Lucky for us there are actual results to check. We finished better than them that season and last season. We’re better than them, head to head once two years ago be damned. They should be way better given their “recruiting advantage”

I’m not so sure how much better we are than them. I’d like to think so, but I think it’s very debatable. Our dubious on field results are very hard to compare with Rutgers given schedules. I’ve seen you, yourself, make the point about varying schedules on this board, so I’ll just say that it’s not clear who the better team is. The only head to head we have is from two seasons ago and the beat us. Not much to argue about there. Again, as much as that pains me to say.

I do feel that, after eight years (wow), Dino seems to have us trending in the right direction. At this very moment, I feel better about Syracuse than Rutgers. I’d rather be us than them. Always and forever. Once again, only time will tell, but I can’t remember a more important season than this one.

 

[money3189]

I’m not so sure how much better we are than them. I’d like to think so, but I think it’s very debatable. Our dubious on field results are very hard to compare with Rutgers given schedules. I’ve seen you, yourself, make the point about varying schedules on this board, so I’ll just say that it’s not clear who the better team is. The only head to head we have is from two seasons ago and the beat us. Not much to argue about there. Again, as much as that pains me to say.

When Ash was the coach SU was clearly the better team. Greg has made them better defensively but their offenses have been horrific and thats not just against big10 opponents.

 

[baggerbob]

When Ash was the coach SU was clearly the better team. Greg has made them better defensively but their offenses have been horrific and thats not just against big10 opponents.

And if Dino had gone with Shrader rather the Tommy in that game we probably would have won.

 

[SU91]

When Ash was the coach SU was clearly the better team. Greg has made them better defensively but their offenses have been horrific and thats not just against big10 opponents.

Yeah, and don’t misunderstand. I don’t think they’re good.

We are a better program than them. That is without question. What we need to do now is put distance between the current iterations of the teams. Pull away and don’t look back. As it should be.

 

[TheCusian]

I’m not so sure how much better we are than them. I’d like to think so, but I think it’s very debatable. Our dubious on field results are very hard to compare with Rutgers given schedules. I’ve seen you, yourself, make the point about varying schedules on this board, so I’ll just say that it’s not clear who the better team is. The only head to head we have is from two seasons ago and the beat us. Not much to argue about there. Again, as much as that pains me to say.

I do feel that, after eight years (wow), Dino seems to have us trending in the right direction. At this very moment, I feel better about Syracuse than Rutgers. I’d rather be us than them. Always and forever. Once again, only time will tell, but I can’t remember a more important season than this one.

I hear you.

I haven't done the deep dive on stats to prove this outright (fair enough) but I think this is provable for anyone who wants to run with it; These are both true statements:

1. While not playing the same schedule, various statistical measures would show us as being the better team over the last 4-5 years.
2. They have consistently been ranked higher *in recruiting* than us over the last 4-5 years.

If those two things are correct, you could probably draw the conclusion that they are getting a recruiting number bump that we don't.

(The point I agree with you on 100% is that both teams are not all that good relative to their conference over the last 4-5 years and actual recruiting momentum would be a very good thing for us!)

 

[money3189]

Yeah, and don’t misunderstand. I don’t think they’re good.

We are a better program than them. That is without question. What we need to do now is put distance between the current iterations of the teams. Pull away and don’t look back. As it should be.

Agree. Hopefully we put together some consecutive winning seasons.

 

[721Comstock]

Agree. Hopefully we put together some consecutive winning seasons.

Gonna be a little more difficult without RB1.

 

[tep624]

It’s pretty simple. Offers shouldn’t affect how a recruit is graded if the basis for grading is what the sites portray - camp performances, season performances and measurables. If the ratings are affected by what schools offer then that process should be disclosed rather than some fantasy procedure for grading recruits that they claim is the basis.

 

[CuseMan4]

34th best class in the country now per the all day site. Only player not rated now is Robinson. Pretty good, pretty damn good

 

[Cuse181]

And if Dino had gone with Shrader rather the Tommy in that game we probably would have won.

Should’ve won anyway, verdal was awful and they couldn’t run. Don’t turn the ball over 3 times and have 2 additional fumbles and you run away with it.

 

[baggerbob]

Should’ve won anyway, verdal was awful and they couldn’t run. Don’t turn the ball over 3 times and have 2 additional fumbles and you run away with it.

But you don't have Shrader attempting a pitchout near our goal line that's fumbled.
That led to a Rutgers score.