Culture change or coaching change

[orangecuse]

Both need to be changed. 3 years is enough time to see that this program is going nowhere. Shafer's ceiling is 6-6, 7-5 in good years, IMO. Cut bait, move on until you get it right. This time do a legit search

I lean towards this sentiment primarily because SS was an inside hire, not outside...and, whom has now been embedded in the program for 7 years.

 

[xc84]

If Your Coyle which is more important? Can you have one without the other? From the infamous get a life comment by Shaw to games being scheduled in NYC to the putrid boring product put on the field let's face it Football is not appealing to the masses here. Expand that to say the Rochester or even Buffalo area where we are virtually non existent and seemingly good recruits go to Pitt or Penn state . I'm not going to get into the politics of the changing population based on immigrants who love football played with a round ball or the fiasco last year of the public money for a football stadium but if your everyday joe why do you want to go to a game? And if your a mid to upper level recruit why do you want to play football at a place half filled for home games in a dome .
This is what Coyle must face, his new committee is a good first step and may lead to some answers but there is a touch row to hoe.

Will winning ugly solve the attentendace issue? Will winning ugly improve recruiting? Or will it take a philosophy change the we must use the big tool that we have in the dome with the fast track and the rules of the game now to pass first and ask questions later because at least a loss could be entertaining ?

Coyle will have much to think about not just the record of the coach but does the current path of the program fit with projected changes in the dome to bring Fannie in the seats? Does the current coach fit that overall vision?

They don't need to solve an "attendance issue". They need to solve a winning issue.

 

[PhatOrange]

Ask Steve Patterson if fans don't know or care about an AD.

come on, that's 1 AD and it's Texas? There are no similarities.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I must say, if I am Coyle, I would clean house and get my own guy. This is the moment at which no one would be able to question the decision. If he waits and we go 6-6 next year, the picture gets muddled.

There may be little to be gained by waiting. The risk/reward is probably in favor of a change now.

That's how I see it.

 

[Full_Rebar]

"Fans" pushed Brandon out at Michigan, Haden will become another guy in a few weeks. It's naive to think that "fans" don't have influence on AD's and coaches in today's college sports world.

 

[Crusty]

"Fans" pushed Brandon out at Michigan, Haden will become another guy in a few weeks. It's naive to think that "fans" don't have influence on AD's and coaches in today's college sports world.

It happens every season.

 

[PhatOrange]

"Fans" pushed Brandon out at Michigan, Haden will become another guy in a few weeks. It's naive to think that "fans" don't have influence on AD's and coaches in today's college sports world.

Naive? Michigan, Texas, USC? lol.

How much clout did Syracuse fans have pushing out Gross? The couple of dozens fans who cared posted on this board years ago that he should be terminated. Their opinions were really influential.

 

[Franz69]

Much like Shafer, Coyle will punt. One more year.

 

[dan7800]

I think SU needs to look at Duke. Duke FB was HORRIBLE for many years and are obviously known more for their BB team.

Sound familiar?

 

[phil77]

I must say, if I am Coyle, I would clean house and get my own guy. This is the moment at which no one would be able to question the decision. If he waits and we go 6-6 next year, the picture gets muddled.

There may be little to be gained by waiting. The risk/reward is probably in favor of a change now.

This is my line of thinking. There is no better time for Coyle to make the change. If he gives Shafer another year and he goes 6-6 then What do you do? Do you extend him at that point even if he isn't the guy you want? Seems like the timing is perfect for Coyle to make a change now.

 

[retro44]

I think $6 million just coordinators and position coaches and a new s&c staff just might be a good start. Now that would show who is serious in the game of college football

 

[rrlbees]

the fans will turn on Coyle. Now that's funny.

Without a doubt.

 

[ThruWayWest]

How many fans care about an AD? how many fans know who the AD is? 98% of the fans don't know and don't care.

Without using google, I can't name another Athletics Director in the ACC.

 

[AlbOrange]

Much like Shafer, Coyle will punt. One more year.

But we are just 35 yards from the opponent's end zone why would we punt??
OH wait, you are right

 

[Crusty]

Naive? Michigan, Texas, USC? lol.

How much clout did Syracuse fans have pushing out Gross? The couple of dozens fans who cared posted on this board years ago that he should be terminated. Their opinions were really influential.

That is your opinion to which you are certainly entitled, but I think the facts lead us to a different view. Boosters, alums and season ticket holders are the clients for this product and if you are worth your salt as a businessman, you will pay attention or you won't be in charge long.

 

[PhatOrange]

Without a doubt.

without a doubt funny or they will?

I find it funny that a couple of dozen fans that might turn on Coyle will move the needle and the bigger donors who actually matter didn't pull the plug on Gross.

 

[PhatOrange]

That is your opinion to which you are certainly entitled, but I think the facts lead us to a different view. Boosters, alums and season ticket holders are the clients for this product and if you are worth your salt as a businessman, you will pay attention or you won't be in charge long.

At Syracuse? Sure. As long as the Athletic Department stays out of trouble, graduates kids and is in the black, Coyle won’t be going anywhere.

 

[Orangello]

The easiest thing to do is let him complete his 4 year deal then cut ties. I would still force him to make a number of staff changes in any event to get year 4. The probability that he get's more than 7 wins next year is slim to none IMHO. In essence, Coyle decides now to ease him out after next year come what may. I think the majority of the fan base has already concluded that HCSS is not the long term answer.

 

[Crusty]

At Syracuse? Sure. As long as the Athletic Department stays out of trouble, graduates kids and is in the black, Coyle won’t be going anywhere.

Right. SU is going to have the largest sports facility construction in its history and you think that is the only standard. It is always about money and going forward there will be more pressure than ever to win and put fannies in the seats - and not get our butts kicked out of the ACC.

 

[rrlbees]

without a doubt funny or they will? I find it funny that a couple of dozen fans that might turn on Coyle will move the needle and the bigger donors who actually matter didn't pull the plug on Gross.

I never said they'd have any clout, though they might. But I've seen a zillion posts saying how people trust Coyle, as do I. Without a doubt, many of those same people will turn on him and question his smarts if Shafer is given next year.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Shafer in close games:

 

[JrodCuse]

Right. SU is going to have the largest sports facility construction in its history and you think that is the only standard. It is always about money and going forward there will be more pressure than ever to win and put fannies in the seats - and not get our butts kicked out of the ACC.

Get kicked out of the ACC? Huh? This isn't European Soccer. That isn't even a possibility. We could go 3-9 in football for eternity and we wouldn't get kicked out of the ACC.

 

[Crusty]

Get kicked out of the ACC? Huh? This isn't European Soccer. That isn't even a possibility. We could go 3-9 in football for eternity and we wouldn't get kicked out of the ACC.

Hyperbole.

 

[MSOrange]

Hyperbole.

I was wondering about that because I generally enjoy your posts and that possibility seems quite far fetched and didn't make much sense to me.

 

[TheCusian]

I personally fail to see why we would wait to end of season to fire him if we're looking for green shoots against terrible teams. I think if we get throttled by Clemson and show zero improvement why not rip the bandaid off (assuming Coyle is going to fire him minus 6 wins). Aren't we going to be in a situation where we are running around trying to fill a position w everyone else. I'd like to see Lester run the program too and see if another decisionmaker can beat teams we should beat. I don't want to hear about the recruits either. They are going to jump ship either way if this looks like a sinking ship if SS comes back or not (an extension not given will be pretty obvious)

Well up until Sat the offensive and defensive performance vs Pitt was encouraging, the 3OT loss vs UVa where they had to have 4 things go right to win, etc gave me a sliver of hope we'd break out offensively. That staff demoted Whigham which seemed like it could pay dividends. We were creating fumbles just not jumping on them, etc. Very good QB play. Good young skill position guys. Contrary to popular board opinion after a loss - the feeling that we are close is not that far off. It still might not be.

So while I'm getting to a spot where I think his in game coaching and lack of jump in o production is bad enough to move on - if we play well in the teaming games and win 2 out of 4 - I could see Coyle waiting.