Curious as to why so many posters keep referencing last years team | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Curious as to why so many posters keep referencing last years team

br801

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Because some people are optimists and see the good that is still out there in this team. Saturday is the first game all year we weren't in the game.
It sure as hell looked like they were in it for the first 30 minutes, without getting anything from Grant, and with Ennis, BMK and Christmas playing with foul trouble. But I suppose that makes me an optimist.
 

Scotch

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It doesn't "have anything to do with this years team and its struggles down the stretch" in a literal sense. Its a comparison made to show that a team that isn't playing well can turn it around and accomplish great things, when many seem to be expressing that this year's team is finished as a function of recent poor play.

It took one year to forget that lesson.

Generally agree, but calling it a "lesson" is a bit strong. Sure, teams "can" turn it around, but last year's finish was a statistical outlier. A good fan can use it as a reason for hope while also being realistic about the fact that this team isn't playing great basketball right now.
 

jncuse

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I don't compare them to last year because the 3 pieces are different this year from last year. I am just saying college basketball as a whole is down and we have enough talent to win a NC. I am hating(not from you by any means) that overt drama that has become infested on this board picking apart our flaws. I have been complaining for weeks/months about the tempo/urgency this team plays with, but at the end of the day we are nitpicking at 26-3 team. I would rather be Syracuse than Iowa who I said yesterday is the opposite of us. They score and are fun to watch, but can't play defense. Our offense isn't that bad its that JB/Syracuse have been playing such a slow game it reduces possessions and our margin for error is less as a result. Our adjusted offense is 21st in the nation. Our points per possession is ranked in the top 5% of the nation, but this season is a lost cause to play faster. We can be concerned but it doesn't change the fact we are NC contender.

We were at least #4 in SOS adjusted offensive efficiency at some point in January (and after Duke Feb 1 game IIRC).

#23 (per KP) would not be so bad on the surface, but to go from #4 to #23 in that short amount of time, means our offence the last month has probably been closer to #100.

IMO you need to look at both, and not ignore the other - focusing on the fact we are #23 ignores some of our real issues of late. Then again focusing completely on the past month ignores the fact that the same components were effective for a good part of this season... and teams like Wisconsin, UNC, Duke, Virginia have bounced back from not so stellar periods on their schedule, so why can't Syracuse

Reasons to be concerned about our offence... but enough out there to have faith it may turn around.
 

RF2044

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Generally agree, but calling it a "lesson" is a bit strong. Sure, teams "can" turn it around, but last year's finish was a statistical outlier. A good fan can use it as a reason for hope while also being realistic about the fact that this team isn't playing great basketball right now.

Statistics don't factor into this discussion--I'm not using last year as a predictive model for what's going to happen this year.

It is a "lesson" in the sense that teams performing poorly CAN turn it around. And we've got the talent to turn it around, even though the team isn't playing great basketball right now, as you point out.
 

Pat Kelly

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I would disagree with that, not sure the two teams are that similar. Last years team didnt have anywhere near the winning streak this years team had or won as many big games ie Nova, Pitt, UNC, DUke. Last years team had a huge win at Lville but also two horrific games against Gtown, this years team outside of UVA has been in every game. Last years team also had much more experienced leadership in Triche and JS and even MCW who had been in the program for a year. The shooting potentials of each team are also night and day, theres no James Southerland on this years team.
Cooney is shooting for the same percentage as Southerland last year
 

JeremyCuse

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Cooney is shooting for the same percentage as Southerland last year

Id take Southerland over Cooney in a hearbeat I dont care what the statistics are.
 

tbonezone

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i like trevor. i do. but here's the thing. he's just not consistent . seems to blow either hot or cold.
he may indeed shoot a decent average % . but just suppose the sticker on your rental car says 30mpg.
one day you get 5mpg and the next 55mpg. it makes it rather difficult to plan any sort of trip.

(and yes dirty was streaky as well)
 

Pat Kelly

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Id take Southerland over Cooney in a hearbeat I dont care what the statistics are.
It's easy to say that when Cooney is struggling. Remember Southerland couldn't dribble. We need Cooney as a backup point anyhow.
 

JeremyCuse

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It's easy to say that when Cooney is struggling. Remember Southerland couldn't dribble. We need Cooney as a backup point anyhow.

I was saying from a strictly shooting standpoint I would take him in a hearbeat over Cooney. JS could go cold as well but he could also hit that mid range jumper which was money on and when he caught fire watch out.
 

raf4488

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Id take Southerland over Cooney in a hearbeat I dont care what the statistics are.

IMO, 2014 Cooney is clearly a more effective player than 2013 JS. Cooney is a better defender and is capable of putting the ball on the floor on occasion. JS was almost exclusively a catch and shoot player.
 

Alsacs

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Both the 2013 and 2014 Syracuse teams have been 1 guard short in the rotation for my liking. I don't like depending on just 3 guards in the regular season. I feel in the regular season its all about creating a resume and getting the best seed/location for March. In the NCAA Tournament play a small rotation and win games. Its okay to have a 7/8 man rotation in March, but I would like to have a deeper rotation in the regular season unless the 9-12 players are completely useless. I mean JB could have the 9-12 players be a press unit for 2-4 minutes in the first half and use them to change momentum and speed up games, but he knows more than me and has won 930 games so he isn't going to rock the boat.
 

swish7

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In nearly every post when someone is critical of the current team or of our potential in the tourney someone inevitably brings up last years loss to Gtown and the final four run and laughs off the OP. Maybe I am missing something ...

composition fallacy?
 

Dave85

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You make some good points. However, I do think a switch could be flipped IF we have a healthy Grant on the court.

JS was a really awesome defender in the 2-3 zone. Much better than Grant. Roberson is barely scratching the surface defensively.

Take a look at Florida Gators box scores. They have 2.3 star players shooting greater than 40% from 3-point. We have no outside shooting. I am little disappointed by the lack of depth and production from our bench. Oh well, it sure feels like a Monday.
 

swish7

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Because some people are optimists and see the good that is still out there in this team. Saturday is the first game all year we weren't in the game. We played without Grant, and if he gets healthy we should be in good shape. I think some people forget how bad it was at the end of last year. We had been blown out twice by Georgetown, and crumbled down the stretch against Louisville at home.

Last year Triche, MCW, and Southerland all were playing awful this time of year. None of them could make a shot. We have guys this year that are going through similar stretches. We know these guys can play better than they have been, but we have to play defense better than we did Saturday. Also a lot of people like me don't like to be doom and gloom. Looking at the negative isn't really going to do anything except make one more frustrated. There is precedent for this, so we are looking at the precedent.

Different year. Different players. Shoot, different league. It is not a precedent.
 

Cusefan0307

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JS was a really awesome defender in the 2-3 zone. Much better than Grant. Roberson is barely scratching the surface defensively.

Take a look at Florida Gators box scores. They have 2.3 star players shooting greater than 40% from 3-point. We have no outside shooting. I am little disappointed by the lack of depth and production from our bench. Oh well, it sure feels like a Monday.

There was a lot of complaining about Southerlands defense in the 2-3 at this time last year, the biggest part being he didn't rebound, and thats the one thing Grant does in the 2-3 better than Southerland
 

Cusefan0307

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Different year. Different players. Shoot, different league. It is not a precedent.


Last year gives fans reason for optimism. Just because you don't play well the last 2 weeks of the regular season, doesnt mean you won't play well in the tournament. The biggest issue for this team is getting Grant Healthy. Last year our shooting guard couldnt shoot and our point guard couldnt stop turning the ball over. The sky was falling last year worse than this year, and last year we had zero hope.
 

CusefanATL

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In nearly every post when someone is critical of the current team or of our potential in the tourney someone inevitably brings up last years loss to Gtown and the final four run and laughs off the OP. Maybe I am missing something but I fail to see how last years great run has anything to do with this years team and its struggles down the stretch. Unless MCW or more importantly Jame Southerland are going to be eligible for the tourney making comparisons to last years team is pretty pointless. We are unlikely to get that good a draw again and unfortunately I dont see Cooney getting anywhere near as hot as JS got in the BE tourney and the NCAA's. I have no way of knowing if this years team is going to get back on track offensively and make a deep run, I sure as hell hope they do and I think the pieces are there. But I think some here are setting themselves up for dissapointment if they think this team is going to suddenly flip a switch when the tourney starts.

Serious question... is James Southerland the most overrated player in Syracuse history?

I can't believe I have heard so many "we could really use James on this team"... what the hell were you watching? He was just as streaky as Cooney.

I HATED cooney prior to this year... but have grown to love him. He's going to be there when we need him. I have faith.
 

JeremyCuse

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Serious question... is James Southerland the most overrated player in Syracuse history?

I can't believe I have heard so many "we could really use James on this team"... what the hell were you watching? He was just as streaky as Cooney.

I HATED cooney prior to this year... but have grown to love him. He's going to be there when we need him. I have faith.

James was a really good player who should be a 5th year senior this year. He was a stretch forward who had some big games for Syracuse and basically willed us to the finals of the BE tourney last year. Nothing against Cooney but this team is desperate for another shooter id take them both on this team.
 

Briancuse

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Id take Southerland over Cooney in a hearbeat I dont care what the statistics are.

Southerland was a one trick pony, Cooney is starting to realize that he has the ability to take it to the basket. This is his first year as a starter, he is going to get better.
 

NKR1978

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Kansas and Duke might be the most talented, but I was really impressed with Virginia Saturday. Haven't seen a team carve up the zone in the second half like anyone has in a few years. I know it was their Super Bowl, but they were really impressive. I do think the lack of size is going to hurt Duke at some point, and I think their defensive shortcomings will ultimately be their downfall.

Agree Virginia looked like a great team for huge stretches. Actually reminded me a little bit of some of what we were doing earlier in the year: close game for a while and then just wear the other team down with big shots, crisp offense and the defense clamping down. Wish we could get back to that.

Louisville in the 2nd half of the BET after we were up 15 carved us up like I haven't witnessed since that Kansas 01 NCAA game. I was actually angry after that game and felt those 14 minutes ruined whatever good we built up that week. Loved being wrong.
 

gilardino

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In nearly every post when someone is critical of the current team or of our potential in the tourney someone inevitably brings up last years loss to Gtown and the final four run and laughs off the OP. Maybe I am missing something but I fail to see how last years great run has anything to do with this years team and its struggles down the stretch. Unless MCW or more importantly Jame Southerland are going to be eligible for the tourney making comparisons to last years team is pretty pointless. We are unlikely to get that good a draw again and unfortunately I dont see Cooney getting anywhere near as hot as JS got in the BE tourney and the NCAA's. I have no way of knowing if this years team is going to get back on track offensively and make a deep run, I sure as hell hope they do and I think the pieces are there. But I think some here are setting themselves up for dissapointment if they think this team is going to suddenly flip a switch when the tourney starts.
love debbie downer fans like you
 

SWC75

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Because last year after Georgetown it was rock bottom and if you thought that we would pull ourselves out of that canyon you would be lying. I am probably one of the biggest glass is half full guys in the history of this board and even I thought we were toast last year after that game.

No reason it cant happen again this season. Oh and we lost 10 games last year, this year we have 3 losses so its not that bad.


The reference to last year is not because it was typical. It's because it proves what is possible.

The Virginia game aside, this team needs to score about another 6-8 points per game to go off on another tear. A healthy Grant, Cooney realizing he can be an all-around scorer, not just a three point guy and a realization that we when you drive to the basket you could use that to set up a pass instead of a shot could get us that 6-8 points.
 

Cuseman78

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It doesn't "have anything to do with this years team and its struggles down the stretch" in a literal sense. Its a comparison made to show that a team that isn't playing well can turn it around and accomplish great things, when many seem to be expressing that this year's team is finished as a function of recent poor play.

It took one year to forget that lesson.

Exactly. What I've been trying to say all along. Not only did our own fans forget last years run, but they also forgot that we started 25-0, beat top 10 teams like Duke and Nova, etc. the point is that this years team has the horses to go to another final four. A lot of knee jerkers on this board.
 

swish7

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The reference to last year is not because it was typical. It's because it proves what is possible. The Virginia game aside, this team needs to score about another 6-8 points per game to go off on another tear. A healthy Grant, Cooney realizing he can be an all-around scorer, not just a three point guy and a realization that we when you drive to the basket you could use that to set up a pass instead of a shot could get us that 6-8 points.

I like this, especially the part about getting 8 extra points, but a lot of things are possible, negative and positive. Some people are using the positive possibilities as a wedge when others are simply trying to discuss their perception of "reality". We won the national championship in 1918, so it's possible to win it again. It's weak.

The best experience I had in a chat here recently was when we were watching and chatting about the UNC / Duke game. Talking about Syracuse here, during a slump, is a constant stalemate.

I agree, if we can generate 8 more points, and that is a lot of points, then we are back in the game.
 

JeremyCuse

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love debbie downer fans like you

Debbie Downer? Did you even read the post? Give me a break with that crap. Any hint of criticism these days and half this board has a meltdown, take off the orange colored glasses for a half a minute and get over yourself.
 

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