Curious as to why so many posters keep referencing last years team | Syracusefan.com

Curious as to why so many posters keep referencing last years team

JeremyCuse

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In nearly every post when someone is critical of the current team or of our potential in the tourney someone inevitably brings up last years loss to Gtown and the final four run and laughs off the OP. Maybe I am missing something but I fail to see how last years great run has anything to do with this years team and its struggles down the stretch. Unless MCW or more importantly Jame Southerland are going to be eligible for the tourney making comparisons to last years team is pretty pointless. We are unlikely to get that good a draw again and unfortunately I dont see Cooney getting anywhere near as hot as JS got in the BE tourney and the NCAA's. I have no way of knowing if this years team is going to get back on track offensively and make a deep run, I sure as hell hope they do and I think the pieces are there. But I think some here are setting themselves up for dissapointment if they think this team is going to suddenly flip a switch when the tourney starts.
 

Scotch

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Agreed. Last year's run was great, but it was unusual. Pointing to it as a typical finish for a struggling team, and/or a reason to laugh off concerns about this year's team, is illogical.
 

Nicknack

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You make some good points. However, I do think a switch could be flipped IF we have a healthy Grant on the court. What some are forgetting is that we haven't had our full complement of (healthy) players in a while - the team that went 25-0. Without Grant, we all recognize we are in trouble. When we were without Keita, that also presented a lot of issues for us. IF we can get healthy by the time the NCAA's begin, I still like our chances, I really do.
 

Cusefan0307

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Because some people are optimists and see the good that is still out there in this team. Saturday is the first game all year we weren't in the game. We played without Grant, and if he gets healthy we should be in good shape. I think some people forget how bad it was at the end of last year. We had been blown out twice by Georgetown, and crumbled down the stretch against Louisville at home.

Last year Triche, MCW, and Southerland all were playing awful this time of year. None of them could make a shot. We have guys this year that are going through similar stretches. We know these guys can play better than they have been, but we have to play defense better than we did Saturday. Also a lot of people like me don't like to be doom and gloom. Looking at the negative isn't really going to do anything except make one more frustrated. There is precedent for this, so we are looking at the precedent.
 

JeremyCuse

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You make some good points. However, I do think a switch could be flipped IF we have a healthy Grant on the court. What some are forgetting is that we haven't had our full complement of (healthy) players in a while - the team that went 25-0. Without Grant, we all recognize we are in trouble. When we were without Keita, that also presented a lot of issues for us. IF we can get healthy by the time the NCAA's begin, I still like our chances, I really do.

I think your right about Grant, getting him him healthy really helps this team especially on the defensive boards where we were dominated Saturday. Offensively he adds a lot but I dont think hes a cure all, even with Grant this team has really struggled offensively at times ie BC, NCState etc. That said this team is light years better with Grant on the floor.
 

HakAttack

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Because some people are optimists and see the good that is still out there in this team. Saturday is the first game all year we weren't in the game. We played without Grant, and if he gets healthy we should be in good shape. I think some people forget how bad it was at the end of last year. We had been blown out twice by Georgetown, and crumbled down the stretch against Louisville at home.

Last year Triche, MCW, and Southerland all were playing awful this time of year. None of them could make a shot. We have guys this year that are going through similar stretches. We know these guys can play better than they have been, but we have to play defense better than we did Saturday. Also a lot of people like me don't like to be doom and gloom. Looking at the negative isn't really going to do anything except make one more frustrated. There is precedent for this, so we are looking at the precedent.

2013 MCW, Triche, J-South, Fair & Rak < 2014 Ennis, Cooney, Fair, Grant & Rak.
 

Cusefan0307

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2013 MCW, Triche, J-South, Fair & Rak < 2014 Ennis, Cooney, Fair, Grant & Rak.

I will say despite the amount of steals Ennis and Cooney have, Triche and MCW were better at the top of the zone getting out on shooters and defending penetration. For that reason alone I think our ceiling defensively was a lot higher last year compared to this year, but our ceiling offensively this year should be higher.
 

RF2044

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In nearly every post when someone is critical of the current team or of our potential in the tourney someone inevitably brings up last years loss to Gtown and the final four run and laughs off the OP. Maybe I am missing something but I fail to see how last years great run has anything to do with this years team and its struggles down the stretch. Unless MCW or more importantly Jame Southerland are going to be eligible for the tourney making comparisons to last years team is pretty pointless. We are unlikely to get that good a draw again and unfortunately I dont see Cooney getting anywhere near as hot as JS got in the BE tourney and the NCAA's. I have no way of knowing if this years team is going to get back on track offensively and make a deep run, I sure as hell hope they do and I think the pieces are there. But I think some here are setting themselves up for dissapointment if they think this team is going to suddenly flip a switch when the tourney starts.

It doesn't "have anything to do with this years team and its struggles down the stretch" in a literal sense. Its a comparison made to show that a team that isn't playing well can turn it around and accomplish great things, when many seem to be expressing that this year's team is finished as a function of recent poor play.

It took one year to forget that lesson.
 
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tbonezone

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same question with wichita state. i keep hearing "well they're really good they made the final 4 last year!"
who cares! that's history and says nothing about this years team. they did not return intact. in fact WSU lost 4 seniors who collectively
avg.d about 32 pts and 17 bds. every ncaa team needs to be judged solely on their body of work this season. let the past go !
 

raf4488

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I'm not sure why we're "unlikely" to get a good draw this time. 1/2 seeds usually get fairly favorable draws, and this team will play its first 2 tourney games in front of pro-SU crowds in Buffalo. They may even play the regionals at MSG.

Sure it sucks to lose like we did at Charlottesville, but this team is in great shape. We have one bad loss, and 2 losses on the road to top 10 teams. UVA was our first loss where we didn't have a chance to win at the very end.

SU is sitting at 26-3 with 7 top 50 wins and a 1 seed resume. Let's see if JG can get healthy and let the regular season/ACCT play out before we make judgments about our NCAA chances. Last year, we all felt a hell of lot better after the UL game than after the Gtown game a week earlier. Almost every team goes through a rough stretch at some point. The 2013 team wasn't doomed after their worst performance, and this team likely won't be either.
 

Marsh01

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In nearly every post when someone is critical of the current team or of our potential in the tourney someone inevitably brings up last years loss to Gtown and the final four run and laughs off the OP. Maybe I am missing something but I fail to see how last years great run has anything to do with this years team and its struggles down the stretch. Unless MCW or more importantly Jame Southerland are going to be eligible for the tourney making comparisons to last years team is pretty pointless. We are unlikely to get that good a draw again and unfortunately I dont see Cooney getting anywhere near as hot as JS got in the BE tourney and the NCAA's. I have no way of knowing if this years team is going to get back on track offensively and make a deep run, I sure as hell hope they do and I think the pieces are there. But I think some here are setting themselves up for dissapointment if they think this team is going to suddenly flip a switch when the tourney starts.

Because last year after Georgetown it was rock bottom and if you thought that we would pull ourselves out of that canyon you would be lying. I am probably one of the biggest glass is half full guys in the history of this board and even I thought we were toast last year after that game.

No reason it cant happen again this season. Oh and we lost 10 games last year, this year we have 3 losses so its not that bad.
 

Bayside44

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You can reference most any SU team. Super hot early, a bit of a Feb / later in the season swoon, get our act back together and go.

Even when we've lost early in the NCAA it was always a nailbiter. If Grant is fine we will be fine.
 

JeremyCuse

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Because last year after Georgetown it was rock bottom and if you thought that we would pull ourselves out of that canyon you would be lying. I am probably one of the biggest glass is half full guys in the history of this board and even I thought we were toast last year after that game.

No reason it cant happen again this season. Oh and we lost 10 games last year, this year we have 3 losses so its not that bad.

Certainly agree this team has a good of chance at any of making a deep run in the tourney, I haven't written off this team and I hope no one else has either because they were going to lose some games eventually. My point isnt that this team is unlilkely to duplicate last years results or that this years team is somehow bound to lose early, I just dont get people who just shrug off this teams weaknesses and just point to last year as if were guaranteed to make a run again simply because it happened last year.
 

Alsacs

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Reason why I am optimistic is the whole state of college basketball is down. Its okay for Florida to struggle @Vandy and only win by 3 or struggle @Ole Miss and win by 4 or at home versus Auburn and win by 3 all of whom are not close to NCAA teams, but Syracuse struggles and its the end of the world.

If the best teams in college basketball are Florida, Wichita State, Arizona(without Ashley) then anyone can win the title. The best teams IMO are Kansas and Duke. If Syracuse draws Buffalo-MSG we should get to the Final Four if Grant is healthy. We have C.J. Fair and cold blooded Tyler Ennis. Our offense is not elite, but its good enough to win games.
 

JeremyCuse

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It doesn't "have anything to do with this years team and its struggles down the stretch" in a literal sense. Its a comparison made to show that a team that isn't playing well can turn it around and accomplish great things, when many seem to be expressing that this year's team is finished as a function of recent poor play.

It took one year to forget that lesson.

Honestly outside of one or two posters I haven't seen many people express the opinion that this team is finished by any stretch. To me that would be idiotic, its clear were a really good team that has some flaws that hopefully we can work through to make another deep run. My only point was that I think some people are raising fair points about the flaws of this team that should be debated versus pointing to last years team which I think has pretty much zero barring on this team.
 

orangehomer

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we've been so good on the road for the last several years I think that people forget how hard it actually is to win on the road. the only bad loss is BC, and I think they are a bit better than their record. to me the comparison between last year and this year is that we have been everyone's superbowl, including 3 of them in the past week and that takes a toll on any team. last year we got beat up on the road, every game was "the last time Syracuse is here" and those teams like UConn, nova, gtown were out for blood. once we got on to some neutral courts we started to play better, hopefully that happens for this team too.
 

Pat Kelly

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In nearly every post when someone is critical of the current team or of our potential in the tourney someone inevitably brings up last years loss to Gtown and the final four run and laughs off the OP. Maybe I am missing something but I fail to see how last years great run has anything to do with this years team and its struggles down the stretch. Unless MCW or more importantly Jame Southerland are going to be eligible for the tourney making comparisons to last years team is pretty pointless. We are unlikely to get that good a draw again and unfortunately I dont see Cooney getting anywhere near as hot as JS got in the BE tourney and the NCAA's. I have no way of knowing if this years team is going to get back on track offensively and make a deep run, I sure as hell hope they do and I think the pieces are there. But I think some here are setting themselves up for dissapointment if they think this team is going to suddenly flip a switch when the tourney starts.
Because if you expect us to do anything in the tournament, that team is seriously the ideal comparison. It is exactly the comparison you would want to look at.
 

Cusefan0307

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Reason why I am optimistic is the whole state of college basketball is down. Its okay for Florida to struggle @Vandy and only win by 3 or struggle @Ole Miss and win by 4 or at home versus Auburn and win by 3 all of whom are not close to NCAA teams, but Syracuse struggles and its the end of the world.

If the best teams in college basketball are Florida, Wichita State, Arizona(without Ashley) then anyone can win the title. The best teams IMO are Kansas and Duke. If Syracuse draws Buffalo-MSG we should get to the Final Four if Grant is healthy. We have C.J. Fair and cold blooded Tyler Ennis. Our offense is not elite, but its good enough to win games.

Kansas and Duke might be the most talented, but I was really impressed with Virginia Saturday. Haven't seen a team carve up the zone in the second half like anyone has in a few years. I know it was their Super Bowl, but they were really impressive. I do think the lack of size is going to hurt Duke at some point, and I think their defensive shortcomings will ultimately be their downfall.
 

Nicknack

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I think your right about Grant, getting him him healthy really helps this team especially on the defensive boards where we were dominated Saturday. Offensively he adds a lot but I dont think hes a cure all, even with Grant this team has really struggled offensively at times ie BC, NCState etc. That said this team is light years better with Grant on the floor.

I think we are generally in agreement. However, you illustrate my original point about our struggles with your reply. You stated that Grant really struggled offensively at times, such as against BC and NC State. That is true. How many minutes did Keita play in those two games? Answer = a full 2 minutes.

Is this all on Grant and Keita's injuries? No, but it plays a mighty factor in it all. My point is merely that with a healthy squad (the one that went 25-0), we are fully capable of flipping the switch and making a deep run in the NCAA's.
 
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Alsacs

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Honestly outside of one or two posters I haven't seen many people express the opinion that this team is finished by any stretch. To me that would be idiotic, its clear were a really good team that has some flaws that hopefully we can work through to make another deep run. My only point was that I think some people are raising fair points about the flaws of this team that should be debated versus pointing to last years team which I think has pretty much zero barring on this team.
I don't compare them to last year because the 3 pieces are different this year from last year. I am just saying college basketball as a whole is down and we have enough talent to win a NC. I am hating(not from you by any means) that overt drama that has become infested on this board picking apart our flaws. I have been complaining for weeks/months about the tempo/urgency this team plays with, but at the end of the day we are nitpicking at 26-3 team. I would rather be Syracuse than Iowa who I said yesterday is the opposite of us. They score and are fun to watch, but can't play defense. Our offense isn't that bad its that JB/Syracuse have been playing such a slow game it reduces possessions and our margin for error is less as a result. Our adjusted offense is 21st in the nation. Our points per possession is ranked in the top 5% of the nation, but this season is a lost cause to play faster. We can be concerned but it doesn't change the fact we are NC contender.
 

JeremyCuse

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Because if you expect us to do anything in the tournament, that team is seriously the ideal comparison. It is exactly the comparison you would want to look at.

I would disagree with that, not sure the two teams are that similar. Last years team didnt have anywhere near the winning streak this years team had or won as many big games ie Nova, Pitt, UNC, DUke. Last years team had a huge win at Lville but also two horrific games against Gtown, this years team outside of UVA has been in every game. Last years team also had much more experienced leadership in Triche and JS and even MCW who had been in the program for a year. The shooting potentials of each team are also night and day, theres no James Southerland on this years team.
 

SoBeCuse

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I will say despite the amount of steals Ennis and Cooney have, Triche and MCW were better at the top of the zone getting out on shooters and defending penetration. For that reason alone I think our ceiling defensively was a lot higher last year compared to this year, but our ceiling offensively this year should be higher.

I would agree with this contingent upon a healthy Grant of course. Cooney/Ennis are getting turned around and/or caught cheating into the high post for some reason and can't recover to shooters. It is so frustrating to watch the past month especially. I think fatigue is a factor at times but in general sometimes I don't know what they're thinking out there.
 

Alsacs

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Kansas and Duke might be the most talented, but I was really impressed with Virginia Saturday. Haven't seen a team carve up the zone in the second half like anyone has in a few years. I know it was their Super Bowl, but they were really impressive. I do think the lack of size is going to hurt Duke at some point, and I think their defensive shortcomings will ultimately be their downfall.
UVA is Miami 2013 IMO they are a sweet 16 team. They are a tough matchup for us because they had 2 bigs crash the offensive glass in the first half and then in the 2nd half that left handed shooter hit 3 3's and the zone wasn't extended. I honestly won't put UVA going that far in the NCAA Tournament unless they get a great draw.
 

Cusefan0307

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I don't compare them to last year because the 3 pieces are different this year from last year. I am just saying college basketball as a whole is down and we have enough talent to win a NC. I am hating(not from you by any means) that overt drama that has become infested on this board picking apart our flaws. I have been complaining for weeks/months about the tempo/urgency this team plays with, but at the end of the day we are nitpicking at 26-3 team. I would rather be Syracuse than Iowa who I said yesterday is the opposite of us. They score and are fun to watch, but can't play defense. Our offense isn't that bad its that JB/Syracuse have been playing such a slow game it reduces possessions and our margin for error is less as a result. Our adjusted offense is 21st in the nation. Our points per possession is ranked in the top 5% of the nation, but this season is a lost cause to play faster. We can be concerned but it doesn't change the fact we are NC contender.

100 percent agree with this post. I think Syracuse plays defense the past five years than we ever have in our history. People bring up the late 80's teams, and while they had a ton of firepower, i think these team probably are more dedicated to the defensive end.
 

orangecuse

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Is this team really playing poor right now or is it really playing status quo as it has the majority of the season? It's easy to look at 25-0 and four games later at 26-3 and say that we just aren't playing that well right now. However, this team's code has been triggering false positives all year...many very close games against teams where they had to make clutch plays late down the stretch to pull it out. Kudos to the guys for doing it, but for me, it keeps things in perspective. We could easily have at least two more losses (Pitt & NCSU the obvious) as well as others...be at 24-5 or 23-6, etc. JB has eluded to as much all year, but who's really listening to him when the team is 25-0, it's shrugged off as just coach speak...

I'm not implying that this team can not make a deep run again in this year's tourney, if for nothing more than the fact that so many of even the top teams have demonstrated all season their vulnerabilities as well. If this team does make a deep run, it'll be because of great defense...and just enough offense (as the year's data suggests) to eek it out.

I look at it from a realist approach...weighing the pros and cons...
 
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