Curse of Coach P

[storange]

It's the curse of the folks who made decisions back in 2004 who didn't understand the situation, and the curse of locals - like Brent Axe - who mouth off for attention - and don't know or understand the facts or the inner workings of major college football.

Axe was flat out insulting on his show referring to P as a “bafoon” . Be careful what you wish for is the cautionary tale. Dino is far from perfect but he has put a highly competitive team on the field this season. Let’s hope we can grab a few breaks the last half and grab a bowl bid. ( And please don’t take the word breaks literally)

 

[texascpa]

Maybe. I'm not sure one player that's not a QB changes the whole program's trajectory. In 2002 Walter Reyes ran for over 1100 yards and set the single season record for rushing TDs (17) and we were 4-8. The next year he ran for over 1300, coming close to Joe Morris's record, and broke his single season record for rushing TDs (20) and we were 6-6.

He changed Rutgers. Do you remember their QB during Rice's run? I don't. But, I sure do remember Ray Rice (and Brian Leonard).

 

[baggerbob]

Wait, are you saying that there were actually several factors? That's not allowed.
You make a very strong point that shouldn't be overlooked or forgotten. And that is, Buzz was not a strong advocate for the athletic department, particularly the football team.

Buzz was always the problem, and then Nancy took over and it got worse. Those 2 Chancellors didn't appreciate what sports brought to the table. We now have someone who understands this.

 

[sufandu]

He changed Rutgers. Do you remember their QB during Rice's run? I don't. But, I sure do remember Ray Rice (and Brian Leonard).

You remember only Ray Rice because we lost him and you're not a Rutgers fan. How many non SU fans remember Jason Poles or Quinton Harris or Clifton Smith or Shelby Hill? There were 13 guys on the 2005 Rutgers team (Rice's freshman year) that saw time in the NFL. 7 were at least a year ahead of him. The turnaround was underway before he got there.

 

[OrangePA]

P was let go at the right time, IMO. His tenure was… tired.
It was the WAY it was done, AND the guy who replaced him, that was the real mistake.

Not accurate in my opinion. And the record for the program since 2004 bears that out. The problem is financial. The problem is not coaching.

 

[kirbivore]

P was let go at the right time, IMO. His tenure was… tired.
It was the WAY it was done, AND the guy who replaced him, that was the real mistake.

Reacting to a collective temper tantrum by well heeled alums at halftime of a bowl game is not the time to make that move, putting you way behind the 8 ball in the hiring cycle. But being reactive instead of proactive is the SU way.

 

[kirbivore]

Not accurate in my opinion. And the record for the program since 2004 bears that out. The problem is financial. The problem is not coaching.

P should have grown a pair and went public about Shaw siphoning off the money.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Reacting to a collective temper tantrum by well heeled alums at halftime of a bowl game is not the time to make that move, putting you way behind the 8 ball in the hiring cycle. But being reactive instead of proactive is the SU way.

Fair enough. But I submit P wasn't canned because of some alumni hissy-fit. The writing was on the wall for years. I distinctly remember getting a fundraising call from SU 2 years before he was canned, and my reaction at the time was; "I'm not giving a penny until the AD fires Paul Pasqualoni"!
Look, agree or disagree, in hindsight the decision was bad. But again, if put in proper context I can definitely understand why, and I agreed with the decision. It was time. JMHO

 

[Evan Miller]

Fair enough. But I submit P wasn't canned because of some alumni hissy-fit. The writing was on the wall for years. I distinctly remember getting a fundraising call from SU 2 years before he was canned, and my reaction at the time was; "I'm not giving a penny until the AD fires Paul Pasqualoni"!
Look, agree or disagree, in hindsight the decision was bad. But again, if put in proper context I can definitely understand why, and I agreed, with the decision. It was time. JMHO

P is a great FB coach. Perhaps not a great recruiter. But few have total package. As far as football knowledge...superior. It is ironic he got fired with a 6-6 record. Deemed as totally unacceptable. Actually, the guy who fired P should have been the one fired.

Now 6-6 would get a parade.

 

[DoctorBombay]

P is a great FB coach. Perhaps not a great recruiter. But few have total package. As far as football knowledge...superior. It is ironic he got fired with a 6-6 record. Deemed as totally unacceptable. Actually, the guy who fired P should have been the one fired.

Now 6-6 would get a parade.

Absolutely. "You don't miss the water, till the well runs dry.

 

[sufandu]

P is a great FB coach. Perhaps not a great recruiter. But few have total package. As far as football knowledge...superior. It is ironic he got fired with a 6-6 record. Deemed as totally unacceptable. Actually, the guy who fired P should have been the one fired.

Now 6-6 would get a parade.

I feel like P's strength was teaching fundamentals and technique. It's why he stuck around for so long in the NFL as a position coach. I don't think he's all that creative which may be why his stints as a coordinator in the NFL were short lived. I know he was respected in coaching circles, but there are reasons that, despite a very good overall record at SU, other schools weren't fighting to have him take over their program or snatching him up as a coordinator after he was fired. I would think other ADs had to be aware of the way he was being hamstrung financially.

Gross screwed up a lot of stuff.

 

[elimunelson]

P is a great FB coach. Perhaps not a great recruiter. But few have total package. As far as football knowledge...superior. It is ironic he got fired with a 6-6 record. Deemed as totally unacceptable. Actually, the guy who fired P should have been the one fired.

Now 6-6 would get a parade.

If P wasn't a great recruiter then what are the guys who followed him? He actually pulled in top 30 classes which seems like a pipe dream now. To land a McNabb, Konrad, you have to be doing something right.

P ran a good program. It was professional. He was respected. Wasn't he the head of the coaches association when he was fired or something?

We yearn for an other Pasqualoni.

 

[GoSU96]

Fair enough. But I submit P wasn't canned because of some alumni hissy-fit. The writing was on the wall for years. I distinctly remember getting a fundraising call from SU 2 years before he was canned, and my reaction at the time was; "I'm not giving a penny until the AD fires Paul Pasqualoni"!
Look, agree or disagree, in hindsight the decision was bad. But again, if put in proper context I can definitely understand why, and I agreed with the decision. It was time. JMHO

So you wanted the guy fired within a year of a 10-3 season?

 

[Evan Miller]

If P wasn't a great recruiter then what are the guys who followed him? He actually pulled in top 30 classes which seems like a pipe dream now. To land a McNabb, Konrad, you have to be doing something right.

P ran a good program. It was professional. He was respected. Wasn't he the head of the coaches association when he was fired or something?

We yearn for an other Pasqualoni.

I also think a P type might be good in this respect. His teaching ability and NFL pedigree. In 2021...recruiting...you have to sell the NFL. As in, " I coached in NFL, I can develop NFL talent, I know what NFL teams want, I can get you there".

I think the NFL is how most schools will have to recruit now. Selling education, school, city etc ...it is all blah, blah, blah. Players, at least 80%, could care less except about how do you get me to pro ball.

One thing P knew was how to teach, develop talent and he was a very good coach in NFL.

 

[kirbivore]

Fair enough. But I submit P wasn't canned because of some alumni hissy-fit. The writing was on the wall for years. I distinctly remember getting a fundraising call from SU 2 years before he was canned, and my reaction at the time was; "I'm not giving a penny until the AD fires Paul Pasqualoni"!
Look, agree or disagree, in hindsight the decision was bad. But again, if put in proper context I can definitely understand why, and I agreed with the decision. It was time. JMHO

Totally agree his time had come. He should have been informed he wasn't coming back in 2005 after the final regular season game so they could have time to hire a better coach than Gerg. Coach P then would be given the option to coach the bowl game or leave immediately.

 

[Deleted member 8116]

I believe there was a good linebacker that was coming also.

Courtney Greene. Freshman All-American All Big East and most likely the best defensive player Rutgers ever had.

 

[DoctorBombay]

So you wanted the guy fired within a year of a 10-3 season?

Again, in hindsight it was a bad decision. But being the entitled fan and fanbase we’d become, it was not a stretch that most folks, yes MOST, wanted him gone. I remember years we were ranked and inevitably lose an early season game to drop out of NC consideration. Couple that with the blowouts we saw that year, and yes, our spoiled fans wanted a change.
P was unappreciated, that’s a given- more so now in hindsight. But a lot of us felt that we were never gonna win a championship w/ him at the helm. Today, we’d give our left nodule just to sniff an ACC or CFP title game.
But life isn’t lived in hindsight, so…

 

[sufandu]

Again, in hindsight it was a bad decision. But being the entitled fan and fanbase we’d become, it was not a stretch that most folks, yes MOST, wanted him gone. I remember years we were ranked and inevitably lose an early season game to drop out of NC consideration. Couple that with the blowouts we saw that year, and yes, our spoiled fans wanted a change.
P was unappreciated, that’s a given- more so now in hindsight. But a lot of us felt that we were never gonna win a championship w/ him at the helm. Today, we’d give our left nodule just to sniff an ACC or CFP title game.
But life isn’t lived in hindsight, so…

And I think fans weren't decieved. They knew that 10 win season was the magic of Freeney and it wasn't repeatable. How many teams with 10 wins average fewer yards per game than their opponent?

 

[GoSU96]

Again, in hindsight it was a bad decision. But being the entitled fan and fanbase we’d become, it was not a stretch that most folks, yes MOST, wanted him gone. I remember years we were ranked and inevitably lose an early season game to drop out of NC consideration. Couple that with the blowouts we saw that year, and yes, our spoiled fans wanted a change.
P was unappreciated, that’s a given- more so now in hindsight. But a lot of us felt that we were never gonna win a championship w/ him at the helm. Today, we’d give our left nodule just to sniff an ACC or CFP title game.
But life isn’t lived in hindsight, so…

And there were people that said it was a bad decision then.

no hindsight needed

 

[Deleted member 8116]

Again, in hindsight it was a bad decision. But being the entitled fan and fanbase we’d become, it was not a stretch that most folks, yes MOST, wanted him gone. I remember years we were ranked and inevitably lose an early season game to drop out of NC consideration. Couple that with the blowouts we saw that year, and yes, our spoiled fans wanted a change.

P was unappreciated, that’s a given- more so now in hindsight. But a lot of us felt that we were never gonna win a championship w/ him at the helm. Today, we’d give our left nodule just to sniff an ACC or CFP title game.
But life isn’t lived in hindsight, so…

ACC or CFP?? Playoffs? I just hope…

How about they put together a winning season before we start worrying about an ACC title and CFP.

 

[Pyle]

Lmao. You think a 20 year bad run is a curse? You don't understand curse until you wear Honolulu Blue on Sundays. The Lions have 1 playoff win since 1957 when Bobby Layne proclaimed that they won't win another championship for 50 years. We are now 14 years past the expiration date of the Curse of Bobby Layne and still can't shake bobby's demons.

We did manage to set yet another new record, we are the first team to lose on last second FGs of 50+ yards twice in the same season and it's only game 5. Both the current and previous records for longest FG were made against us. Don't even get me started on stuff like the Calvin rule, the picked up Dallas PI, the unflagged ball punch out of the endzone, etc, etc, etc. You think refs influence SU games? I have seen NFL refs literally rip victory out of our hands and give it to the other team.

 

[dollarbill44]

I think there is a lot that has been forgotten going back to the 1999-2004 timeframe - a lot of context. After McNabb, recruiting dropped off a lot, and not just at QB, which was the most egregious failure. Yes, he had Ray Rice and Courtney Greene lined up to come in, but the talent level had been diminishing. There were also a bunch of weird decisions (burning Morant's redshirt for one play, starting Joe Fields against Purdue, kicking a FG down 5 at BC with 2 minutes to go) and really bad (BAD) losses. I mean regular major @ss-whoopings (anyone at VaTech in 1999?, Miami 2001?, the aforementioned Purdue game among several others). He lost to Temple and Rutgers. I remember a horrible Pitt loss for homecoming where the team just didn't show up (it was 48-3 at one point). McNabb's last 3 years each had losses that shouldn't have happened that ruined chances at very special seasons. Even the final "successful" season was salvaged by arguably the best all-around single game performance ever at SU by Diamond Ferri, otherwise, we never would have been able to enjoy the bowl game against GT (14-51).
In short, it wasn't a knee-jerk reaction to a mediocre season that is being painted by a lot of posters.

And, it's dishonest to use the hiring of Gerg as supporting evidence for keeping Coach P. Those were two separate decisions. The fact Gross made a ridiculously incompetent hire does not change that SU football had been in decline.

 

[tbonezone]

i remember being in town and staying at the CRAFTSMEN inn (before the makeover) when i came downstairs for a bagel and coffee and picked up the paper to see that michael vick had verballed to the hokies. dawned on me at that moment. end of an impressive string.

 

[Chip]

These trips down memory lane are so fun.

By the way, it's the curse of Mike Vick.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I think there is a lot that has been forgotten going back to the 1999-2004 timeframe - a lot of context. After McNabb, recruiting dropped off a lot, and not just at QB, which was the most egregious failure. Yes, he had Ray Rice and Courtney Greene lined up to come in, but the talent level had been diminishing. There were also a bunch of weird decisions (burning Morant's redshirt for one play, starting Joe Fields against Purdue, kicking a FG down 5 at BC with 2 minutes to go) and really bad (BAD) losses. I mean regular major @ss-whoopings (anyone at VaTech in 1999?, Miami 2001?, the aforementioned Purdue game among several others). He lost to Temple and Rutgers. I remember a horrible Pitt loss for homecoming where the team just didn't show up (it was 48-3 at one point). McNabb's last 3 years each had losses that shouldn't have happened that ruined chances at very special seasons. Even the final "successful" season was salvaged by arguably the best all-around single game performance ever at SU by Diamond Ferri, otherwise, we never would have been able to enjoy the bowl game against GT (14-51).
In short, it wasn't a knee-jerk reaction to a mediocre season that is being painted by a lot of posters.

And, it's dishonest to use the hiring of Gerg as supporting evidence for keeping Coach P. Those were two separate decisions. The fact Gross made a ridiculously incompetent hire does not change that SU football had been in decline.

This^^^.
Says it better than i ever could. The “McNabb’s last 3 years” part really says it for me. It was excruciating losing an early season game, only to run off a string of wins, which today might’ve meant qualifying for the CFP, but back then just meant you’re isht outta luck till next year. I was bitter and angry, and shed no tears when P was let go.