Dajuan

[BlueCurtain]

And yes, I could actually see Xmas having a Warrick type development.

Not going to happen playing 2 minutes a game. Wasted year.

I would love to know what the bigs are actually coached up in practice. Learning a drop-step move or baby hook is NOT that difficult. We're not talking dancing-with-the-stars level of choreography. I don't buy the concept that bigs take longer to figure it out - that just sounds like an excuse. It's 50% coaching, 50% body coordination.

 

[Czar]

Where's Fab going? Is there a pro league in Brazil? Seriously, I love the inprovement in his game. But, he needs to play to get better. He won't play in the NBA. He'll sit and rot like good fruit. Don't be stupid like Dante Green and jump at the first $ign of some cash and end up riding buses in the D league.
One of the joys of college hoops is watching guys develop and unfold befor our eyes. Rony was probably the best example of that among our centers. He came in as a raw athlete and left as a guy starting as a rookie in the association with a very successful career to follow.

Melo has no chance of ever being in the D-League

 

[SoBristol]

Here's my issue with Syracuse's game. They *never* feed the post consistently. You had Arinze who left as a 67% FG shooter his last two years, yet you never saw a game where he had more than 7 FGA. When you have a guy who's doing this, keep feeding him, to the point of overuse. Currently, you have Fab who has shown a jumper, he's shown some passing skills, and he's shown some moves, but he goes 4-7 vs Marshall, 4-5 vs Fl, 1-3 vs EMU, 3-6 vs Stanford/VaTech. When is the last time any SU post player got ten shots? SU just doesn't use their post presence.

I wouldn't worry about Coleman on defense. SU worked Onuaku and Jackson on the zone, neither of whom were that mobile. They'll find a way to work Fab, DC, Rakeem, and Keita somehow.

And while I think he's not ready, if SU goes to the Final Four, I'm pretty certain that Fab, along with Dion, will be declaring for the NBA. Fab will be 22 at the end of the school year, and Nike has got to be salivating over the prospect of a guy named "Fab Melo", from a basketball popular country, playing in the NBA.

Kev

I agree with the point about defense. JB could rotate those guys, use more mobile forwards to match up when the opponents have wing shooters, and use two bigs for several minutes each half.
I don't agree about AO or RJ -- they got their post touches as part of the balanced offense. When you have Andy and Wes, you have some perimeter weapons and don't need to over-weight the post.
As for Fab, a lot of his 4-7 vs Marshall etc are coming from alley-oops or put backs. He doesn't have a true post game. Folks who are saying "feed the post" are making an assumption about Fab that doesn't fit what he is showing when he gets the ball.

 

[TheRoyalIveyFund]

I know this is premature. Please skip the posts criticizing bringing this up. I'm just concerned about future post production. RJ, AO were such a luxury.

So, where does DC fit in next year? He is not a 4. He cannot play the 4 in a zone. No chance. He will have the most refined offensive game of our bigs before he sets foot on campus. No question. He has excellent post moves for a young player. Melo has none. Xmas has less than none. He has great footwork. Intensity. I've seen him play pissed off. He's not ur soft big. To me he's part Demarcus Cousins, part Dejaun Blair (again, not the he is those guys, please skip the he has a long way to go posts, just comparing...).

He played pissed as a frosh, soph. I think he's bored. Really wish he went to Oak Hill for a year. He garnered tons of respect for two years in elite all star games. Now back to playing ESM.

Hopefully he's okay with backing up Melo for a year. It's the most talent we will have in our front court since the late 80's. I just wonder how it will be managed. Melo, Xmas, DC have nasty potential.

So, Melo has to start and play a lot. How do we get DC on the court to maximize his post production? He is not a 4.

Again, premature. many factors might change. Just curious what people think.

General, you make a lot great hoops posts. Are you dro's friend, btw?

Any who, I completely agree with your enthusiasm for DC. He really reminds me of Blair and that is great because he can be one of those that dominate college while not being a top NBA type talent that would jump after 1 year, or 2. Those guys are big and have a great feel around the basketball which translates into easy points.

I would not worry because if two internet geeks like us see DC as that type of player, JB and Hop see him like that, too. You don't think JB has been thinking about how to use DC for about 3 years already? HA! He starts at the 4 or 5 and we feed him the ball, a lot. Now, I don't know if this means Fab would be gone, or Fab/DC frontline with Rak still on the bench, etc. Who knows?

Also, If DC finished school and JB says lose 10 lbps and you can be the four, I could see him being quick enough to get out on the shooter. He is a lot more agile than others bigs, like an AO, or even Rick.

 

[reedny]

Fab on the wing in the zone sounds absurd. That's asking a lot of a 7 footer. I picture hin either steamrolling guys or getting dribbled right past. He was Craig Forth -2.0 last year, dont forget. Do you want Gus Siock closing out on shooters?

Anyway... yes, Fab and Xmas have tons of potential. What I'm saying is obviously we clearly have no interest in developing that potential this year. We DO NOT feed the post. Melo scores on oops and put backs. Tht isnt changing come Big East play.

Xmas will get 5-8 minutes a game.

DC will step onto campus as the most polished offensive player we have. It's not close. Fab has made huge strides. Esp on defensive end. Why aren't we trying to develop his post game? We aren't. The guards don't feed him. Against Colgate would be the time to try. We didn't. We aren't.

I've watched DC for 4 years. He can board. He rips outlets like a QB. And he has a variety of post moves. He is far more polished than either of our current bigs. Fact.

I agree about DC's offense.. even in the allstar games against good competition, he's out there pulling drop steps, baby hooks, up and unders, etc... So he'll come in loaded on offense and will help us immediately.
But this creates a problem for our inside rotation. If Fab goes out when DC is in, we loose Fab's rather large presence on defense/shot blocking. At 280, I don't expect DC to be an eraser on defense. Also, I expect him to be gasping for air as he gets used to running the floor against BE competition. Fab has already adjusted in that area.

Is it even possible to have Fab and DC playing together in the zone (which would mean one plays the 4)? What happens on defense when guys shoot from the corner? On one side, we'd have a smaller forward (JS or CJ) to run out on shooters. On the other, I agree that you can't ask Fab or a 280 pound guy to dive at a guy shooting just in front of the bench.

This means having either Fab or DC playing the middle, leaving X-Mas and Keita to play the 4 (and some 5) to help on the boards. This is realistic because Keita and X-Mas are the only bigs that CAN move out on shooters. X-mas needs to develop obviously. That allows DC to get backup minutes at the 5 and gives us the inside offensive spark we've been needing.

This year -- I have shouted many times ... "throw it" (to an inside guy). X-mas gets position and calls for the ball (nothing). Fab gets position and calls... (nothing)(although he often draws a double). It's pretty frustrating ... esp for a team that can't get its half court offense to catch fire. And it deprives Fab and X-mas of the experience they need to try moves.

 

[OttoMets]

Fab on the wing in the zone sounds absurd. That's asking a lot of a 7 footer. I picture hin either steamrolling guys or getting dribbled right past. He was Craig Forth -2.0 last year, dont forget. Do you want Gus Siock closing out on shooters?
Anyway... yes, Fab and Xmas have tons of potential. What I'm saying is obviously we clearly have no interest in developing that potential this year. We DO NOT feed the post. Melo scores on oops and put backs. Tht isnt changing come Big East play.
Xmas will get 5-8 minutes a game.
DC will step onto campus as the most polished offensive player we have. It's not close. Fab has made huge strides. Esp on defensive end. Why aren't we trying to develop his post game? We aren't. The guards don't feed him. Against Colgate would be the time to try. We didn't. We aren't.
I've watched DC for 4 years. He can board. He rips outlets like a QB. And he has a variety of post moves. He is far more polished than either of our current bigs. Fact.

A couple points. First, you've seen Coleman play more than I have, but I'm pretty hesitant to predict how a big's post-moves are going to succeed against real high-level basketball players rather than high school kids.

Also, I just don't think Boeheim wants to run an offense that heavily features the center. We're feeding the post less this year than we did the past couple, but when have we ever truly used our center to his fullest potential. I was hollering for three years that Arinze should be getting 20 touches a night; he never did. LeRon Ellis came in here after putting up first-team Big East -level numbers at Kentucky; he barely had a role in the offense. Fab clearly has post moves, has good hands, is a great (not good) passer, and can jump over people; as another poster noted last night, Boeheim isn't barking at the guards to feed him the ball. Scoop finds him once in awhile, Williams does occasionally, but it's pretty evident that Syracuse doesn't want a low-post offense.

So I have no idea where Coleman fits in (though, as you said, it's got to be at the 5). But I don't know how good (or fit) he can be, and I am very skeptical that Syracuse is going to feature him in any meaningful way even if he is good.

 

[OttoMets]

Here's my issue with Syracuse's game. They *never* feed the post consistently. You had Arinze who left as a 67% FG shooter his last two years, yet you never saw a game where he had more than 7 FGA. When you have a guy who's doing this, keep feeding him, to the point of overuse. Currently, you have Fab who has shown a jumper, he's shown some passing skills, and he's shown some moves, but he goes 4-7 vs Marshall, 4-5 vs Fl, 1-3 vs EMU, 3-6 vs Stanford/VaTech. When is the last time any SU post player got ten shots? SU just doesn't use their post presence.

I wouldn't worry about Coleman on defense. SU worked Onuaku and Jackson on the zone, neither of whom were that mobile. They'll find a way to work Fab, DC, Rakeem, and Keita somehow.

There you go - beat me to it. Boeheim's Syracuse isn't a low-post scoring team, even if we have an offensively-skilled big.

I do worry about Coleman on defense; even if he gets the conditioning problem solved (and to me that is a big "if"), it's still extremely difficult for a freshman to come in and play the 2-3 well. We've seen a ton of guys get chewed out by Boeheim (right on up through Fab, Dion, and Christmas) because it's a bit of a counterintuitive defense that guys have next to no experience with.

 

[Oakland]

You really don't understand anything about the center position in basketball, do you? In what world is BK farther along offensively than Melo?

This world, maybe. BK scores the same amount of pts per min as Melo, except BK connects on a much higher % of them.

 

[The General]

I'm pretty sure he means that BK is further along offensively than XMAS, not Melo.

Correct

 

[The General]

A couple points. First, you've seen Coleman play more than I have, but I'm pretty hesitant to predict how a big's post-moves are going to succeed against real high-level basketball players rather than high school kids.

Also, I just don't think Boeheim wants to run an offense that heavily features the center. We're feeding the post less this year than we did the past couple, but when have we ever truly used our center to his fullest potential. I was hollering for three years that Arinze should be getting 20 touches a night; he never did. LeRon Ellis came in here after putting up first-team Big East -level numbers at Kentucky; he barely had a role in the offense. Fab clearly has post moves, has good hands, is a great (not good) passer, and can jump over people; as another poster noted last night, Boeheim isn't barking at the guards to feed him the ball. Scoop finds him once in awhile, Williams does occasionally, but it's pretty evident that Syracuse doesn't want a low-post offense.

So I have no idea where Coleman fits in (though, as you said, it's got to be at the 5). But I don't know how good (or fit) he can be, and I am very skeptical that Syracuse is going to feature him in any meaningful way even if he is good.

There were times when we fed Rick like crazy last year. Especially when we really needed to get a bucket. Arinze should have gotten the ball more. Coleman has some Arinze in his game except he can hit free throws. Maybe Arinze wasn't as featured because of his FT deficiency. Arinze also wasnt a great passer.

The '05 team also fed the post like crazy. Warrick posted up all the time. On his way to being a first team AA. Force feeding Warrick in the post vs. Vermont led to 11 Warrick TOs and an upset. If we got a guy down there who can score, I think we get him post touches.

Maybe it has as much to do with the personnel around the post player. In '05 it was Warrick and Gerry on O and thats pretty much it. But I do think if we have a dominant post presence we will utilize it. Anyone knows if you can slam inside 15-20 times a game and get points or easy kick outs you do it.

It surprises me that we never give Fab the ball in the post. He works to get position, gets open and gets looked off. I know he has a tendency to be a spaz when he gets the ball but he is a really good passer and it could help open some other things up. Just not gonna happen I guess.

I believe that Coleman's skill set will translate well. He'll get buckets. He'll get to the line. JB has been drooling over this kid for years. I think we'll utilize him effectively.