Damn: The Closet Door Keeps Opening--a little at a time

[arbitragegls]

Interestingly, past discussions and points of view seem to be moving toward reality. This will not discuss the ACC Channel/network--more on that coming soon; but rather bringing more and more information leading to reality of ACC conference revenue share and potential bball in NYC.

Recent Swofford interview by David Teel--one of best sources of ACC information a day ago--brought to light several important concepts we have discussed previously:

1. Football Revenue Share: Remember we discussed that something had to be done to make sure the Teams in ACC remained in the conference and that their competitive level vs. other conferences remained high. Our discussion was about keeping equal shares but doing so in a manner that would provide additional $$$ to those teams going to bowls etc. Well here is where the ACC appears to be netting out:
Whereas ACC Conference will continue to "equally share" dollars from bowls; that equal share will be the resulting pie after:

• Significant dollars will come out of pot first for those teams that make it to the ACC Championship game as well as College Playoff Games
• Designating initial dollars coming out of the Bowl monies for teams that are going to the bowls such that more dollars being given for travel, expenses, and a bonus prior to sharing the remaining dollars equally to all schools
• And as for Notre Dame being a leach...how about this: does not receive any of the College Playoff monies and does not even receive its 1/15 share of bowl monies if it qualifies for the 6 team playoff--so Notre Dame isn't taking from the overall pot during its most successful seasons...but is contributing when it doesnt make the 6 team playoff but goes to another bowl...it shares in step with points above.

The ACC is moving to equal revenue share AFTER THE SUCCESSFUL TEAMS receive dollars that will exceed the shares of all other teams. So for example, Wake Forest will receive an equal share to any team that does not go to a bowl game; but significantly less than teams that do.
Have on good word that this will carry over for BBall and other sports teams as well...thus if you are not one of the best in conference for football or bball, your team can still generate additional dollars from being best in baseball, Lax etc.
Now for BBall and NYC: Word is and indicated in interview that NYC will house the ACC tournament sometime in the future and for multiple years. As indicated previously in our discussions, we indicated 2016 as being the target year. This remains the case. In fact, this October we should get a good handle as to where, when, and how long this is being contracted for-MSG and Brooklyn are the key venues.
And finally for this update: Listen to what the Pac 12 and B1G Commissioners say in their discussions on the NCAA--there are significant changes coming and Swofford gave it a time frame: August -January for things to come together...it is already broken apart. Significantly, the dollar value of what is about to take place makes much in corporate America look puny...as some have said 'Make it Rain' and the downpour of dollars is going to exceed all expectations.
Here is the Teel Interview in full--so far our "stealth" side discussions have proven accurate. Maybe we should charge more for the pay side (Jack & Coke Mist).
http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-blog/dp-teel-time-swofford-at-kickoff,0,6431049.story
Have fun commenting and adding to the discussion.
As always:
It is Good to be 'Cuse!!!!!

 

[brandokc]

I thought you had some inside info on Chip and Milly. Great post chocked full of info as usual. Thank you!

 

[texascpa]

It's going to happen Aug-Jan because the next executive meeting for the NCAA is in January. There's a steamroll of support for a stipend for players. If they can't get that passed, then expect the Big 5 to break off and become a new division. Thank goodness we are in the ACC and won't get left behind in that split unlike UConn.

 

[KaiserUEO]

lil' help, lil' help......

so if i read this correctly, all nd is doing is not being able to double dip, right?

if they make the playoff, they keep their share to themselves and the ACC teams split its 1/14.

but if nd makes say 1 of those disney bowls, the pot gets split 1/15.

you cant tell me if they make a playoff, they dont get a dime.

thanks.

 

[orange79]

lil' help, lil' help......

so if i read this correctly, all nd is doing is not being able to double dip, right?

if they make the playoff, they keep their share to themselves and the ACC teams split its 1/14.

but if nd makes say 1 of those disney bowls, the pot gets split 1/15.

you cant tell me if they make a playoff, they dont get a dime.

thanks.

The way I read it was, in years where ND does make the playoff, it gets to keep the money it made on the playoff, but does not share in the ACC's playoff pool. When it doesn't make the playoff, it contributes to the bowl pool and gets 1/15th.

 

[FAL]

So from student-athlete to semi-student - semi-pro athlete? I guess it was inevitable...

 

[Alsacs]

Good stuff, the interesting stuff is the talk about a new sub-division of Division 1 football. I am sure the big 5 conferences want to add stipends to all scholarships or atleast as Steve Spurrier has said the revenue sports of football and basketball. If the NCAA small schools keep voting down the stipends in votes because they have 250+ members and the big 5+ND only have 65 members they will always be outvoted and change won't happen. Swofford and the Big XII commish both laying down statements a new division may be necessary is laying the foundation for a split to occur if the big 5 conferences don't get their way. With atleast 20 million dollars a year annually in TV revenue and ticket sales, sponsorships money the power 5 could afford to give stipends while the MAC, MWC, AAC, Sun Belt, WAC would totally be outgunned this is the discussion to be watching. I am wondering what Delany will say about a splitting from the NCAA and forming a big 5 dub division in college football at the B1G media day. If Delany joins Swofford, Slive, Big XII commish in being favor of splitting lookout college football

 

[Toga]

ACC will handle ticket shortfalls for bowl games. Particularly nice for teams that don't travel well. I remember when UConn lost a gazillion dollars on ticket shortfalls when they went to Fiesta.

 

[javadoc]

Good stuff, the interesting stuff is the talk about a new sub-division of Division 1 football.

If we really are going down this road and the gigantic factories, with their gazillions of dollars, are going to be controlling things even more than they do now, we need to be careful about how we proceed. We could very easily get swamped and lost in that environment.

I'll dust off my proposal again. Let's dispense with the student-athlete fiction and give the kids a choice of whether they want to be students at all. Keep the rosters at 85, and forbid walk-ons. Each player gets a cash award equal to the market value of the scholarship they would have received in the old system. They can enroll in school with that money if they want, maybe enroll for a limited number of credit hours if they so desire, etc. If they enroll full-time, they get a small stipend for routine expenses. All rules concerning academic status and progress are jettisoned. Boosters are still forbidden to do the meddlesome things they do today.

We are currently giving each player an enormous financial reward compared to the big state factories. If we can turn that into a liquid asset we stand to benefit greatly.

 

[Alsacs]

If we really are going down this road and the gigantic factories, with their gazillions of dollars, are going to be controlling things even more than they do now, we need to be careful about how we proceed. We could very easily get swamped and lost in that environment.

I'll dust off my proposal again. Let's dispense with the student-athlete fiction and give the kids a choice of whether they want to be students at all. Keep the rosters at 85, and forbid walk-ons. Each player gets a cash award equal to the market value of the scholarship they would have received in the old system. They can enroll in school with that money if they want, maybe enroll for a limited number of credit hours if they so desire, etc. If they enroll full-time, they get a small stipend for routine expenses. All rules concerning academic status and progress are jettisoned. Boosters are still forbidden to do the meddlesome things they do today.

We are currently giving each player an enormous financial reward compared to the big state factories. If we can turn that into a liquid asset we stand to benefit greatly.

I understand what your saying a Syracuse scholarship is worth more money than Rutgers scholarship or Pittsburgh scholarship, but that is because Syracuse chooses in the free market to charge more money in tution than than a lot of universities. Giving athletes stipends is not dumb when factoring the time they spend traveling and practicing in their sports far exceeds what academic scholarship students do. I had the ability to have a work study job at the SU COL, work at Hill TV and do all my classwork while athletes don't have that same time and don't receive money for all the revenue they draw for the school.
If the NCAA let athletes control their own IP rights while in college they wouldn't have to pay them and the athletes could make money off themselves and the money earned by the athlete exceeded the cost of tutton then make them pay the school back the cost of a scholarship. Texas A&M shouldn't profit from selling number 2 football jerseys when Johnny Manziel gets none of that money or Kansas Basketball already selling number 22 basketball jerseys which is the number of Andrew Wiggins. Its a joke either give them all two-three thousand dollars stipends a semester or let them control their IP rights and profit from their own images, merchandize that is being sold by the university.

 

[Madbiker]

Under the BCS system and continuing under the new playoff system, some percentage of the revenue is shared by all the D1 FBS conferences. It seems to me what the power 5 conferences are doing is trying to stop that by creating a new superdivision and instead reallocate that money to player pay or stipends. The schools in the power 5 aren't going to accept making less money so this is a way to stay whole AFTER the added expense of paying athletes. Some people seem to think that only men's football and basketball players are going to be paid. That is categorically wrong. All athletes will need to be treated the same. The women's field hockey team is going to have to be paid the same as the football players. So this is going to take a lot of coin.

 

[javadoc]

Under the BCS system and continuing under the new playoff system, some percentage of the revenue is shared by all the D1 FBS conferences. It seems to me what the power 5 conferences are doing is trying to stop that by creating a new superdivision and instead reallocate that money to player pay or stipends. The schools in the power 5 aren't going to accept making less money so this is a way to stay whole AFTER the added expense of paying athletes. Some people seem to think that only men's football and basketball players are going to be paid. That is categorically wrong. All athletes will need to be treated the same. The women's field hockey team is going to have to be paid the same as the football players. So this is going to take a lot of coin.

How does title ix affect this? I forget what the criteria are. Is it raw total outlays? Number of athletes?

 

[44PRIDE]

And as for Notre Dame being a leach...how about this: does not receive any of the College Playoff monies and does not even receive its 1/15 share of bowl monies if it qualifies for the 6 team playoff--so Notre Dame isn't taking from the overall pot during its most successful seasons...but is contributing when it doesnt make the 6 team playoff but goes to another bowl...it shares in step with points above.

If an ACC team makes it to the playoff, ND doesn't get a cut of that payout

If ND makes it to the playoff, the ACC doesn't get a cut of that payout

If ND doesn't make playoffs, it gets a share of the ACC bowl payout (w/o playoff money).

If ND goes to a non-playoff bowl, they share payout with the ACC members

Is this right?

 

[IthacaMatt]

I understand what your saying a Syracuse scholarship is worth more money than Rutgers scholarship or Pittsburgh scholarship, but that is because Syracuse chooses in the free market to charge more money in tution than than a lot of universities. .

I think it's a bad idea to compare the value of degrees in this manner. First, cost doesn't equal value. And second, while maybe Syracuse ranks a few spots higher academically than Rutgers or Pitt in some areas, it is also a few spots lower in others. Another factor in the value of a degree is the employment market impact.

Rutgers grads have the opportunity to work in the metro NYC area or Metro Philly area, both of which offer much better job markets than Upstate NY, and in both locations a Rutgers degree is seen as the equal (or better) of an SU degree, if it's not in the certain hallowed few schools like Maxwell, Newhouse, etc.

Pitt, of course, is a fine school with an outstanding medical school (which Syracuse lacks) and an outstanding engineering school. Pittsburgh, too, offers a better economic climate for its grads than SU does.

 

[arbitragegls]

If an ACC team makes it to the playoff, ND doesn't get a cut of that payout

If ND makes it to the playoff, the ACC doesn't get a cut of that payout

If ND doesn't make playoffs, it gets a share of the ACC bowl payout (w/o playoff money).

If ND goes to a non-playoff bowl, they share payout with the ACC members

Is this right?

If I follow what you are saying the answer is YES, you are correct. For example if Notre Dame goes to Belk bowl, the skim off revenue as discussed above goes to Notre Dame and then all other teams equally share; if FSU goes to the semis or playoff games or OB, Notre Dame does not share...if Syracuse goes to Belk bowl it gets the skim and than shares with all teams including Notre Dame as long as Notre Dame is not in the 6 team playoff.

 

[shantydaze]

I am not in favor of awarding teams for success as it creates a "have" and "have not" system. I doubt any school is actively trying to be mediocre. I understand the argument that some schools are pouring more money into resources to be successful than others, but how is taking money away from the unsuccessful school going to change this? Also, the state schools (should) have a fundraising advantage over the smaller private schools do the larger number of alumni.

That being said, schools should not lose money by going to bowls. I know the B1G also helps fund the school's traveling expenses before the remaining revenue is equally allocated by the conferences. This makes sense.

I would have less of a problem if the "significant" bonus being paid to bowl bound teams was based on the number of tickets the school sells from its allotment. If the conference is responsible for the ticket allotment, a team that has a crappy draw should not be able to get the bonus and then have the equal revenue further reduced by the value of the unused ticket. Also, this may cause fans of these teams to travel to the bowl games and the more schools in the conference with a traveling fanbase, the better bowls the conference will get.

As for paying athletes, I surprised the SEC and Texas teams would agree as they have been doing under the table to get an advantage over the other teams

I always get a little frustrated when people question the value of a scholarship. Even with a scholarship, my stint at SU left me with a six figure loan debt upon graduation. For the last 13 years, I have been paying my monthly educational mortgage and will continue to do so for another seven years.

Scholarship student athletes should receive cost of attendance scholarships, however, similar to a National Merit Scholarship. The cost of attendance should be based on the financial aid figure, which should help ensure the schools do not manipulate the figures. This would give the kids enough to live on and still leave enough for the schools to fund non-revenue sports.

 

[WickedOrange]

Do players get more money for being out of state at a public schools?
Do kids choose schools based on past merchandising levels?

I think anything other than a equal stipend will have unintended consequences.

I dislike the idea of a stipend too.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I thought this thread was going to be about R Kelly.

 

[44PRIDE]

I thought this thread was going to be about R Kelly.

It kinda is...isn't it? Pay for play?