Day Ten Fall Camp: Thurs., August 10, 2017

[PhatOrange]

Who’s left standing right now:

SO Coleman 6-3 240

FR Jonathon 6-3 245

FR Morton 6-4 220

JUCO Berry 6-4 232

Walkon Justin Ellis 6-3 240 (this kid is the wildcard. Film looked very good playing for a Georgia powerhouse. Was All-State. No way is he 6-3 but had D1 offers (Bowling Green/Western Michigan/Southern Miss) and chose to walkon at Syracuse. Was also a rvls 3* player.)

If you need size on the edge on obvious running down against power teams you could maybe move Ruff outside

I think you also have to consider moving Valdez up to the line. Keep the 4 backers on the field.

 

[Franz69]

Any inside scoops on how the freshman DEs have looked so far? What are they saying on the pay side?

 

[money3189]

looks like freshman RTB has moved into the #2 hole behind Ishmael

I also notice Sharod Johnson getting his reps from the outside. Aldy been out. He improves the speed out there. 5'10 at split end is a little small but his speed makes up for it. a'la Kevin Johnson

 

[money3189]

Who’s left standing right now:

SO Coleman 6-3 240

FR Jonathon 6-3 245

FR Morton 6-4 220

JUCO Berry 6-4 232

Walkon Justin Ellis 6-3 240 (this kid is the wildcard. Film looked very good playing for a Georgia powerhouse. Was All-State. No way is he 6-3 but had D1 offers (Bowling Green/Western Michigan/Southern Miss) and chose to walkon at Syracuse. Was also a rvls 3* player.)

If you need size on the edge on obvious running down against power teams you could maybe move Ruff outside

I think you also have to consider moving Valdez up to the line. Keep the 4 backers on the field.

Tim Walton is a DE now

 

[RF2044]

Who’s left standing right now:

SO Coleman 6-3 240

FR Jonathon 6-3 245

FR Morton 6-4 220

JUCO Berry 6-4 232

Walkon Justin Ellis 6-3 240 (this kid is the wildcard. Film looked very good playing for a Georgia powerhouse. Was All-State. No way is he 6-3 but had D1 offers (Bowling Green/Western Michigan/Southern Miss) and chose to walkon at Syracuse. Was also a rvls 3* player.)

If you need size on the edge on obvious running down against power teams you could maybe move Ruff outside

I think you also have to consider moving Valdez up to the line. Keep the 4 backers on the field.

Also need to add Tim Walton -- who moved to a hybrid DE / OLB role in the spring. And the scuttlebutt on Ellis is that he's probably not 6-3, but closer to 6-0, but that the size is legit.

 

[007]

Who’s left standing right now:

SO Coleman 6-3 240

FR Jonathon 6-3 245

FR Morton 6-4 220

JUCO Berry 6-4 232

Walkon Justin Ellis 6-3 240 (this kid is the wildcard. Film looked very good playing for a Georgia powerhouse. Was All-State. No way is he 6-3 but had D1 offers (Bowling Green/Western Michigan/Southern Miss) and chose to walkon at Syracuse. Was also a rvls 3* player.)

If you need size on the edge on obvious running down against power teams you could maybe move Ruff outside

I think you also have to consider moving Valdez up to the line. Keep the 4 backers on the field.

Good call on Justin Ellis, PhatOrange. I thought the same thing when I watched his tape.

 

[money3189]

Any inside scoops on how the freshman DEs have looked so far? What are they saying on the pay side?

Have no idea, but when I saw Kingsley HS film. I immediately thought he had the body to play as a freshman. Im not sure how it will materialize. Lets see what happens

 

[RF2044]

If I had to guess, I'd expect Coleman / Berry to start. Hopefully, Black's injury isn't that significant, and he'll get back into the mix soon.

Walton will be the fourth guy, with Jonathan / Ellis providing platoon depth. Slayton could see some snaps there, just to get the best players on the field, but that is contingent upon how a couple of things go at DT. Can't afford any more injuries -- that's for sure.

And hopefully Pickard gets back in a month or so to provide some reinforcements.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Who’s left standing right now:

SO Coleman 6-3 240

FR Jonathon 6-3 245

FR Morton 6-4 220

JUCO Berry 6-4 232

Walkon Justin Ellis 6-3 240 (this kid is the wildcard. Film looked very good playing for a Georgia powerhouse. Was All-State. No way is he 6-3 but had D1 offers (Bowling Green/Western Michigan/Southern Miss) and chose to walkon at Syracuse. Was also a rvls 3* player.)

If you need size on the edge on obvious running down against power teams you could maybe move Ruff outside

I think you also have to consider moving Valdez up to the line. Keep the 4 backers on the field.

You wonder if Nelson could have played a big role here if he hadn't decided to re-enact Oceans 11 on campus. That one might sting for a while especially with another former DE playing for an SEC team this year who also got kicked out. That said your missing Tim Walton who I believe has been moved to DE. That would give us 5 guys with little in the way of experience outside of maybe Berry and to a lesser extent Coleman.

Agree with you about Ellis, its not ideal but he clearly is a D-1 player who may be able to play a role rotating in. Obviously the key guy now is Berry, he's going to need to play well and play a lot especially if Black or Pickard are going to be out for any sort of extended period.

The good news is while both are out with knee braces it doesn't appear were looking at a season ending type of injury. Were still 3 weeks away from the first game and if you believe SU can manage the first game without either player (if we can't we have bigger problems) then they have a month to get back healthy and ready to play for week 2.

Just have to hope both injuries are minor at this point.

 

[Chip]

You don't scrap the defensive system you've had installed for 18 months three weeks before the season.

Agree. You also shouldn't do this one week before you face the triple option.

Fool me once (please just once).

 

[PhatOrange]

You wonder if Nelson could have played a big role here if he hadn't decided to re-enact Oceans 11 on campus. That one might sting for a while especially with another former DE playing for an SEC team this year who also got kicked out. That said your missing Tim Walton who I believe has been moved to DE. That would give us 5 guys with little in the way of experience outside of maybe Berry and to a lesser extent Coleman.

Agree with you about Ellis, its not ideal but he clearly is a D-1 player who may be able to play a role rotating in.

The thing I liked about Ellis was his speed. If I recall correctly he had a super quick first step. Very explosive on the film. I don't care much about his height (Freeney) if that explosiveness is legit.

 

[RF2044]

You wonder if Nelson could have played a big role here if he hadn't decided to re-enact Oceans 11 on campus. That one might sting for a while especially with another former DE playing for an SEC team this year who also got kicked out. That said your missing Tim Walton who I believe has been moved to DE. That would give us 5 guys with little in the way of experience outside of maybe Berry and to a lesser extent Coleman.

Agree with you about Ellis, its not ideal but he clearly is a D-1 player who may be able to play a role rotating in. Obviously the key guy now is Berry, he's going to need to play well and play a lot especially if Black or Pickard are going to be out for any sort of extended period.

The good news is while both are out with knee braces it doesn't appear were looking at a season ending type of injury. Were still 3 weeks away from the first game and if you believe SU can manage the first game without either player (if we can't we have bigger problems) then they have a month to get back healthy and ready to play for week 2.

Just have to hope both injuries are minor at this point.

Nice summary. Losing Newton / Shephard definitely hurts -- Qaddir in particular would be an experienced upperclassman with lots of game experience under his belt, which would really help stabilize that position. And having JUCO transfer Allen medically DQ'd is a big blow to this unit, as well.

It all comes down to how severe the injuries are for Pickard / Black. If they can get back on or around when games start, then the pieces might not be as bad as some think. But if we lose those two or if they are significantly impaired for a large portion of the season, depth at DE is fukakte.

 

[Finwad32]

Fun fact, Doug Marone completely scrapped his offense literally days before the start of the 2012 season. He moved to the more wide Open attack you saw Hackett implement within a week of opening kick off.

PS - I would never advocate this type of change.

 

[JeremyCuse]

The thing I liked about Ellis was his speed. If I recall correctly he had a super quick first step. Very explosive on the film. I don't care much about his height (Freeney) if that explosiveness is legit.

Agreed, if the speed is there then the smaller size is fine. SU is not going to be able to get the protypical size for every position so getting guys a bit under the radar due to their size is something we have done in the past and need to keep doing. Ellis's numbers last year for playing in Georgia were pretty impressive as he had 19 sacks a senior. Probably would have liked to have red-shirted him but if he can hold his own at this level as a Frosh you have to play him. Either way he could be a huge get for the future with the issues at the position and the fact that we have no DE's recruited currently for next year.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Fun fact, Doug Marone completely scrapped his offense literally days before the start of the 2012 season. He moved to the more wide Open attack you saw Hackett implement within a week of opening kick off.

PS - I would never advocate this type of change.

Didn't scrap the offense. Just sped it up.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Nice summary. Losing Newton / Shephard definitely hurts -- Qaddir in particular would be an experienced upperclassman with lots of game experience under his belt, which would really help stabilize that position. And having JUCO transfer Allen medically DQ'd is a big blow to this unit, as well.

It all comes down to how severe the injuries are for Pickard / Black. If they can get back on or around when games start, then the pieces might not be as bad as some think. But if we lose those two or if they are significantly impaired for a large portion of the season, depth at DE is fukakte.

Agree on Qadir, man he would be a nice piece to have. Teams have players get kicked off the team and other crap all the time but SU has really taken a beating at DE the last couple of years. Babers is going to need to hit the JUCO ranks next year for a couple more DE's and bring in probably another 2 frosh as well just to help with depth. Good news is the oldest DE we have is a red-shirt soph so there is a lot of young depth. Berry only being a Sophmore will be a big help.

At this point you wonder if the staff could move a guy like Fagan to DE for the year if they planned to red-shirt him anyway and see if they catch lightning in a bottle. Even a guy like Shy Cullen despite his weight might be someone to consider.

Hopefully one of Black or Pickard is back to playing in the next week or so, even getting one of them back would be huge.

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

Fagan is under 200 I don't see a fit there.

 

[PhatOrange]

Agree on Qadir, man he would be a nice piece to have. Teams have players get kicked off the team and other crap all the time but SU has really taken a beating at DE the last couple of years. Babers is going to need to hit the JUCO ranks next year for a couple more DE's and bring in probably another 2 frosh as well just to help with depth. Good news is the oldest DE we have is a red-shirt soph so there is a lot of young depth. Berry only being a Sophmore will be a big help.

At this point you wonder if the staff could move a guy like Fagan to DE for the year if they planned to red-shirt him anyway and see if they catch lightning in a bottle. Even a guy like Shy Cullen despite his weight might be someone to consider.

Hopefully one of Black or Pickard is back to playing in the next week or so, even getting one of them back would be huge.

shoot man we also lost Easley to in that incident. (though as it turns out he was a bad egg period). But what is it with Defensive Ends and stealing sht.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Fagan is under 200 I don't see a fit there.

Valdez is probably the only guy with the measurables at this point, unfortunately were in a situation where sometimes you have to move someone even if they don't fit the position as well as you would like size/weight wise.

 

[Trueblue25]

Wasnt Ruff a highly regarded DE prospect? Why did he move? I always thought he was undersized for a DT

 

[PhatOrange]

 

[money3189]

Fun fact, Doug Marone completely scrapped his offense literally days before the start of the 2012 season. He moved to the more wide Open attack you saw Hackett implement within a week of opening kick off.

PS - I would never advocate this type of change.

I was like oh boy, is this going to work? and it sure did. Its was a great move. I give the staff a lot of credit for that. Takes some balls to do that. It was a little easier for them because the scheme was within the framework of what they were doing. They moved primarily to gun formation ,sped up the tempo and ran basic inside/outside zone schemes. They had to convert terminology and play calling to signals and what not.

 

[texascpa]

Damn, he plays angry.

 

[RF2044]

Agree on Qadir, man he would be a nice piece to have. Teams have players get kicked off the team and other crap all the time but SU has really taken a beating at DE the last couple of years. Babers is going to need to hit the JUCO ranks next year for a couple more DE's and bring in probably another 2 frosh as well just to help with depth. Good news is the oldest DE we have is a red-shirt soph so there is a lot of young depth. Berry only being a Sophmore will be a big help.

At this point you wonder if the staff could move a guy like Fagan to DE for the year if they planned to red-shirt him anyway and see if they catch lightning in a bottle. Even a guy like Shy Cullen despite his weight might be someone to consider.

Hopefully one of Black or Pickard is back to playing in the next week or so, even getting one of them back would be huge.

I don't think that either Fagan / Trotter [true frosh LBs] would be candidates, as both are around 200 pounds.

RSoph LBs Cullen [212 pounds] and Troy Henderson [216 pounds] are interesting candidates, as neither one seems to be able to get on the field outside of special teams. Cullen is such a good athlete -- could he find a niche as a situational pass rusher who just uses his speed / athleticism to try to get upfield and make disruptive plays in the backfield despite being undersized? Might be a path to increased PT. Interesting thought.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Wasnt Ruff a highly regarded DE prospect? Why did he move? I always thought he was undersized for a DT

He's grown into the DT position size/weight wise. I don't think he has the speed at this point to move back to DE after bulking up.