DB Ja'Had Carter / Portal from Ohio State to NC State

[PhatOrange]

Here are some objective measures that can be used to measure the contributions of different football players.

I like Duce and Ja'Had. Both good players. But they were not anywhere near as impactful as many others on the field last season. Heck, Garrett Williams made more plays in 6 and a half games than Duce did playing 12.

Looked to me as though Duce was hurt again most of last season and was not able to run well. He got picked on a lot. 1 pass breakup for a whole season is...not great. His run support was still good but he got beat too often.

Ja'Had has never put up the numbers you would like from a safety, and I think struggled learning his responsibilities but to his credit, I think he was finally getting things together the second half of the season.

Syracuse Defensive Statistics 2022​

Individual Defensive Statistics

#	PLAYER	GP	SOLO	ASST	TOT	TFL-YDS	SACKS-YDS	INT	BU	QBH	FR	FF	KICK	SAF
2	Wax, Marlowe	13	53	38	91.0	10.5-48	4.5-31	0	2	7	2	2	1	0
3	Jones, Mikel	11	41	43	84.0	7.0-40	4.0-27	0	0	5	1	1	0	0
23	Barron, Justin	13	40	25	65.0	5.0-13	1.0-7	0	1	2	1	0	0	0
5	Clark, Alijah	12	31	24	55.0	2.5-3	0-0	0	2	0	0	0	0	0
45	Darton, Kevon	13	28	26	54.0	4.0-12	0-0	0	0	3	0	0	0	0
20	Johnson, Isaiah	13	36	17	53.0	0-0	0-0	1	1	0	0	0	0	0
93	Okechukwu, Caleb	13	27	21	48.0	10.0-46	7.0-40	1	0	5	0	2	0	0
15	McDonald, Derek	9	22	21	43.0	2.0-10	1.0-6	1	2	3	0	1	0	0
0	Chestnut, Duce	12	27	13	40.0	1.5-2	0-0	1	1	0	0	0	0	0
12	Sparrow, Anwar	11	25	15	40.0	5.5-18	1.5-9	0	2	1	1	2	0	0
14	Simmons Jr., Jason	12	22	16	38.0	1.5-3	0-0	1	7	1	0	0	0	0
1	Carter, Ja'Had	12	20	16	36.0	0.5-1	0-0	3	3	0	1	0	0	0
8	Williams, Garrett	7	25	11	36.0	1.5-4	1.0-2	2	3	0

2022 Football Cumulative Statistics - Syracuse University Athletics

The official 2022 Football cumulative statistics for the Syracuse University Orange

cuse.com

Simmons had 7 pass breakups ?

 

[SmilinBob]

Simmons had 7 pass breakups ?

I'm curious what the passes throw/breakup ratio's are?

 

[Willy75]

We have a huge NIL problem if kids that love SU feel they have no choice but to leave.

More like college revenue sports have a problem.

 

[SUDadx2]

Here are some objective measures that can be used to measure the contributions of different football players.

I like Duce and Ja'Had. Both good players. But they were not anywhere near as impactful as many others on the field last season. Heck, Garrett Williams made more plays in 6 and a half games than Duce did playing 12.

Looked to me as though Duce was hurt again most of last season and was not able to run well. He got picked on a lot. 1 pass breakup for a whole season is...not great. His run support was still good but he got beat too often.

Ja'Had has never put up the numbers you would like from a safety, and I think struggled learning his responsibilities but to his credit, I think he was finally getting things together the second half of the season.

Syracuse Defensive Statistics 2022​

Individual Defensive Statistics

#	PLAYER	GP	SOLO	ASST	TOT	TFL-YDS	SACKS-YDS	INT	BU	QBH	FR	FF	KICK	SAF
2	Wax, Marlowe	13	53	38	91.0	10.5-48	4.5-31	0	2	7	2	2	1	0
3	Jones, Mikel	11	41	43	84.0	7.0-40	4.0-27	0	0	5	1	1	0	0
23	Barron, Justin	13	40	25	65.0	5.0-13	1.0-7	0	1	2	1	0	0	0
5	Clark, Alijah	12	31	24	55.0	2.5-3	0-0	0	2	0	0	0	0	0
45	Darton, Kevon	13	28	26	54.0	4.0-12	0-0	0	0	3	0	0	0	0
20	Johnson, Isaiah	13	36	17	53.0	0-0	0-0	1	1	0	0	0	0	0
93	Okechukwu, Caleb	13	27	21	48.0	10.0-46	7.0-40	1	0	5	0	2	0	0
15	McDonald, Derek	9	22	21	43.0	2.0-10	1.0-6	1	2	3	0	1	0	0
0	Chestnut, Duce	12	27	13	40.0	1.5-2	0-0	1	1	0	0	0	0	0
12	Sparrow, Anwar	11	25	15	40.0	5.5-18	1.5-9	0	2	1	1	2	0	0
14	Simmons Jr., Jason	12	22	16	38.0	1.5-3	0-0	1	7	1	0	0	0	0
1	Carter, Ja'Had	12	20	16	36.0	0.5-1	0-0	3	3	0	1	0	0	0
8	Williams, Garrett	7	25	11	36.0	1.5-4	1.0-2	2	3	0

2022 Football Cumulative Statistics - Syracuse University Athletics

The official 2022 Football cumulative statistics for the Syracuse University Orange

cuse.com

I hope you’re not trying to convince anyone that our defense is going to be better without Chestnut and Carter than it would be with Chestnut and Carter because they didn’t have the stats other players had?

Chestnut > Johnson, Wilson, Peterson, Delaine, Bellamy.

Carter > Simmons, Clark, Barron, Gould, Oliver, Greenwood, Falk, Perry.

IMO, we would be better with Chestnut and Carter than we are right now without them.


Both CB and S are one player short of being three deep with scholarship players.

How many CB or S did we sign in the 2023 class? ZERO.

IMO we need one experienced CB who can contribute now while the younger guys on the roster mature and get better. We also need one younger S who can provide depth while he matures and develops.

 

[money3189]

I hope you’re not trying to convince anyone that our defense is going to be better without Chestnut and Carter than it would be with Chestnut and Carter because they didn’t have the stats other players had?

Chestnut > Johnson, Wilson, Peterson, Delaine, Bellamy.

Carter > Simmons, Clark, Barron, Gould, Oliver, Greenwood, Falk, Perry.

IMO, we would be better with Chestnut and Carter than we are right now without them.


Both CB and S are one player short of being three deep with scholarship players.

How many CB or S did we sign in the 2023 class? ZERO.

IMO we need one experienced CB who can contribute now while the younger guys on the roster mature and get better. We also need one younger S who can provide depth while he matures and develops.

I don’t think he was saying that at all. He was pointing out that other players were valuable too.

 

[TexanMark]

Time for the Fine Mess to do some Fine Tampering and get him back home.

Hey buddy you stay here...we'll let your parents tailgate with us for free and build you a post game doggy bag.

 

[sutomcat]

I hope you’re not trying to convince anyone that our defense is going to be better without Chestnut and Carter than it would be with Chestnut and Carter because they didn’t have the stats other players had?

Chestnut > Johnson, Wilson, Peterson, Delaine, Bellamy.

Carter > Simmons, Clark, Barron, Gould, Oliver, Greenwood, Falk, Perry.

IMO, we would be better with Chestnut and Carter than we are right now without them.


Both CB and S are one player short of being three deep with scholarship players.

How many CB or S did we sign in the 2023 class? ZERO.

IMO we need one experienced CB who can contribute now while the younger guys on the roster mature and get better. We also need one younger S who can provide depth while he matures and develops.

No, I didn't say that. I was taking issue with the claim that Chestnut and Carter were our two best defensive players.

IMHO, both would certainly have started this season had they stayed. And been very good players.

 

[721Comstock]

I hope you’re not trying to convince anyone that our defense is going to be better without Chestnut and Carter than it would be with Chestnut and Carter because they didn’t have the stats other players had?

Chestnut > Johnson, Wilson, Peterson, Delaine, Bellamy.

Carter > Simmons, Clark, Barron, Gould, Oliver, Greenwood, Falk, Perry.

IMO, we would be better with Chestnut and Carter than we are right now without them.


Both CB and S are one player short of being three deep with scholarship players.

How many CB or S did we sign in the 2023 class? ZERO.

IMO we need one experienced CB who can contribute now while the younger guys on the roster mature and get better. We also need one younger S who can provide depth while he matures and develops.

All that said - we were only getting 1 more year, max, from Duce and Ja'Had.
We absolutely would be better - this year - if we had them back.

Instead, we now brought in 2 guys who were rated higher coming outta HS, who we will (likely) have for at least 2 years.

So, looking at the picture longer-term, it's not horrible that those guys left and got replaced.

 

[SUDadx2]

No, I didn't say that. I was taking issue with the claim that Chestnut and Carter were our two best defensive players.

IMHO, both would certainly have started this season had they stayed. And been very good players.

I agree with this. They were not our two best defensive players.

Their absence leaves a few holes. Currently we are in a better position to fill in behind Carter than we are for filling behind Chestnut. CB might currently be our weakest position on defense.

 

[sutomcat]

I agree with this. They were not our two best defensive players.

Their absence leaves a few holes. Currently we are in a better position to fill in behind Carter than we are for filling behind Chestnut. CB might currently be our weakest position on defense.

One of the things I liked about Tony White was that he played a lot of players on defense. With him in charge, it has been rare that a player has left and there wasn't a player or two around who also has played some at the departed player's position.

Both Ja'Had and Chestnut were banged up a fair amount and it was not unusual for either to have to leave games for a while when they got patched up. Both player really hard and sacrificed their bodies to make plays.

Anyway, I agree, we have a number of athletes who I think are capable of filling in for Ja'Had at his safety position. I don't think we will see a big drop off there.

It is harder at CB. We lost Garrett and Duce. Johnson and Wilson got a lot of playing time last year, especially Johnson and that will help. I thought Johnson looked like the most improved player on defense in the spring game. Hard to make judgements from a scrimmage but I was impressed by him. Thought Wilson got abused some, remain worried about whether he is big enough and tough enough to cover ACC WRs.

That said, liked what I saw from Bellamy. He again is a guy without a great build and I worry about that but he was playing tough and physical and it looked like he has some of the Duce junk dog attitude in him.

And Peterson looked good to me as well. Delaine didn't play, and I really haven't seen him play but I think there is reason to think he is going to be good. Might be another guy who needs a year in the weight room before he will be ready.

 

[GoSU96]

Carter was our biggest playmaker on D but all the guys you mentioned are legitimate playmakers.

Here are some objective measures that can be used to measure the contributions of different football players.

I like Duce and Ja'Had. Both good players. But they were not anywhere near as impactful as many others on the field last season. Heck, Garrett Williams made more plays in 6 and a half games than Duce did playing 12.

Looked to me as though Duce was hurt again most of last season and was not able to run well. He got picked on a lot. 1 pass breakup for a whole season is...not great. His run support was still good but he got beat too often.

Ja'Had has never put up the numbers you would like from a safety, and I think struggled learning his responsibilities but to his credit, I think he was finally getting things together the second half of the season.

Syracuse Defensive Statistics 2022​

Individual Defensive Statistics

#	PLAYER	GP	SOLO	ASST	TOT	TFL-YDS	SACKS-YDS	INT	BU	QBH	FR	FF	KICK	SAF
2	Wax, Marlowe	13	53	38	91.0	10.5-48	4.5-31	0	2	7	2	2	1	0
3	Jones, Mikel	11	41	43	84.0	7.0-40	4.0-27	0	0	5	1	1	0	0
23	Barron, Justin	13	40	25	65.0	5.0-13	1.0-7	0	1	2	1	0	0	0
5	Clark, Alijah	12	31	24	55.0	2.5-3	0-0	0	2	0	0	0	0	0
45	Darton, Kevon	13	28	26	54.0	4.0-12	0-0	0	0	3	0	0	0	0
20	Johnson, Isaiah	13	36	17	53.0	0-0	0-0	1	1	0	0	0	0	0
93	Okechukwu, Caleb	13	27	21	48.0	10.0-46	7.0-40	1	0	5	0	2	0	0
15	McDonald, Derek	9	22	21	43.0	2.0-10	1.0-6	1	2	3	0	1	0	0
0	Chestnut, Duce	12	27	13	40.0	1.5-2	0-0	1	1	0	0	0	0	0
12	Sparrow, Anwar	11	25	15	40.0	5.5-18	1.5-9	0	2	1	1	2	0	0
14	Simmons Jr., Jason	12	22	16	38.0	1.5-3	0-0	1	7	1	0	0	0	0
1	Carter, Ja'Had	12	20	16	36.0	0.5-1	0-0	3	3	0	1	0	0	0
8	Williams, Garrett	7	25	11	36.0	1.5-4	1.0-2	2	3	0

2022 Football Cumulative Statistics - Syracuse University Athletics

The official 2022 Football cumulative statistics for the Syracuse University Orange

cuse.com

Yep

 

[anomander]

Good lord. When my wife thinks I’m negative I’m just going to save your last 3-4 posts. A whole bunch of factory schools in FB and BB have lost important players this year b/c of NIL. Does Alabama and Michigan not have enough $ to compete with Kansas, should their fans be scared and depressed?

Bama and Michigan may lose transfers but they bring back transfers of the same level. Big difference

 

[anomander]

One of the things I liked about Tony White was that he played a lot of players on defense. With him in charge, it has been rare that a player has left and there wasn't a player or two around who also has played some at the departed player's position.

Both Ja'Had and Chestnut were banged up a fair amount and it was not unusual for either to have to leave games for a while when they got patched up. Both player really hard and sacrificed their bodies to make plays.

Anyway, I agree, we have a number of athletes who I think are capable of filling in for Ja'Had at his safety position. I don't think we will see a big drop off there.

It is harder at CB. We lost Garrett and Duce. Johnson and Wilson got a lot of playing time last year, especially Johnson and that will help. I thought Johnson looked like the most improved player on defense in the spring game. Hard to make judgements from a scrimmage but I was impressed by him. Thought Wilson got abused some, remain worried about whether he is big enough and tough enough to cover ACC WRs.

That said, liked what I saw from Bellamy. He again is a guy without a great build and I worry about that but he was playing tough and physical and it looked like he has some of the Duce junk dog attitude in him.

And Peterson looked good to me as well. Delaine didn't play, and I really haven't seen him play but I think there is reason to think he is going to be good. Might be another guy who needs a year in the weight room before he will be ready.

I would argue Carter was one of the most improved players in the entire ACC and he was a playmaker which teams need. I would also say Carter was better than Duce last year and probably our best defender when available. Best part is he raised his play against the best in the conference. Anyone have any doubts re-watch his Clemson game. We don’t have many guys on the team that can match talent/physical abilities man to man and he was one of them. Not directed at you but all this no big deal thing because he left is ridiculous. Just say it we lost our biggest playmaker on defense. He was just as good, if not better, at his position, as Wax/Jones were at theirs.

 

[tep624]

I would argue Carter was one of the most improved players in the entire ACC and he was a playmaker which teams need. I would also say Carter was better than Duce last year and probably our best defender when available. Best part is he raised his play against the best in the conference. Anyone have any doubts re-watch his Clemson game. We don’t have many guys on the team that can match talent/physical abilities man to man and he was one of them. Not directed at you but all this no big deal thing because he left is ridiculous. Just say it we lost our biggest playmaker on defense. He was just as good, if not better, at his position, as Wax/Jones were at theirs.

If Carter was coming back he’d be being talked up about being arguably our best defender. Now that he left he’d be 5th or 6th best. What a joke.

 

[rrlbees]

FWIW, according to PFF our top 10 defenders were ranked as such.

Wax
Jones
Chestnut
Sparrow
J. Simmons
Johnson
Williams
Barron
Carter
Linton

 

[qdawgg]

Bama and Michigan may lose transfers but they bring back transfers of the same level. Big difference

We also did a decent job of bringing in two new players. Not a total loss that’s being projected.

My post is specifically to the idea we have no future.

 

[sutomcat]

FWIW, according to PFF our top 10 defenders were ranked as such.

Wax
Jones
Chestnut
Sparrow
J. Simmons
Johnson
Williams
Barron
Carter
Linton

Interesting.

I thought Garrett, when he was playing, was our best defender. By a large margin. Thought he was having an All American type season. Really good pass defender and fantastic with run support. He was making a crazy number of tackles per game for a CB.
Jones would be my number 2. Warrior. I think I would put Wax number 3. Those guys made a lot of big plays.

Thought Carter and Barron improved a lot over the course of the year. Thought they were very close and not too far below Jones and Wax.

I would put Duce just below these guys. He had a leg problem, was it a bad hamstring? Not sure. But he never had great speed and the leg problem made things worse. He was a step behind a lot on pass coverage and got beat quite a bit. Was very good with run support, as always. It seemed like he had to come out of games a lot. Would get into a big collision and have to sit out a series. Did not play up to his potential dealing with injuries.

Simmons is another guy who got better but when the other team made a big completion at a key moment, it seemed like Simmons was beat a lot. I would rate him lower than PFF.

I think Darton and Okechukwu should be on this list. Those guys had good years. Our defense asks them to tie up OL and the metrics PFF is using might be overstating tackles and overrating LBs some.

That said, I generally watch the games live. Period. Don't spend time reviewing the film. It is very possible I am missing a lot.

 

[rrlbees]

Interesting.

I thought Garrett, when he was playing, was our best defender. By a large margin. Thought he was having an All American type season. Really good pass defender and fantastic with run support. He was making a crazy number of tackles per game for a CB.
Jones would be my number 2. Warrior. I think I would put Wax number 3. Those guys made a lot of big plays.

Thought Carter and Barron improved a lot over the course of the year. Thought they were very close and not too far below Jones and Wax.

I would put Duce just below these guys. He had a leg problem, was it a bad hamstring? Not sure. But he never had great speed and the leg problem made things worse. He was a step behind a lot on pass coverage and got beat quite a bit. Was very good with run support, as always. It seemed like he had to come out of games a lot. Would get into a big collision and have to sit out a series. Did not play up to his potential dealing with injuries.

Simmons is another guy who got better but when the other team made a big completion at a key moment, it seemed like Simmons was beat a lot. I would rate him lower than PFF.

I think Darton and Okechukwu should be on this list. Those guys had good years. Our defense asks them to tie up OL and the metrics PFF is using might be overstating tackles and overrating LBs some.

That said, I generally watch the games live. Period. Don't spend time reviewing the film. It is very possible I am missing a lot.

Where Williams lagged behind others was run defense.

 

[dollarbill44]

Hey buddy you stay here...we'll let your parents tailgate with us for free and build you a post game doggy bag.

That would be enough for me.

 

[sutomcat]

Where Williams lagged behind others was run defense.

That surprises me.

When they tried to run wide to his side, it seemed like he got penetration and blew up the ball all the time. He might not have always made the tackle but turned it inside or delayed execution so someone else could.

And he made tackles or assisted on plays far from his area all the time.

I would be really surprised if he doesn't end up a long time starter in the NFL.

 

[rrlbees]

That surprises me.

When they tried to run wide to his side, it seemed like he got penetration and blew up the ball all the time. He might not have always made the tackle but turned it inside or delayed execution so someone else could.

And he made tackles or assisted on plays far from his area all the time.

I would be really surprised if he doesn't end up a long time starter in the NFL.

Looking at his grades each game he did pretty or very good most of them except one. I don’t remember anything specific but for the UConn game he got a very bad grade. Very bad. That one game, fair or not, impacted the season grade and he only played 7 so the one game wasn’t absorbed by 12 others. Maybe that game was graded wrongly or a mistake. But I agree with you, he’s gonna have a nice NFL career.

 

[tep624]

Interesting.

I thought Garrett, when he was playing, was our best defender. By a large margin. Thought he was having an All American type season. Really good pass defender and fantastic with run support. He was making a crazy number of tackles per game for a CB.
Jones would be my number 2. Warrior. I think I would put Wax number 3. Those guys made a lot of big plays.

Thought Carter and Barron improved a lot over the course of the year. Thought they were very close and not too far below Jones and Wax.

I would put Duce just below these guys. He had a leg problem, was it a bad hamstring? Not sure. But he never had great speed and the leg problem made things worse. He was a step behind a lot on pass coverage and got beat quite a bit. Was very good with run support, as always. It seemed like he had to come out of games a lot. Would get into a big collision and have to sit out a series. Did not play up to his potential dealing with injuries.

Simmons is another guy who got better but when the other team made a big completion at a key moment, it seemed like Simmons was beat a lot. I would rate him lower than PFF.

I think Darton and Okechukwu should be on this list. Those guys had good years. Our defense asks them to tie up OL and the metrics PFF is using might be overstating tackles and overrating LBs some.

That said, I generally watch the games live. Period. Don't spend time reviewing the film. It is very possible I am missing a lot.

PFF isn’t gospel. I would take Carter over Simmons in a heartbeat. And I’d take Carter over Barron too. I think the NFL will think the same thing.

 

[AAM62]

PFF isn’t gospel. I would take Carter over Simmons in a heartbeat. And I’d take Carter over Barron too. I think the NFL will think the same thing.

You should hear NFL players talk about PFF...

It's a load of horse crap apparently and there's some nefarious activity involving agents inflating ratings of their clients

 

[rrlbees]

You should hear NFL players talk about PFF...

It's a load of horse crap apparently and there's some nefarious activity involving agents inflating ratings of their clients

Why does every NFL team subscribe to it? Nothing is ever gospel and it’s just another data point.

 

[rrlbees]

PFF isn’t gospel. I would take Carter over Simmons in a heartbeat. And I’d take Carter over Barron too. I think the NFL will think the same thing.

I don’t disagree with Carter over Simmons but as to grades it’s many things factored in. Simmons led the team in pass breakups and he also led the team in completion % meaning how many passes were completed vs the number of times he was targeted. So maybe Simmons is better than we think.