Dear american football...

[Scooch]

im sure theres tons of other reasons too. maybe they have the pat summerall and john madden of futbol calling it.

in NYC, you can watch univision with an antenna.

maybe scooch could answer why, but it seems that people like to watch sports off an antenna as opposed to cable.

im just making up #s here, but why do i think that if bama-lsu is on espn it will do a 4, but if its on abc it will do an 8?? plus, cable ratings always come with caveat...'highest on cable' or whatever.

is there that many people in america without cable??

in the big citys i guess i get it, you can get like 15 channels in NYC that way.

out of my league...

Not really, ESPN's coverage of the World Cup is out delivering Univision by a rather healthy margin. And the differential is largest among young males (18-34 year olds) -- which is exactly the demographic Univision should be leading in if all this growth is coming solely from Hispanics, as some here wrongly suggest.

There's only 10-12% of the country that doesn't have "cable" (meaning traditional cable, satellite or telco video services). And tons of research suggests that if you're among that 10-12% you're not at all likely to be a sports fan*.

(*I know that someone is going to say "but I'm a HUGE sports fan and i cut the cable..." -- that's great, I believe you. You're an outlier.)

 

[DeGrozz]

And vice versa.

Have any of the soccer haters really presented any facts? The only things that I have really read have been biased opinions.

 

[TheCusian]

Consider this... Many kids play start playing soccer when they're very young. When they get older, the most talented go play baseball, football, basketball, or hockey. So does that mean the highest level of talent for soccer in the U.S. is 5 year-olds?

It means elite athletes choose sports where they can live in their own country and make tons of money potentially. If MLS or leagues overseas become more popular they will become more viable. Those 5 year olds might grow up and choose soccer. This World Cup is a decent step in that direction, I think.

 

[IthacaMatt]

That's cute Matt how you try to twist it but I think the media and others are trying to make a big deal out of nothing. You can't argue that Hispanics aren't driving the increase because the facts show they are. Bottom line is that in a week soccer will be nothing more than a blip on the radar for white and black america. If you want to argue that show me facts to back it up.

What, you think Mexican people just got TVs for the first time? You said in an earlier post that the growth *wasn't* among white viewers, and I think you're way off on that one. Just look at ESPN's numbers. When you see an even larger number tuned to Univision, that doesn't negate the increases on the other channel, in mostly another demographic.

 

[cuseinchina]

And vice versa.

I'm not so sure. I don't have skin in the game at all, don't really care one way or the other, so I think I am being objective. I am not a big soccer fan outside of my kid playing on travel teams and stuff, but I don't watch Major League Soccer. But I think the trend is pretty clear and the denial of it is some sort of nostalgia or whatever you want to call it.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Have any of the soccer haters really presented any facts? The only things that I have really read have been biased opinions.

I'm truly not a soccer hater but just wanted to provide an alternative view to a somewhat misconception that the World Cup is knocking the ratings out of the park. Go back a page or two and you will see some facts saying that Univision is kicking ESPN's butt in a lot of major cities. The way i see it is that the Hispanic viewing is way up and the White and Black viewing is up somewhat. Some of it is a new interest in the sport and some of it is because of curiosity and a time frame that has been very convenient for the East Coast. Like others have said it might be like the Olympics that people only watch every four years.

 

[MikeSU02]

I think that soccer is, in fact, growing. I think it will continue to do so with the ability to consume the game at highest levels on your phone, tablet, etc.

With that said, and this has always been my argument for/against the level of following it can attain in the US, at least a significant portion of elite US athletes have to be involved. Lukaku is consider a giant on the field and he is 6'3", 220 lbs. Ronaldo is 6'1". Messi is tiny.

If guys like LeBron and Russ Westbrook and Wade and Kobe (in their primes) were all playing soccer, I think you would see a much larger following. You can visually see the potential physical dominance. I'm just choosing basketball, but you can imagine elite athletes from other sports.

This would help trump, and this is just my opinion, Americans' need for sports that are incredibly stats-filled (Pts, Rebounds, Assists, steals, etc). Soccer is an incredibly nuanced game where a viewer has to be able to appreciate a great touch or a great effort on a run. Americans watch games where stats are constantly being thrown at them. Individual, team, etc.

This was the first year where I had a legitimately emotional reaction to the US losing. I was screaming after Wondo missed that goal in stoppage and Dempsey missed that set play in OT. But I'll never forget Tim Howard's performance. You could feel that something incredible was happening.

Just my two cents.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

What, you think Mexican people just got TVs for the first time? You said in an earlier post that the growth *wasn't* among white viewers, and I think you're way off on that one. Just look at ESPN's numbers. When you see an even larger number tuned to Univision, that doesn't negate the increases on the other channel, in mostly another demographic.

When i said growth I meant substantial growth. Of course more white people are watching. Its a curiosity thing and a friendly viewing schedule. Howevet we do know that the Hispanic segment of the population is driving the results.

 

[djcon57]

"But are more white males watching this game than before. Very few over the age of 30."

"Of course more white people are watching."

Make up your mind.

 

[Millhouse]

im sure theres tons of other reasons too. maybe they have the pat summerall and john madden of futbol calling it.

in NYC, you can watch univision with an antenna.

maybe scooch could answer why, but it seems that people like to watch sports off an antenna as opposed to cable.

im just making up #s here, but why do i think that if bama-lsu is on espn it will do a 4, but if its on abc it will do an 8?? plus, cable ratings always come with caveat...'highest on cable' or whatever.

is there that many people in america without cable??

in the big citys i guess i get it, you can get like 15 channels in NYC that way.

out of my league...

i'm sure there's lots of overlap between being a hipster , adopting fulham as your passion in life, and cutting the cord

 

[Scooch]

When i said growth I meant substantial growth. Of course more white people are watching. Its a curiosity thing and a friendly viewing schedule. Howevet we do know that the Hispanic segment of the population is driving the results.

No, that's a *part* of it. We do know that.

 

[Scooch]

I'm truly not a soccer hater but just wanted to provide an alternative view to a somewhat misconception that the World Cup is knocking the ratings out of the park. Go back a page or two and you will see some facts saying that Univision is kicking ESPN's butt in a lot of major cities. The way i see it is that the Hispanic viewing is way up and the White and Black viewing is up somewhat. Some of it is a new interest in the sport and some of it is because of curiosity and a time frame that has been very convenient for the East Coast. Like others have said it might be like the Olympics that people only watch every four years.

No, see, the World Cup *IS* delivering great ratings.

The question is whether or not that performance means anything about the future of soccer, writ large, in the USA.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Yep. Obviously there is a bit of an asterisk, of course, since this was a national (team) EVENT, but still. That many people don't watch a soccer game based solely on patriotism.

Eh. I actually watched the Germany game pretty much out of a sense of patriotic duty.

 

[DeGrozz]

I'm truly not a soccer hater but just wanted to provide an alternative view to a somewhat misconception that the World Cup is knocking the ratings out of the park. Go back a page or two and you will see some facts saying that Univision is kicking ESPN's butt in a lot of major cities. The way i see it is that the Hispanic viewing is way up and the White and Black viewing is up somewhat. Some of it is a new interest in the sport and some of it is because of curiosity and a time frame that has been very convenient for the East Coast. Like others have said it might be like the Olympics that people only watch every four years.

ESPN's numbers are up 44% for games that are being shown in the middle of work days. ( http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-world-cup-ratings-20140703-story.html ) I don't get how that is 'up somewhat' or 'very convenient'. To me, it seems like it's a pretty obvious trend when comparing it against prior World Cups. Obviously Univision's numbers have been huge in the Spanish speaking communities as well.

Again, I'm not seeing any information that the only part of the sport getting popular in the States is the World Cup. TV ratings for the EPL, MLS, and US team are up. Attendance in the domestic league is up. The domestic league is expanding and in vesting in development acadamies which will only strengthen the league. Youth participation is out-performing most sports -- the trends are all there. (Note: Yes, I know people like to joke about the 5 year olds playing soccer and how that doesn't matter, but since the US youth soccer boom in the 80's we've gone from not having made the World Cup in 40 years, to sending a team of amateurs to the World Cup, to having a sustainable domestic league that is pretty good, to advancing to the knock-out rounds in three of the last four world cups)

To me, I don't think this is just the World Cup. Obviously it's not becoming football/the NFL overnight, but to deny that it's not continuing to pick up in this country seems a bit stubborn to me.

 

[Millhouse]

ESPN's numbers are up 44% for games that are being shown in the middle of work days. ( http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/cotown/la-et-ct-world-cup-ratings-20140703-story.html ) I don't get how that is 'up somewhat' or 'very convenient'. To me, it seems like it's a pretty obvious trend when comparing it against prior World Cups. Obviously Univision's numbers have been huge in the Spanish speaking communities as well.

Again, I'm not seeing any information that the only part of the sport getting popular in the States is the World Cup. TV ratings for the EPL, MLS, and US team are up. Attendance in the domestic league is up. The domestic league is expanding and in vesting in development acadamies which will only strengthen the league. Youth participation is out-performing most sports -- the trends are all there. (Note: Yes, I know people like to joke about the 5 year olds playing soccer and how that doesn't matter, but since the US youth soccer boom in the 80's we've gone from not having made the World Cup in 40 years, to sending a team of amateurs to the World Cup, to having a sustainable domestic league that is pretty good, to advancing to the knock-out rounds in three of the last four world cups)

To me, I don't think this is just the World Cup. Obviously it's not becoming football/the NFL overnight, but to deny that it's not continuing to pick up in this country seems a bit stubborn to me.

i don't think MLS expansion will strengthen the league. last thing they need to do. unless they expand to my town, then ok

 

[jekelish]

i don't think MLS expansion will strengthen the league. last thing they need to do. unless they expand to my town, then ok

I actually agree with this. There is talent in MLS but if they keep expanding, rather than just strengthening the existing teams, you're going to have a watered down product. There should be 16 teams right now, and if you aren't good enough to make one of the rosters, tough.

 

[jekelish]

By the way, this Brazil/Germany match is just making me appreciate how well USA did against the Germans to only lose 1-0 and nearly square things late in the game.

For those not watching the game or paying attention to the score, Germany put 5 goals on Brazil in the first 29 minutes. Good lord.

 

[orange79]

By the way, this Brazil/Germany match is just making me appreciate how well USA did against the Germans to only lose 1-0 and nearly square things late in the game.

For those not watching the game or paying attention to the score, Germany put 5 goals on Brazil in the first 29 minutes. Good lord.

 

[DeGrozz]

i don't think MLS expansion will strengthen the league. last thing they need to do. unless they expand to my town, then ok

The last couple rounds have been pretty successful. Like most young professional leagues, I also think though that they are still finding their feet and are still looking to find the right mix of teams for their league. With their expansion, I could also see some teams being shut down, or re-located (here's looking at you Chivas).

As for the dilution of talent -- who knows. I don't think the level of play has suffered from the expansion in the last 7 years, but if we do hit that breaking point, I think it will be pretty noticeable. Right now the league is at a point where you do see a drop in quality, more than the big global leagues, when they go deep into their benches, so expanding too much could hurt, but adding just two teams in NY and Orlando hopefully won't hurt too much. They've signed a lot of talent that is wanted on a global stage, so that should help, at least. In the end, I'm guessing they are banking on the development academies (which I think the casual fan can severely underestimate how much they'll help the league) for producing talent.

 

[billsin01]

Have any of the soccer haters really presented any facts? The only things that I have really read have been biased opinions.

I'm not sure if this is directed at me since I feel we've had a pretty good discourse on the subject and since I think some people are stretching a bit to suggest that the world cup isn't absolutely killing it ratings and popularity-wise.

I don't think there's much doubt soccer is growing, though I'd suggest that sports in general seem to be constantly gaining in the public consciousness. I mean, I literally do presentations to corporate groups in b'more where everyone is wearing a purple ray rice jersey. It's unfathomable. And God forbid your kid is a halfway decent athlete -- you'll spend the next 10 years trying to avoid travelling to lacrosse play days in Pa. where you have to listen to lax dads tell war stories and take the stupid games way too seriously. It's unreal.

I mention that b/c I think soccer growing makes sense given the rapid expanse of accessible media and the general penchant this country has to spend a ton of time watching sports.

But I think there are pretty legitimate obstacles soccer has to clear to put itself squarely in NBA/NHL/MLB/college football/college hoops territory in terms of day-to-day popularity and revenue generation. I don't think that's being a hater or speaking in generalities.

The best soccer in the world tends to be played overseas. That has to change (or at least the perception has to). I'm not being ethnocentric here -- just pointing out that following random EPL teams is fine, but not a recipe for massive, expansive popularity in the US.

Soccer has to maintain it's integrity while adding in an absurd amount of advertising. One thing all the aforementioned leagues do is generate a ton of ad revenue by taking a ton of tv timeouts. Not sure how that works currently, but I'd imagine it will change the current setup of soccer, which is awesome (two running time halves).

And I think they need to be able to capitalize on the appeal of this world cup. I think the soccer fans here tend to take this for granted. I think US soccer can certainly do this, but it's not as simple as watching the fans and cash role in the next 4 years.

I think those are challenges and I'd argue the timeline is longer than 10 years. But it's tough to argue it isn't growing.

 

[Scooch]

i don't think MLS expansion will strengthen the league. last thing they need to do. unless they expand to my town, then ok

Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

The counter to the notion that expansion will dilute talent could be that expanding the league (1) makes MLS more popular in more markets, which (2) makes the league more viable, which (3) provides more revenue to sign better talent. Virtuous cycle and all.

I think MLS probably needs local interest to help its popularity more than having a higher quality 10 teams or whatever. I know I'd care a ton more about MLS if they put a team in CT (which they totally should) than if the LA Galaxy was much better.

 

[jekelish]

Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

The counter to the notion that expansion will dilute talent could be that expanding the league (1) makes MLS more popular in more markets, which (2) makes the league more viable, which (3) provides more revenue to sign better talent. Virtuous cycle and all.

I think MLS probably needs local interest to help its popularity more than having a higher quality 10 teams or whatever. I know I'd care a ton more about MLS if they put a team in CT (which they totally should) than if the LA Galaxy was much better.

I didn't realize how popular soccer is on Connecticut, but UConn gets the second best attendance in the NCAA, and with the proximity to both NY and Boston, I totally agree, an MLS franchise could make sense there.

 

[Scooch]

I didn't realize how popular soccer is on Connecticut, but UConn gets the second best attendance in the NCAA, and with the proximity to both NY and Boston, I totally agree, an MLS franchise could make sense there.

Hartford/New Haven has been a top 5 market for World Cup ratings, and matches that have been played at the Rent have drawn pretty well.

Honestly, a club in CT would draw better than the Revolution in Foxboro.

But it'll never happen, once a league has franchises in NY and Boston, CT is out of play.

 

[DeGrozz]

I'm not sure if this is directed at me since I feel we've had a pretty good discourse on the subject and since I think some people are stretching a bit to suggest that the world cup isn't absolutely killing it ratings and popularity-wise.

I don't think there's much doubt soccer is growing, though I'd suggest that sports in general seem to be constantly gaining in the public consciousness. I mean, I literally do presentations to corporate groups in b'more where everyone is wearing a purple ray rice jersey. It's unfathomable. And God forbid your kid is a halfway decent athlete -- you'll spend the next 10 years trying to avoid travelling to lacrosse play days in Pa. where you have to listen to lax dads tell war stories and take the stupid games way too seriously. It's unreal.

I mention that b/c I think soccer growing makes sense given the rapid expanse of accessible media and the general penchant this country has to spend a ton of time watching sports.

But I think there are pretty legitimate obstacles soccer has to clear to put itself squarely in NBA/NHL/MLB/college football/college hoops territory in terms of day-to-day popularity and revenue generation. I don't think that's being a hater or speaking in generalities.

The best soccer in the world tends to be played overseas. That has to change (or at least the perception has to). I'm not being ethnocentric here -- just pointing out that following random EPL teams is fine, but not a recipe for massive, expansive popularity in the US.

Soccer has to maintain it's integrity while adding in an absurd amount of advertising. One thing all the aforementioned leagues do is generate a ton of ad revenue by taking a ton of tv timeouts. Not sure how that works currently, but I'd imagine it will change the current setup of soccer, which is awesome (two running time halves).

And I think they need to be able to capitalize on the appeal of this world cup. I think the soccer fans here tend to take this for granted. I think US soccer can certainly do this, but it's not as simple as watching the fans and cash role in the next 4 years.

I think those are challenges and I'd argue the timeline is longer than 10 years. But it's tough to argue it isn't growing.

What timelines did I post for 10 years? Seems strange, because I would guess that we're probably generations off from becoming a world soccer power (if everything break right for us). We've made huge progress over the last 20 to 30 years and taken tons of steps, but the last few are always the hardest and it looks like its quite a ways off.

The post you referred to was really made about the way these threads always go. There's a lot of evidence about the growth of the sport in this country, but the anti-soccer crowd seems to completely ignore any facts about the growth of the game and solely base their side of the conversation on uninformed opinions. No offense, but earlier you were posting about the difference of the qualities between the MLS and EPL and how terrible the MLS was without ever watching any of the games. ESPN ratings are up 44% from the last world cup but to marginalize that it's said "viewing is up somewhat" and only because the times are much more "convenient" this year, even though the past two world cups have primarily been played during american office hours.

Another sport that is surprisingly growing a lot in the US is cycling. Tour de France ratings are rebounding, cycling participation across the US is growing quite fast and amateur road races are popping up everywhere. If anyone posted about the growth of the sport, most people who aren't interested in it would think "ok" and move on. When it comes to soccer however, it seems people get really bitter about the sport and try to marginalize the progress it is making in the country, without really being able to back up their claims. That's all I'm referring to. It wasn't a comment directly meant for you though.

Edit: I should also add with the "dear american football" title -- I don't see soccer ever surpassing football in this country. But like I've said earlier with our population and economy, it doesn't need to. Heck, football and the MLS have different seasons that barely overlap and the European games are usually over before college football and NFL kick off during the fall/winter.

 

[djcon57]

Heck, football and the MLS have different seasons that barely overlap and the European games are usually over before college football and NFL kick off during the fall/winter.

Except MLS Cup playoffs are literally in the middle of football season and they run the game on a Sunday. That's why that game usually dies a hard death in ratings. They need to figure out a better schedule. I know they feel like they need to own the summer and I don't LOVE the Mexico spilt deal, but it might be better to end in late May