Dear american football...

[Scooch]

NFL last year averaged 4.75 TD per game.
EPL and world cup averaged 2.77 goals per game.
MLS averages 2.5 gpg.
NHL 5.3 gpg
MLB 8.3 runs per game
College Football 7.5

NFL is lower scoring that people think. I do wish soccer had more scoring

Baseball's got a litany of problems, but it's always funny to read people decry how boring and slow it is, especially when that criticism comes from rabid NFL fans.

MLB has more action time per game than football, and has nearly 2X the scoring per game.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I loved the Brazil fans starting crying when it was 2-0 since in soccer, coming back from a 2-0 deficit is like staring at an insurmountable mountain. Another reason the game sucks.

Ehh a 2-0 deficit is workable with that much time left in the game. However, when you're getting absolute smacked like that you have a good idea it's over. Brazil shouldve had a couple goals right after the half (once Germany took Hummels off) but their keeper made some outstanding saves and that fire was extinguished.

Kind of the same as Florida State dumping 2 TD's on us in the first 5 minutes of a game. Could we come back? Sure. Is it likely barring some minor miracles? Not as much

 

[Millhouse]

Baseball's got a litany of problems, but it's always funny to read people decry how boring and slow it is, especially when that criticism comes from rabid NFL fans.

MLB has more action time per game than football, and has nearly 2X the scoring per game.

baseball is too slow. but football's too slow too. everything's too slow. i would love to see a study of when basketball refs spend the most time reviewing monitors. i'm convinced it's when they're are the most tired. it's just a timeout for them to lean on something like a fat lady leaning on her cart at the grocery store

football has an advantage over baseball where the replays are more interesting. show you something you didn't see. baseball replays between pitches aren't as important

mlb can catch hockey because so many of the hockey goals are such garbage

 

[Scooch]

FYI...

@ESPNResearch
Germany-Brazil delivered 4.1 overnight rating on ESPN, highest ever for a World Cup semifinal on the network

@ESPNResearch
Top rated markets for GER-BRA: NYC (7.5), Hartford (6.4), Wash DC (5.8), SF (5.8), Miami (5.6), Boston (5.5), W Palm Beach (5.5), LA (5.0)

 

[KaiserUEO]

Baseball's got a litany of problems, but it's always funny to read people decry how boring and slow it is, especially when that criticism comes from rabid NFL fans.

MLB has more action time per game than football, and has nearly 2X the scoring per game.

and the thing that gets me in the soccer v baseball boring argument is when they talk about all the strategy in soccer.

bullspit.

there is also a TON of strategy in baseball and extremely dramatic moments.

to bring in a Yankee reference and future HOF Andy Pettitte, there is nothing that got me on the edge of my seat more than when the camera would show him...glove to face, eyes over webbing just drilling a hole through the catchers glove...while we all waited for the next pitch or that patented move to 1st for the pick off.

 

[CU44SE]

and the thing that gets me in the soccer v baseball boring argument is when they talk about all the strategy in soccer.

bullspit.

there is also a TON of strategy in baseball and extremely dramatic moments.

to bring in a Yankee reference and future HOF Andy Pettitte, there is nothing that got me on the edge of my seat more than when the camera would show him...glove to face, eyes over webbing just drilling a hole through the catchers glove...while we all waited for the next pitch or that patented move to 1st for the pick off.

Theres also nothing like a regular season game lasting 4 hours with batters asking for time to tighten up there batting gloves only to see the pitcher step off the mound when the batter steps back into the box.

 

[billsin01]

The post you referred to was really made about the way these threads always go. There's a lot of evidence about the growth of the sport in this country, but the anti-soccer crowd seems to completely ignore any facts about the growth of the game and solely base their side of the conversation on uninformed opinions. No offense, but earlier you were posting about the difference of the qualities between the MLS and EPL and how terrible the MLS was without ever watching any of the games. ESPN ratings are up 44% from the last world cup but to marginalize that it's said "viewing is up somewhat" and only because the times are much more "convenient" this year, even though the past two world cups have primarily been played during american office hours.

Another sport that is surprisingly growing a lot in the US is cycling. Tour de France ratings are rebounding, cycling participation across the US is growing quite fast and amateur road races are popping up everywhere. If anyone posted about the growth of the sport, most people who aren't interested in it would think "ok" and move on. When it comes to soccer however, it seems people get really bitter about the sport and try to marginalize the progress it is making in the country, without really being able to back up their claims. That's all I'm referring to. It wasn't a comment directly meant for you though.

Edit: I should also add with the "dear american football" title -- I don't see soccer ever surpassing football in this country. But like I've said earlier with our population and economy, it doesn't need to. Heck, football and the MLS have different seasons that barely overlap and the European games are usually over before college football and NFL kick off during the fall/winter.

Someone in these 20+ pages kept arguing that in 10 years soccer would surpass NBA/MLB. I just don't see that which has been my primary argument. But I think we're generally on the same page.

My theory on the resentment some feel toward soccer is this: soccer is one of those sports that has a fan base that is always insisting it's an incredible and beautiful game and it occasionally feels as though they're trying to make you like it or at least insinuate that you may be insane for not liking it.

I mean, the US got thoroughly out-played vs. Belgium but the only stories you hear are how amazing our 1-1-2 performance at the World Cup was, how great Tim Howard played in goal, and how much soccer is growing in america. Think about that -- how crazy is that? You never hear about how great it was for an American team or athlete to simply compete at a decent level.

As for the MLS thing -- I don't know. At some level it's immaterial to our discussion because if I'm way off base in using MLB vs. the minors as an analogy, then the MLS has some serious work to do to change the perception b/c I'm pretty sure I'm not the only US sports fan who sees that as a fairly reasonable comparison. Regardless, it's fair to suggest that the vast percentage of elite soccer talent plays in Europe, right? Is that a fair assumption? That's generally my point -- I think for soccer to zip past the other major sports, I really feel like the MLS needs to be the place the best athletes play. Otherwise it's going to be hard to get wide-spread buy-in.

But, it's probably not worth discussing since I think we both agree the sport will continue to be a larger part of the US sports landscape.

 

[RandygoCuse]

I think it's a long shot for soccer to pass basketball, much less football or baseball. However, I do like that you know a game that starts at 8 will be over at 10.

 

[ImperialOrange]

NFL last year averaged 4.75 TD per game.
EPL and world cup averaged 2.77 goals per game.
MLS averages 2.5 gpg.
NHL 5.3 gpg
MLB 8.3 runs per game
College Football 7.5

NFL is lower scoring that people think. I do wish soccer had more scoring

We can have some fun with this

The average NFL game in 2013 has lasted 3 hours, 10 minutes and 34 seconds
According to The Boston Globe, MLB baseball games average 2 hours, 57 minutes and 33 seconds.
During the 2003-2004 season, the average NHL game lasted 2 hours and 19 minutes
The average Football Bowl Subdivision televised game duration in 2013 was 3 hours 18 minutes
Average soccer game = 45 min half+ 45 min half + 15 min halftime + 6-10 mins stoppage time = 1 hour 55 mins

NFL 190mins/4.75 TDs = TD per 40 minutes
MLB 178 mins/8.3 runs = Run per 21.4 minutes
NCAA football 198 mins/7.5 TDs = TD per 26.4 minutes
NHL 139 mins/5.3 goals = Goal per 26.25 minutes
EPL 115 mins/2.77 goals = Goal per 41.5 minutes
MLS 115 mins/2.5 goals = Goal per 46 minutes

So why is the NFL considered so fast paced and high scoring?

 

[billsin01]

Theres also nothing like a regular season game lasting 4 hours with batters asking for time to tighten up there batting gloves only to see the pitcher step off the mound when the batter steps back into the box.

Baseball needs to work on pace somehow -- I don't think there's any question. But if soccer becomes a big-time sport domestically they'll need to figure out the advertising piece as well. I tend to wonder how that will work out.

 

[billsin01]

So why is the NFL considered so fast paced and high scoring?

College football gets a pass too often as well. There are moments when I'm watching Cuse/Minnesota or some such game against an OK but not terribly exciting opponent where I just hope the clock keeps moving. I'd say I only watch about 1/4 of televised cuse football games live. I DVR it almost exclusively.

 

[Millhouse]

I wasn't comparing football to soccer.

Just noting that just because football randomly awards 6 points for a score doesn't mean the sport is "high scoring".

i am sure i'd think football was even dumber if i wasn't brainwashed

why in the world is there even an extra point? it's like giving some fraction of a point after a goal for some dumb unrelated simple task

We can have some fun with this

The average NFL game in 2013 has lasted 3 hours, 10 minutes and 34 seconds
According to The Boston Globe, MLB baseball games average 2 hours, 57 minutes and 33 seconds.
During the 2003-2004 season, the average NHL game lasted 2 hours and 19 minutes
The average Football Bowl Subdivision televised game duration in 2013 was 3 hours 18 minutes
Average soccer game = 45 min half+ 45 min half + 15 min halftime + 6-10 mins stoppage time = 1 hour 55 mins

NFL 190mins/4.75 TDs = TD per 40 minutes
MLB 178 mins/8.3 runs = Run per 21.4 minutes
NCAA football 198 mins/7.5 TDs = TD per 26.4 minutes
NHL 139 mins/5.5 goals = Goal per 25.25 minutes
EPL 115 mins/2.77 goals = Goal per 41.5 minutes
MLS 115 mins/2.5 goals = Goal per 46 minutes

So why is the NFL considered so fast paced and high scoring?

good post

fast paced and high scoring are very different. you do get guys destroying each others brains at a fast pace. they just don't give points for it.

ncaa football is the best

 

[billsin01]

mlb can catch hockey because so many of the hockey goals are such garbage

I don't think you meant MLB, right? Regardless the thing hockey has going for it, IMO, is the hockey playoffs every year. I spend most of my year largely ignoring hockey, but then I find I love the playoffs. I'm not sure what the difference is, but I'm all in on the hockey playoffs.

 

[Millhouse]

I don't think you meant MLB, right? Regardless the thing hockey has going for it, IMO, is the hockey playoffs every year. I spend most of my year largely ignoring hockey, but then I find I love the playoffs. I'm not sure what the difference is, but I'm all in on the hockey playoffs.

sorry - bad typo. mlS not mlb

i run out of gas for nhl playoffs. first round, all in. then the weather gets nice and i say enough hockey. unless the sabres are involved

 

[KaiserUEO]

Theres also nothing like a regular season game lasting 4 hours with batters asking for time to tighten up there batting gloves only to see the pitcher step off the mound when the batter steps back into the box.

where do you have to be??

the only games that are truly like that are a few Yankee-redsux when there is good reason for it.

 

[RandygoCuse]

One major problem is the time difference between us and Europe. It makes it hard to watch for Americans to watch the best league's (England, Spain, Germany, Italy) live. And even if the MLS were to become huge, I doubt the Europeans would stay up or wake up early to watch. I think the goal of the MLS should be to become the best farm league in the world. They have good facilities, play in nice cities, and the athletes know they will get paid (I heard this can be a problem in some of the South American leagues). So there's no reason that this could not be the prime place to develop talent.

 

[Millhouse]

where do you have to be??

the only games that are truly like that are a few Yankee-redsux when there is good reason for it.

In bed

 

[CU44SE]

Someone in these 20+ pages kept arguing that in 10 years soccer would surpass NBA/MLB. I just don't see that which has been my primary argument. But I think we're generally on the same page.

My theory on the resentment some feel toward soccer is this: soccer is one of those sports that has a fan base that is always insisting it's an incredible and beautiful game and it occasionally feels as though they're trying to make you like it or at least insinuate that you may be insane for not liking it.

I mean, the US got thoroughly out-played vs. Belgium but the only stories you hear are how amazing our 1-1-2 performance at the World Cup was, how great Tim Howard played in goal, and how much soccer is growing in america. Think about that -- how crazy is that? You never hear about how great it was for an American team or athlete to simply compete at a decent level.

As for the MLS thing -- I don't know. At some level it's immaterial to our discussion because if I'm way off base in using MLB vs. the minors as an analogy, then the MLS has some serious work to do to change the perception b/c I'm pretty sure I'm not the only US sports fan who sees that as a fairly reasonable comparison. Regardless, it's fair to suggest that the vast percentage of elite soccer talent plays in Europe, right? Is that a fair assumption? That's generally my point -- I think for soccer to zip past the other major sports, I really feel like the MLS needs to be the place the best athletes play. Otherwise it's going to be hard to get wide-spread buy-in.

But, it's probably not worth discussing since I think we both agree the sport will continue to be a larger part of the US sports landscape.

Do you read these messages or just post to fit your argument? I said something like this 2 different times, but said it would surpass MLB. I said it wouldn't pass NBA, but would have a chance. Again, baseball population is aging and dieing. The soccer population is young and growing, there is more access to soccer then ever before on television. Even 3 years ago you could watch maybe 1 EPL game a weekend, now every single game is at your fingertips. This world cup has grown over 44% in just four years not including univision, and their will be two more world cups within the next 10 years (which was the time frame, give or take I gave) and the USA will host a world cup in either 22 if Qatar is banned from hosting or 26 (which the fifa commission basically said we would have a great shot which is in 12 years) which will only further grow the sport. Did I make an assumption? Yes I did, and maybe its not realistic but I used evidence to back my claim. Something you fail to do, which becomes increasingly evident when you haven't even watched a game of MLS or EPL and try to compare the leagues.

 

[ImperialOrange]

College football gets a pass too often as well. There are moments when I'm watching Cuse/Minnesota or some such game against an OK but not terribly exciting opponent where I just hope the clock keeps moving. I'd say I only watch about 1/4 of televised cuse football games live. I DVR it almost exclusively.

Hopefully our offense gets to a point where you no longer need to just hope the clock keeps running

 

[CU44SE]

where do you have to be??

the only games that are truly like that are a few Yankee-redsux when there is good reason for it.

The red sox game last wed against the cubs lasted 4 hours and 19 minutes. Thats a little excessive.

 

[Millhouse]

One major problem is the time difference between us and Europe. It makes it hard to watch for Americans to watch the best league's (England, Spain, Germany, Italy) live. And even if the MLS were to become huge, I doubt the Europeans would stay up or wake up early to watch. I think the goal of the MLS should be to become the best farm league in the world. They have good facilities, play in nice cities, and the athletes know they will get paid (I heard this can be a problem in some of the South American leagues). So there's no reason that this could not be the prime place to develop talent.

i agree that's what they should do but there's only so much potential for that. which is fine.

i think it could be better than minor league baseball because it takes longer for baseball players to learn. it won't be as big as college sports because there's no connection to a beloved school.

pair up with all the best euro teams, use their scouting, borrow their young players. US fans can feel like they have a home team in Europe. much more so than minor league baseball where people already have a MLB team to root for that might be different from the parent club of your local team.

 

[ImperialOrange]

good post

fast paced and high scoring are very different. you do get guys destroying each others brains at a fast pace. they just don't give points for it.

ncaa football is the best

The constant breaks in action bore me to tears with most US sports but I think overall it likely feeds the popularity because it gives us plenty of time to stuff our faces as well. If there's one thing American's love as much as sports, it's stuffing our faces.

I can roll through a soccer match with 2-3 beers vs watching a football game where it will be 6 beers + ~4000 calories worth of food.

 

[Scooch]

where do you have to be??

the only games that are truly like that are a few Yankee-redsux when there is good reason for it.

The other night I randomly decided to watch 'Ghandi' on Netflix. A 3 hour, 15 minute movie.

It was still shorter than half of the baseball games being played that night.

MLB desperately needs to shorten their games. Most of the added length over the past couple decades is because of the huge increase in pitching changes.

Basically, Tony LaRussa ruined baseball.

 

[shandeezy7]

We can have some fun with this

The average NFL game in 2013 has lasted 3 hours, 10 minutes and 34 seconds
According to The Boston Globe, MLB baseball games average 2 hours, 57 minutes and 33 seconds.
During the 2003-2004 season, the average NHL game lasted 2 hours and 19 minutes
The average Football Bowl Subdivision televised game duration in 2013 was 3 hours 18 minutes
Average soccer game = 45 min half+ 45 min half + 15 min halftime + 6-10 mins stoppage time = 1 hour 55 mins

NFL 190mins/4.75 TDs = TD per 40 minutes
MLB 178 mins/8.3 runs = Run per 21.4 minutes
NCAA football 198 mins/7.5 TDs = TD per 26.4 minutes
NHL 139 mins/5.3 goals = Goal per 26.25 minutes
EPL 115 mins/2.77 goals = Goal per 41.5 minutes
MLS 115 mins/2.5 goals = Goal per 46 minutes

So why is the NFL considered so fast paced and high scoring?

So essentially one of the best arguments soccer fanatics have about the game is that it ends quickly? If only I could use that same logic with my girlfriend...

 

[Millhouse]

The other night I randomly decided to watch 'Ghandi' on Netflix. A 3 hour, 15 minute movie.

It was still shorter than half of the baseball games being played that night.

MLB desperately needs to shorten their games. Most of the added length over the past couple decades is because of the huge increase in pitching changes.

Basically, Tony LaRussa ruined baseball.

i think i read somewhere the Vin Scully blames velcro.

i can deal with pitching changes. at least there is some strategy. the stupid ticks and worthless rituals of batters make me crazier.