Dear american football...

[ImperialOrange]

Well, you also have to take into account when someone is lying on the ground for 5 minutes pretending that their leg needs to be amputated (multiple occasions per game), as well as the setup time for goal kicks, corner kicks, free kicks, and the amount of time teams stall at the end of the game to make a substitution. I wouldn't define any of that as action.

Fair enough but none of that adds to the total run time of a game.

When NFL players fake injuries? clock stops. Real Injuries? Clock stops. Incomplete pass and the ball being reset? clock stops. Ball carrier goes out of bounds? clock stops. Guy with a red shirt stands on the field? clock stops. time out? clock stops. play review? clock stops. While all of this is happening there is nothing happening on the field so they show commercials, cheerleaders, coaches/players standing on the sideline, crowd shots, etc. During all of what you mentioned there is something happening on the field. Players fighting for position during set pieces, players moving while the keeper kicks out, heated arguments while players time waste, are all better than showing Belichek in a cut off hoodie hiding his mouth with his clip board for 30 seconds.

I'm a Syracuse football fan first and foremost but if watching on TV, football doesn't have the same amount of game related moving parts for entertainment. At the game you can see subs, and formations and try and guess the play vs what play you think should be run. On TV the camera pretty much just shows the QB behind the center until the ball is snapped. You can watch 2 football games at once and know whats going on in both. Not as much for soccer.

 

[KaiserUEO]

i think i saw that too. i want to see loud, open, official links

i think i'm going to adopt man city, i sorta did this year, but i felt like a front runner. it's not really sticking. Chip is dying to move to Man City, he's going to be sorely disappointed to find women there.

i adopted them when they were struggling to be tier 1. my rubber arm used to be twisted by all the damn euros i drank with, into going to bars at 8am on a sunday to watch matches. i finally said F it, im going to pick a team.

i was told 'listen youre a Yankee fan, the Knicks and the Giants had just gone to Championships, we are not going to allow you to all of a sudden start rooting for ManU, Liverpool or Chelsea.'

i said fine, does any of those teams have a mets or jets?? and so Man City it was.

and now they win Championships...BOOM!! how ya like me now??!!

 

[Millhouse]

Great in theory but couldn't be executed. Most CL level teams have their own B clubs (Bayern Munich II, Barcalona B, etc) that play in lower leagues as well as U21s and U17s. There's been talk of big EPL teams doing the same. The need for European clubs to have an MLS affiliate simply isn't there and the amount of gaurenteed first flight teams in most leagues is limited. What would happen if an MLS teamas affiliate got relegated?

better attendance here, more money to be made.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013–14_Professional_U21_Development_League lousy attendance

 

[Pyle]

for the football is better because it scores more often crowd remember that the NFL has spent the better part of that least the last two decades taking away much of the defenses ability to prevent scoring. Soccer is as it was.
I grew up on football, basketball and baseball. I find football to be now tedious and boring because it takes over 3 hours to play about 12 minutes of action. it is all about selling commercial spots now rather than the product on the field or the fan in the stands.

Probably because two of my sons play soccer I have come to appreciate the game and have a little bit of ability to watch as plays develop and how close scoring opportunities are only to be thwarted. I guess that exposure has made me more of a soccer fan than a football fan at this point.

So you go to more SU Soccer games than you do Football games? Is that what you're saying? Quick without looking it up, how many here can tell me the Men's soccer team record this past year? SU Football last year?

 

[ImperialOrange]

better attendance here, more money to be made.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013–14_Professional_U21_Development_League lousy attendance

Better attendence in the US and more money for the US clubs. What's the benefit for the European club?

 

[Pyle]

it's funny that a sport whose meatheads hate soccer so much are so willing to let the game come down to a kicking contest between soccer players. at least the stupid soccer shootout is contested by the players who played the whole game

I don't think kicking had much to do with beat BC in the Dome. It didn't come down to a couple of soccer players. I call shenanigans on this argument.

 

[Millhouse]

Better attendence in the US and more money for the US clubs. What's the benefit for the European club?

more money for them too, i am assuming that there could be a split

 

[Millhouse]

I don't think kicking had much to do with beat BC in the Dome. It didn't come down to a couple of soccer players. I call shenanigans on this argument.

you call shenanigans because of one game?

 

[Pyle]

We can have some fun with this

The average NFL game in 2013 has lasted 3 hours, 10 minutes and 34 seconds
According to The Boston Globe, MLB baseball games average 2 hours, 57 minutes and 33 seconds.
During the 2003-2004 season, the average NHL game lasted 2 hours and 19 minutes
The average Football Bowl Subdivision televised game duration in 2013 was 3 hours 18 minutes
Average soccer game = 45 min half+ 45 min half + 15 min halftime + 6-10 mins stoppage time = 1 hour 55 mins

NFL 190mins/4.75 TDs = TD per 40 minutes
MLB 178 mins/8.3 runs = Run per 21.4 minutes
NCAA football 198 mins/7.5 TDs = TD per 26.4 minutes
NHL 139 mins/5.3 goals = Goal per 26.25 minutes
EPL 115 mins/2.77 goals = Goal per 41.5 minutes
MLS 115 mins/2.5 goals = Goal per 46 minutes

So why is the NFL considered so fast paced and high scoring?

So basically American Football, even with all the timeouts, incomplete passes, injury timeouts, commercials, and replays is still a higher scoring game than either soccer league even though they never stop the clock. Thanks you just proved what alot of us have been saying all along. I'd like to add that during those stops in play I would much rather watch a replay of a WR getting creamed coming over the middle than a replay of some guy flopping on the ground who didn't even get hit.

NFL is by far my favorite sport, but do you want your mind blown? In that 190 minutes, the ball is only in play for an average of 11 minutes. 56% of the broadcast is showing replays, while commercials take up 60 minutes of the 190 minutes

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704281204575002852055561406

Because they actually stop the clock instead of keeping mystery time. Lining up for corner kicks isn't action either but the soccer guys just let that clock keep on ticking. Same with throw-ins, penalty kicks, etc. Alot of time is wasted in a soccer match as well. Not as much as football but you have to consider that. Hockey and Basketball are the only major sports that actually utilize every second of a game clock.

you call shenanigans because of one game?

Fine, Penn State, NW, FSU, Clemson, Wagner, etc all weren't decided by kickers either.

Field Goals...

New rule: missed field goal is a 15 yard penalty and loss of down.

Teams won't try long ones, and you'll see them on third down at the end of halfs.

It's already close to a 10 yard penalty and loss of down since the ball gets placed at the spot of the kick and handed over to the other team.

 

[Millhouse]

So basically American Football, even with all the timeouts, incomplete passes, injury timeouts, commercials, and replays is still a higher scoring game than either soccer league even though they never stop the clock. Thanks you just proved what alot of us have been saying all along. I'd like to add that during those stops in play I would much rather watch a replay of a WR getting creamed coming over the middle than a replay of some guy flopping on the ground who didn't even get hit.




Because they actually stop the clock instead of keeping mystery time. Lining up for corner kicks isn't action either but the soccer guys just let that clock keep on ticking. Same with throw-ins, penalty kicks, etc. Alot of time is wasted in a soccer match as well. Not as much as football but you have to consider that. Hockey and Basketball are the only major sports that actually utilize every second of a game clock.



Fine, Penn State, NW, FSU, Clemson, Wagner, etc all weren't decided by kickers either.



It's already close to a 10 yard penalty and loss of down since the ball gets placed at the spot of the kick and handed over to the other team.

the more entertaining the game, the more likely a kicker will play a big role

 

[CU44SE]

Because they actually stop the clock instead of keeping mystery time. Lining up for corner kicks isn't action either but the soccer guys just let that clock keep on ticking. Same with throw-ins, penalty kicks, etc. Alot of time is wasted in a soccer match as well. Not as much as football but you have to consider that. Hockey and Basketball are the only major sports that actually utilize every second of a game clock.

Look two posts above and I put how much actual time is in soccer, its 62-65 minutes of actual time. According to studies on the NBA, there are 90 minutes of down time somewhere in there broadcasts, and the NHL has 17 minutes between each intermission of hockey and studies show 46 minutes of idle time. These are dead moments in these sports, there is no sport where watching time is entire game action, but soccer is by far the closest.

This website gives a little bit different baseball stats then the one I listed before, 3 extra minutes but the breakdowns are as follows.

Baseball - 10.10% of 2hr 58min broadcast is action
Football - 5.90% of 3hr 5 min broadcast is action
Soccer - 55.60% of 1hr 55 min of broadcast is action
Basketball- 34.70% of 2hr 18 min broadcast is action
Hockey- 42.80% of 2hr 20 min broadcast is action

 

[ImperialOrange]

So basically American Football, even with all the timeouts, incomplete passes, injury timeouts, commercials, and replays is still a higher scoring game than either soccer league even though they never stop the clock. Thanks you just proved what alot of us have been saying all along. I'd like to add that during those stops in play I would much rather watch a replay of a WR getting creamed coming over the middle than a replay of some guy flopping on the ground who didn't even get hit.

Negative ghost rider, per those numbers it's virtually identical. Preferring to watch replays vs live feed is exactly that, a preference. I'm not trying to convert anyone from football to soccer though, just rather throwing out numbers.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Because they actually stop the clock instead of keeping mystery time. Lining up for corner kicks isn't action either but the soccer guys just let that clock keep on ticking. Same with throw-ins, penalty kicks, etc. Alot of time is wasted in a soccer match as well. Not as much as football but you have to consider that. Hockey and Basketball are the only major sports that actually utilize every second of a game clock.

Action needs to be defined. A huge chunk of a soccer match is guys just jogging up or down the field, while the ball is passed back and forth elsewhere, or the ball is out of play, or someone is lining up a corner/throw-in, etc. I see that as the same as a basketball team running set plays with many passes, or slowly walking the ball up. It's football's version of running players in and out of the lineup, or huddling. I wouldn't confuse movement for action in soccer. I consider action in soccer anything that happens on one of the field, near a goal. All the rest is just noise, same as in other sports.

 

[Pyle]

Is Aug 5th here yet?

 

[SU2NASA]

Even worse:

 

[CU44SE]

Your point? Watch arguably the best player in the NBA who stands 6'8" and weighs 250

 

[DeGrozz]

Your point? Watch arguably the best player in the NBA who stands 6'8" and weighs 250

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/stor...cher-admits-chicago-bears-faked-some-injuries

 

[billsin01]

Do you read these messages or just post to fit your argument? I said something like this 2 different times, but said it would surpass MLB. I said it wouldn't pass NBA, but would have a chance. Again, baseball population is aging and dieing. The soccer population is young and growing, there is more access to soccer then ever before on television. Even 3 years ago you could watch maybe 1 EPL game a weekend, now every single game is at your fingertips. This world cup has grown over 44% in just four years not including univision, and their will be two more world cups within the next 10 years (which was the time frame, give or take I gave) and the USA will host a world cup in either 22 if Qatar is banned from hosting or 26 (which the fifa commission basically said we would have a great shot which is in 12 years) which will only further grow the sport. Did I make an assumption? Yes I did, and maybe its not realistic but I used evidence to back my claim. Something you fail to do, which becomes increasingly evident when you haven't even watched a game of MLS or EPL and try to compare the leagues.

Dude, breathe. I don't know why you're so fired up. If you want numbers, I can give them to you.

-- Baseball, with all it's old and dying fans, collects $1.5B annually from it's TV deals with three networks and that doesn't include anything generated from the MLB network. MLS's new watershed deal nets it $90M annually, which is obviously a huge increase from it's previous deals (roughly 5x as much). That's awesome. But even if MLS increases it's next deal 10-fold it's still pales in comparison to MLB's deals. Ratings-wise, it's a mixed bag for MLB. Houston, with it's cluster-f TV situation drew a 0.0 rating for a game against the Angels, but Fox set all kinds of records on opening day this March.

-- How about attendance? Well, MLS averaged 18,486 per game in 2014 (the rapidly growing MLS was actually down .66%, according to this site anyway), meaning it outdrew, on average, I believe one MLB team (the disaster that is Rays and Tropicana Field). Cleveland is down there as well, so perhaps two. MLB, meanwhile, is still drawing it's ancient fan base at a pretty phenomenal level, with the league average annually being around 3M fans (MLS plays what, 34 games, putting their total draw for the season at somewhere around 646,000/team). As far as trends go -- MLS is basically holding steady over 2013, MLB is in roughly the same boat. But, regardless, most MLB teams outdraw almost every MLS team (except SEattle) AND they do it 81 times a year.

So, what do we draw from any of this? I think the bottom line is that the MLS has a long way to go financially and in terms of fan base to catch MLB. So yes, if MLS doubles in the next 10 years and half the old, decrepit baseball fans keel over and die, then will see this league dominating the sports scene.

So there, you have some numbers. Regardless, I still think it's beside the point, which is that there is no reason soccer couldn't become a central part of the American sports scene -- particularly with ESPN behind it. I'd also suggest that MLB has some issues of it's own to deal with.

But I think our disagreement comes down to a simple point: Do you believe the EPL is more talented than the MLS and, if your answer is no (Edit: sorry, confused myself), do you think the MLS can catch up in 10 years? That's really my only point -- for soccer to overtake MLB and even the NHL (which it hasn't yet) on the American sports scene, the MLS needs to be able to stake a legitimate claim as at least being the EPL's equal. I just don't see how it happens otherwise.

And, anecdotally, I went to the Nats/O's game that got rained out last night and I only saw four colostomy bags.

 

[billsin01]

The pitching changes drive me insane. Just an endless parade of crappy middle relievers being rotated in every couple of batters. Such over-managing.

All the added time for commercial breaks, batters taking more pitches, and the rituals you mention only add a few extra minutes.

The lefty/righty/situational nonsense that every manager feels obligated to participate in adds 2-3X that.

I basically agree on the pitching changes, but if stephen or jd drew are coming to the dish and you're not putting in a lefty, shame on you.

 

[billsin01]

Action needs to be defined. A huge chunk of a soccer match is guys just jogging up or down the field, while the ball is passed back and forth elsewhere, or the ball is out of play, or someone is lining up a corner/throw-in, etc. I see that as the same as a basketball team running set plays with many passes, or slowly walking the ball up. It's football's version of running players in and out of the lineup, or huddling. I wouldn't confuse movement for action in soccer. I consider action in soccer anything that happens on one of the field, near a goal. All the rest is just noise, same as in other sports.

Yeah, I would agree with this and before anyone gets offended I'm not insinuating soccer has too much standing around, merely suggesting that not all action is created equally. I also still believe that if soccer continues to grow and becomes a big(ger) player in the US, that they are probably going to try and find some way to innundate us with advertising during the game.

 

[Eric15]

I have nothing but respect for the World Cup, but I really need some American football back in my life. Can we just fast forward to Labor Day weekend? Would anyone be opposed to that?

 

[jekelish]

I have nothing but respect for the World Cup, but I really need some American football back in my life. Can we just fast forward to Labor Day weekend? Would anyone be opposed to that?

I would be, because it means I'll be back in the thick of it with my job and working games.

 

[HOFCeluck]

It's a problem if in order to watch the game at its highest level I have to go to a bar at seven am.

 

[Bayside44]

Dude, breathe. I don't know why you're so fired up. If you want numbers, I can give them to you.

-- Baseball, with all it's old and dying fans, collects $1.5B annually from it's TV deals with three networks and that doesn't include anything generated from the MLB network. MLS's new watershed deal nets it $90M annually, which is obviously a huge increase from it's previous deals (roughly 5x as much). That's awesome. But even if MLS increases it's next deal 10-fold it's still pales in comparison to MLB's deals. Ratings-wise, it's a mixed bag for MLB. Houston, with it's cluster-f TV situation drew a 0.0 rating for a game against the Angels, but Fox set all kinds of records on opening day this March.

-- How about attendance? Well, MLS averaged 18,486 per game in 2014 (the rapidly growing MLS was actually down .66%, according to this site anyway), meaning it outdrew, on average, I believe one MLB team (the disaster that is Rays and Tropicana Field). Cleveland is down there as well, so perhaps two. MLB, meanwhile, is still drawing it's ancient fan base at a pretty phenomenal level, with the league average annually being around 3M fans (MLS plays what, 34 games, putting their total draw for the season at somewhere around 646,000/team). As far as trends go -- MLS is basically holding steady over 2013, MLB is in roughly the same boat. But, regardless, most MLB teams outdraw almost every MLS team (except SEattle) AND they do it 81 times a year.

So, what do we draw from any of this? I think the bottom line is that the MLS has a long way to go financially and in terms of fan base to catch MLB. So yes, if MLS doubles in the next 10 years and half the old, decrepit baseball fans keel over and die, then will see this league dominating the sports scene.

So there, you have some numbers. Regardless, I still think it's beside the point, which is that there is no reason soccer couldn't become a central part of the American sports scene -- particularly with ESPN behind it. I'd also suggest that MLB has some issues of it's own to deal with.

But I think our disagreement comes down to a simple point: Do you believe the EPL is more talented than the MLS and, if your answer is no (Edit: sorry, confused myself), do you think the MLS can catch up in 10 years? That's really my only point -- for soccer to overtake MLB and even the NHL (which it hasn't yet) on the American sports scene, the MLS needs to be able to stake a legitimate claim as at least being the EPL's equal. I just don't see how it happens otherwise.

And, anecdotally, I went to the Nats/O's game that got rained out last night and I only saw four colostomy bags.

I was there too, what a sh!tshow...

 

[Opus]

I have a problem with a team making the final on a 'penalty shootout'. (I think that is the term.) I would be okay with that if it was a regular season game but when it is 1 and done, just seems kind of cheap. Anyone else feel this way or is it just me? Granted I am not a huge soccer fan so I don't know the history. Maybe that is part of it. With that being said... 'Deutschland über alles' (Well when the USA isn't invloved)