Dear american football...

[jekelish]

Americans love two things.

1. Big events
2. America

A good showing by a US team at a big event is the perfect storm.

Remember, prior to the USA-Portugal match the most-viewed soccer game in American TV history was...the 1999 Women's World Cup final.

How have those women's pro soccer leagues fared?

I get your point, but how have ANY women's leagues fared? WNBA is by far the most successful and that's based almost entirely on the sheer willpower of David Stern to keep it going. It has a lower average attendance than National Lax League and Arena League Football, for god's sake. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

 

[billsin01]

Americans love two things.

1. Big events
2. America

A good showing by a US team at a big event is the perfect storm.

Remember, prior to the USA-Portugal match the most-viewed soccer game in American TV history was...the 1999 Women's World Cup final.

How have those women's pro soccer leagues fared?

Ezzactly. I really don't care one way or the other how much soccer grows but it's like saying Michael Phelps will spurn a huge swimming craze across the US. It just doesn't work that way.

 

[billsin01]

I get your point, but how have ANY women's leagues fared? WNBA is by far the most successful and that's based almost entirely on the sheer willpower of David Stern to keep it going. It has a lower average attendance than National Lax League and Arena League Football, for god's sake. It's an apples and oranges comparison.

I'd argue it's more apples to apples than you suggest in the sense that the Women's world cup win was a HUGE, HUGE event ... and not just b/c of the brandy chastain antics. I mean people absolutely loved that thing. The WNBA, as you correctly point out, survives largely as Stern's baby, but it doesn't seem that far afield, IMO, to suggest that the WNBA is to the NBA as the MLS is to the EPL. Before everyone completely flips out, I'm not saying the MLS doesn't have some merit, but simply that getting really attached to a particular MLS team is odd b/c if you are a soccer fan you're aware that the real sport is played on a different continent. Does that change at some point? It certainly could, but 10-15 years seems like an incredibly short window.

 

[jekelish]

I'd argue it's more apples to apples than you suggest in the sense that the Women's world cup win was a HUGE, HUGE event ... and not just b/c of the brandy chastain antics. I mean people absolutely loved that thing. The WNBA, as you correctly point out, survives largely as Stern's baby, but it doesn't seem that far afield, IMO, to suggest that the WNBA is to the NBA as the MLS is to the EPL. Before everyone completely flips out, I'm not saying the MLS doesn't have some merit, but simply that getting really attached to a particular MLS team is odd b/c if you are a soccer fan you're aware that the real sport is played on a different continent. Does that change at some point? It certainly could, but 10-15 years seems like an incredibly short window.

I'm saying apples to oranges in terms of the difference in men's sports versus women's sports. Women's sports, at least for the foreseeable future, will never make a major cultural impact on the professional level. That may (and hopefully will) change in the future, but you simply can't compare men's sports to women's sports right now.

 

[Bayside44]

USA/Portugal had 24.72 million viewers in the US. Since 2005, the World Series has had that big an audience...once.[/quote]


If you're team isn't playing people generally don't watch with much interest. A lot different with a county (on a Sunday late afternoon)

 

[billsin01]

I'm saying apples to oranges in terms of the difference in men's sports versus women's sports. Women's sports, at least for the foreseeable future, will never make a major cultural impact on the professional level. That may (and hopefully will) change in the future, but you simply can't compare men's sports to women's sports right now.

I don't care at all if people watch women's sports -- not b/c I'm sexist but b/c you can't shame people into being interested in what is generally a much lesser product. That's not to say the women aren't amazing in their sports but that it's the WNBA is simply not the nba in terms of talent, size, speed, etc.

But that's neither here nor there. The point I'd argue is that the MLS simply can't compare from a talent or level of play standpoint to the EPL right now, right? Obviously the gap can't be as large as WNBA to nba, but it's still a massive difference. Until that shrinks significantly I just don't think soccer has a prayer of even taking over the nhl, let alone the nba or mlb. Could it happen at some point? I suppose -- but it would be decades, not years IMO.

 

[jekelish]

I don't care at all if people watch women's sports -- not b/c I'm s e x ist but b/c you can't shame people into being interested in what is generally a much lesser product. That's not to say the women aren't amazing in their sports but that it's the WNBA is simply not the nba in terms of talent, size, speed, etc.

But that's neither here nor there. The point I'd argue is that the MLS simply can't compare from a talent or level of play standpoint to the EPL right now, right? Obviously the gap can't be as large as WNBA to nba, but it's still a massive difference. Until that shrinks significantly I just don't think soccer has a prayer of even taking over the nhl, let alone the nba or mlb. Could it happen at some point? I suppose -- but it would be decades, not years IMO.

Frankly I would argue soccer is at least even with hockey in the US at this point. I don't think I'm alone there.

I really do understand your points -- simply disagree with you on most of them. I just think soccer is farther along than you do.

 

[javadoc]

I'd be a bit worried if I were you. This wasn't some "oh, how cute a soccer game is on" moment for the american sports fan. This was a "holy cow, this is freaking great" tournament.

Add this to the concussion issue and I think there's legit reason for concern.

Some 10 year old future Bo Jackson might choose soccer with a nudge from mom and dad.

As long as folks are piling on about the merits of soccer, it boils down to one simple fact for me. You can't use your hands in soccer (apart from the goalie). Take away the part of the human body that makes it so interesting, sure. Great idea. So you get 90+ minutes of people running around, and not much happening. Not a big fan of games that are so stacked against the offense that you get miniscule scoring.

 

[CanadianSU]

What about a lacrosse-type setup where three guys from each team have to stay one one side of the field thus generating more space?

Not a bad idea... Although, would these lacrosse like rules go over well with the europeans?

 

[CanadianSU]

Frankly I would argue soccer is at least even with hockey in the US at this point. I don't think I'm alone there.

I really do understand your points -- simply disagree with you on most of them. I just think soccer is farther along than you do.

In the North is it even with hockey?

 

[Shermthegeneral]

Ever since the EPL has gotten more exposure on Fox Soccer, I've found myself watching more and more of soccer. I enjoy watching it way more than baseball or hockey! Right now most of our top athletes play everything except soccer and I'm really excited at what the future holds as I think it will start to attract top us athletes and the development of the us game will continue to progress.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Ha -- I see kids being pulled out of soccer and into lax and baseball because parents don't like watching their 7 year learning how to flop.

This was an event and excuse not to work.

Derek Jeter and every NFL rreceiver disagrees.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Ezzactly. I really don't care one way or the other how much soccer grows but it's like saying Michael Phelps will spurn a huge swimming craze the US. It just doesn't work that way.

Soccer will grow exponentially due to youth participation. Really good athletes are going that route now. I know 2 kids who are big enough and fast enough to play for Syracuse CBA but are playing soccer instead. 20 years ago that would not happen.

 

[Phillymoose]

Youth soccer development in SoCal is very advanced, and within the past 3 years American youth from SoCal have entered into international club academies in Brazil, Mexico, Spain, Holland, Germany and the UK. The big international clubs are now actively recruiting SoCal and pumping money into certain clubs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/08/s...us-child-soccer-star.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

All this talk about our youth system's inability to produce world class talent is frankly about 5 years too late. These kids - whether trained locally by dudes with foreign accents (of which there is no shortage in SoCal) or in overseas academies - are still Americans and will someday pull on the USA jersey. IMO - we've cracked the development nut and I'd even go so far as to say that the international soccer intelligentsia know it. Does it guarantee us a WC victory in the future - no, but we will not be the underdogs in international soccer for long.

I know - blah blah. You hear it every 4 years. It just happens to be true this time.

Again - if you are willing to imagine a world where the US is consistently a top 5 squad in the world - with one or more US players being international superstars, then it is not a far leap in logic to also contemplate what that could mean to soccer's popularity in the US.

 

[Jamesvillecuse]

lets wait and see how many will watch when the games are in Russia at 4 am. I watched because I support any time USA plays in a competition in any sport but I will not watch any other soccer just to watch soccer. If the best athletes in this country played soccer the US would dominate the sport but they do not and we are still a top 11 team in the world. I expect the team to continue to get better and eventually will be a top 5 team. Klinsmann is a brilliant head coach and will always get the most out of his players the future is very bright for the sport in this country. I am 48 and when I was a kid the kids who played soccer were the kids who really weren't good athletes but now they start playing at 6 to 8 years old.

 

[gocraz4dasu]

When I was younger I was a part of the faction that thought "soccer is for wussies!" This despite the fact I had played soccer throughout my childhood and was a good goalie but pursued baseball instead because I had more friends playing baseball, which is one of my few regrets. Then in high school I started watching a few EPL games, World Cup qualifiers, and bought FIFA. I ended up loving it once again like I did when I was young. Now about 6 or 7 years later, here I am watching the EPL, SPL, MLS, and Bundesliga when I can on top of watching the international scene. I'm in Asia this whole summer so I've been staying up/getting up at 4 in the morning to watch these games.

What most here don't realize is that the sport is growing massively through FIFA. My friends (all early 20's) all own the game and now have at minimum a basic knowledge of the game along with some rabid fans like myself now. The kids younger than me are following suit and the soccer connection is getting stronger. That is the difference between this world cup and the 2010 world cup. The FIFA series will continue building upon the 2014 success in the world cup and that excites me and that the US has a few kids that have a lot of potential to take the USMNT far in the 2018 world cup and Klinnsman will still be the coach. I wish the FIFA game had the popularity in 2010 like it does now so it could have built off the USA v. Algeria game. It existed but most did not own the game like I did. FIFA Ultimate Team was a stroke of genius by EA, which is a shocker because EA tends to suck.

I hope that 10 to 15 years down the line it is undeniable how popular the game has become in the US. More and more younger kids are being scouted in the US to play on European youth teams. MLS needs to respond by expanding youth squads, eliminating some of the ridiculous rules, and continue expanding and buying talented players.

And if you guys haven't been to a soccer game in Europe or South America, I'd advise you to go. At worst go to an MLS game, there are some places around the US that have solid fan support. Seattle would be the ideal choice as its atmosphere is closest to Europe or South Americas but even then it's a whole different level there. I love college football and have seen games at a multitude of stadiums but the atmosphere will never compare to soccer crowds.

Here are a few examples to get an idea of it... (people wearing headphones, turn volume down)
Celtic
San Lorenzo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og-vfcQG07I
Crystal Palace (fans at an away park)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIfs3hRA6x4
Liverpool
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N51jWNsW3F8
Aris Thessaloniki
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV4lrjvkXQo
Fenerbahce 25)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9Z7jPD3Wo

 

[donniesyracuse]

MLS averages close to 20,000 spectators. That is an impressive number that illustrates the growth of the league and the sport. The "MLS out draws the NBA" nonsense needs to stop however. It is a silly and meaningless statistic. By the same standard, Syracuse football out draws Syracuse basketball. What does it tell you? Nothing.

Soccer is experiencing increased interest and the trend will continue. I think some of the "soccer hate" is a reaction against the soccer fan that cites meaningless stats and makes bold predictions that "soccer will overtake X sport in X years." Why is it so important to soccer fan that everybody like what he/she likes?

On an unrelated note, changing demographics should also help baseball.

 

[xc84]

I will never, ever understand why some people are so adamantly against the idea of soccer becoming popular.

I know. It's been going on for 40 years. I guess they are winning.

 

[xc84]

No. Soccer is not the EPL.

Are you glossing over the fact that MLS outdraws professional basketball in this country? I'm confused why this isn't viewed as being at all significant.

NBA had 21 million in 2013. MLS had 6.

 

[texascpa]

I'm not saying football. It obviously won't compete with football in America.

But I think it's very much a threat to baseball in terms of popularity.

ahhhh, sorry, the thread was about taking over football, so I thought your argument was in that direction.

 

[TheCusian]

The detractors in this thread seem to think giant viewing numbers don't translate to more participation and interest. There may never be a giant wave - but every time the World Cup, interest grows.

That and the demographics means good solid slow growth.

 

[texascpa]

Ask them which they prefer, though. You'll get soccer 95% of the time.

Sorry, dude, don't buy that. I'll put it at 50/50 from my personal experience.

 

[CuseOnly]

Just for kicks...

USA/Portugal had 24.72 million viewers in the US. Since 2005, the World Series has had that big an audience...once.

The actual viewership was 18.2 million as the official number per article below.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/world-cup-ratings-usa-portugal-714017

Again, you can't compare it to the WS because nobody cares about the WS unless you are a fan of one or both clubs playing. The WC the entire country gets involved.

My wife is a perfect example, could care less about any sport that does not involve the NFL or our kids. She follows world cup soccer because the roots for the team and her country. After the cup is over you can't pay her to watch a sport unless it's the NFL which she watches every game on TV that she can.

Until of course, 4 years from now the WC is on. This is the average US soccer fan.

In my previous post, the numbers I looked up states that there were 13 million soccer players in the US of all ages and levels. Why are there not at least 13 million people watching each MLS game when they are on?? Hockey ratings are better and there are only 600K registered hockey players and coaches. Why?

 

[CuseOnly]

The detractors in this thread seem to think giant viewing numbers don't translate to more participation and interest. There may never be a giant wave - but every time the World Cup, interest grows.

That and the demographics means good solid slow growth.

There is already 13 (13 million)times more Soccer players in the US than there are HS football players (as of 2/14 1.08 million) why has this participation not equaled ratings?

 

[xc84]

Kyle Rote Jr. made soccer popular in this country. Or was it Pele? Freddy Adu?