Dear american football...

[IthacaMatt]

This thread is still going? I forgot soccer existed already.

Well, just for the hell of it, DVR the upcoming semifinals for yourself and watch them in between golf and tennis and baseball, just for a change of pace. The two semifinals are futbol at its best - Brazil versus Germany, and Argentina (with Lionel Messi) versus The Netherlands, with Arjen Robben and Robin Van Persie.

Brazil is missing their star player, young Neymar, who has a broken bone in his back. Germany is a team full of skillful players, not just metronomes. If you see the sport played at the highest level, it's really a great experience. I hope you give it a shot. You might enjoy it.

 

[jekelish]

I'm sorry, but the "let's take out Univision because the real argument is whether white people like the sport" comment is just...wow. Hispanics don't count as Americans, I guess is the point being made?

Also, I'm a white male who is over 30 and my stance on soccer is pretty clear at this point. And holy hell, if anyone ever suggests NASCAR is a sport, let alone one I would ever care about because I'm a white male, I may shoot someone. Hint: driving a car in a circle isn't a sport.

 

[TheCusian]

I'm sorry, but the "let's take out Univision because the real argument is whether white people like the sport" comment is just...wow. Hispanics don't count as Americans, I guess is the point being made? Also, I'm a white male who is over 30 and my stance on soccer is pretty clear at this point. And holy hell, if anyone ever suggests NASCAR is a sport, let alone one I would ever care about because I'm a white male, I may shoot someone. Hint: driving a car in a circle isn't a sport.

Truth.

Also a white male over 30 who used to hate soccer and after the last two World Cups - at the very least, can see why it's so popular.

For me it's: Football, Basketball, Soccer and I don't care about the others, esp Baseball the time vampire.

 

[Pyle]

Soccer is a better viewing experience, period. ... Fatigue is such a factor. Mental lapses and the pressure at the ends of games can be phenomenal. It can build and build.

So basically we wait 2 hours for 1 team to get tired enough to screw up? Not my thing. To you guys who love it, more power to you. I love the NHL but I understand many others don't. The big problem I think is the similarities and differences in the 2 sports for me. Both games share the same idea of using something other than your hands to put an object into a net with a goalie standing between you and glory. In one sport, you have guys on skates moving very fast in a very condensed area. They wear pads and are allowed to make contact. Offsides are determined by puck position and player position in regards to a FIXED marked line, and has nothing to do with the other team. And goals are actually scored on a regular basis. In the other sport, you have guys in sneakers, running a marathon distance just to get to half-field, absolutely no hitting else the other person will flop resulting in you getting carded, very low-scores, and offsides determined by another players position? Sorry but if the defense cheats up too far and gets caught with their pants down it shouldn't be the other teams fault. Soccer offsides is mind boggling to me. In hockey the puck must cross into the offensive area before any offensive players, but if the defense is scraping themselves off the ice then too damn bad. Add in mystery-time and all the allegations of match fixing and ugh......Soccer just feels like hockey minus all the good things that I love about hockey played at 1/4 speed.

 

[Millhouse]

I am a white male in my early 50s. Yes, I think the fan break down skews younger, but it's not like this magic cut off line. I think American football has gotten almost impossible to watch for all the commercials. If it weren't for gambling, I don't think it would be nearly so popular a sport.

Soccer is a better viewing experience, period. Two hours, not 3 1/2 (just like the length of a college basketball game versus the length of a baseball game). Two halves, not 4 quarters (again, like college hoops). But here's where it improves on the viewing experience - no time outs, 45 minutes running time per half. I love it. Fatigue is such a factor. Mental lapses and the pressure at the ends of games can be phenomenal. It can build and build.

i strongly disagree with the gambling point when it comes to football.

everyone has it backwards. football watching isn't high because of football gambing, football gambling is high because of football watching. there are lots of other sports to bet on, you can't just look at gambling on football and assume that's driving anything. it's just an effect.

what's so special about football gambling compared to any other sports gambling?

 

[Millhouse]

interesting link about home attendance for leagues outside europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_home_attendances_in_non-European_club_football

MLS competes with non european soccer crazed countries.

but i think that bolsters the point that talent will converge in champions league contenders and there's only so much interest the US is going to have in regular league games not in the US. champions league is the league now - like the world's best come to the US for NBA, NHL, MLB

if brazil has mediocre attendance for their league, how much can we expect? i have no idea what brazil tv ratings are or whether you can even compare a country where most of the people are so poor.

however popular the NBA is in China or whatever, maybe soccer can aspire to that. but i just don't see how it can compare to a game where the best of the best play here.

 

[Millhouse]

So basically we wait 2 hours for 1 team to get tired enough to screw up? Not my thing. To you guys who love it, more power to you. I love the NHL but I understand many others don't. The big problem I think is the similarities and differences in the 2 sports for me. Both games share the same idea of using something other than your hands to put an object into a net with a goalie standing between you and glory. In one sport, you have guys on skates moving very fast in a very condensed area. They wear pads and are allowed to make contact. Offsides are determined by puck position and player position in regards to a FIXED marked line, and has nothing to do with the other team. And goals are actually scored on a regular basis. In the other sport, you have guys in sneakers, running a marathon distance just to get to half-field, absolutely no hitting else the other person will flop resulting in you getting carded, very low-scores, and offsides determined by another players position? Sorry but if the defense cheats up too far and gets caught with their pants down it shouldn't be the other teams fault. Soccer offsides is mind boggling to me. In hockey the puck must cross into the offensive area before any offensive players, but if the defense is scraping themselves off the ice then too damn bad. Add in mystery-time and all the allegations of match fixing and ugh...Soccer just feels like hockey minus all the good things that I love about hockey played at 1/4 speed.

you're not trying hard to criticize hockey.

i love hockey but

scoring is way down, massive head trauma is way up, half the goals that do get scored are throw the puck at the net and hope it gets a favorable bounce of a padded balloon knot.

soccer offsides is not that difficult. you can't be behind the defense when the ball is passed to you. if you really can't comprehend it, i think you're being stubborn. soccer fans can just as easily say what is roughing, what is in

 

[Pyle]

you're not trying hard to criticize hockey.

i love hockey but

scoring is way down, massive head trauma is way up, half the goals that do get scored are throw the puck at the net and hope it gets a favorable bounce of a padded balloon knot.

soccer offsides is not that difficult. you can't be behind the defense when the ball is passed to you. if you really can't comprehend it, i think you're being stubborn. soccer fans can just as easily say what is roughing, what is in

Avg goals per NHL game 2014 was 5.3 = approx 1 goal every 11 min

Avg goals per WC game in 2010 was 2.3 = approx 1 goal every 39 min

As for offside, I understand the rule, I just don't like it. Let's say you're a striker, streaking down the sideline but the defense knows you are going to beat them so lets up before the pass is made. The fact that the defense can make you be offsides by essentially quitting on the play is crazy. Roughing doesn't happen because somebody quits on the play it's because they got mauled.

As for the garbage goals in hockey you are referring to, I don't see any difference between those and the corner kicks where 10 guys jump in the air hoping the ball will bounce off their noggin and go in the net.

 

[djcon57]

what's so special about football gambling compared to any other sports gambling?

All the games are on Sunday (or Monday...and Thurs, which I still think is a REAL bad idea by the NFL)...all your betting needs are finished in a neat one day window.

Which ideally could work for Soccer as well, but Soccer is kind of weird (like baseball) it's easier to say who wins or loses vs goal spreads.

 

[Millhouse]

All the games are on Sunday (or Monday...and Thurs, which I still think is a REAL bad idea by the NFL)...all your betting needs are finished in a neat one day window.

Which ideally could work for Soccer as well, but Soccer is kind of weird (like baseball) it's easier to say who wins or loses vs goal spreads.

other sports play on weekends too. bet on the weekend baseball and hockey games and ignore the weekday ones if you don't want to bet that much

 

[Millhouse]

Avg goals per NHL game 2014 was 5.3 = approx 1 goal every 11 min

Avg goals per WC game in 2010 was 2.3 = approx 1 goal every 39 min

As for offside, I understand the rule, I just don't like it. Let's say you're a striker, streaking down the sideline but the defense knows you are going to beat them so lets up before the pass is made. The fact that the defense can make you be offsides by essentially quitting on the play is crazy. Roughing doesn't happen because somebody quits on the play it's because they got mauled.

As for the garbage goals in hockey you are referring to, I don't see any difference between those and the corner kicks where 10 guys jump in the air hoping the ball will bounce off their noggin and go in the net.

not really worth discussing this with you if you don't see the difference between intentional skilled headers and random bounces in hockey. headers are like stick deflections which take tremendous skill.

there are own goals in soccer and some deflections but way fewer than in hockey

 

[IthacaMatt]

i strongly disagree with the gambling point when it comes to football.

everyone has it backwards. football watching isn't high because of football gambing, football gambling is high because of football watching. there are lots of other sports to bet on, you can't just look at gambling on football and assume that's driving anything. it's just an effect.

what's so special about football gambling compared to any other sports gambling?

It's more part of the cultural fabric compared to other sports. It starts with those parlay slips that they used to circulate at factory jobs every week. It continues with your friends, none of whom you would necessarily say is a "bookie", but in fact is taking bets. I had a friend who passed away a couple years ago who made his living as a bookie for about 25 years professionally, after he retired from his regular job in his mid-50s. He got way more action on NFL and college football than any other sport.

Baseball had a surprising number of betters because people ride the hot pitcher. Basketball, especially college, is full of big plays on off-the-radar games between mid-majors, usually with lines moving because of injuries or suspensions to key players who you never really heard of.

 

[Millhouse]

It's more part of the cultural fabric compared to other sports. It starts with those parlay slips that they used to circulate at factory jobs every week. It continues with your friends, none of whom you would necessarily say is a "bookie", but in fact is taking bets. I had a friend who passed away a couple years ago who made his living as a bookie for about 25 years professionally, after he retired from his regular job in his mid-50s. He got way more action on NFL and college football than any other sport.

Baseball had a surprising number of betters because people ride the hot pitcher. Basketball, especially college, is full of big plays on off-the-radar games between mid-majors, usually with lines moving because of injuries or suspensions to key players who you never really heard of.

i'm saying football gets action because people like football more

 

[xc84]

This thread is still going? I forgot soccer existed already.

The longer this thread goes, the more soccer reminds me of Rutgers.

 

[Pyle]

not really worth discussing this with you if you don't see the difference between intentional skilled headers and random bounces in hockey. headers are like stick deflections which take tremendous skill.

there are own goals in soccer and some deflections but way fewer than in hockey

I thought you were refering to stick deflections before to be honest. Most other deflections go wide of the net, every once in a while it goes in off a skate or something but either it goes in clean or gets deflected by a stick. I am going to save you and anyone else the trouble though...you are 100% correct when you said it's not worth discussing with me. I don't like soccer, this thread won't change that, and it's pretty arrogant of me or anyone else to tell others why they shouldn't enjoy any sport. If it gets you excited then have at it, life's to short to care what anyone else thinks. I got into this discussion because I'm bored. If this same discussion was going on in a month I would not care at all as I'd be way more into discussing what's going on in camp. Carry on soccer lovers, I'm done with the soccer talk.

 

[Millhouse]

I thought you were refering to stick deflections before to be honest. Most other deflections go wide of the net, every once in a while it goes in off a skate or something but either it goes in clean or gets deflected by a stick. I am going to save you and anyone else the trouble though...you are 100% correct when you said it's not worth discussing with me. I don't like soccer, this thread won't change that, and it's pretty arrogant of me or anyone else to tell others why they shouldn't enjoy any sport. If it gets you excited then have at it, life's to short to care what anyone else thinks. I got into this discussion because I'm bored. If this same discussion was going on in a month I would not care at all as I'd be way more into discussing what's going on in camp. Carry on soccer lovers, I'm done with the soccer talk.

maybe i should've said chocolate starfish instead of balloon knot

 

[Bayside44]

other sports play on weekends too. bet on the weekend baseball and hockey games and ignore the weekday ones if you don't want to bet that much

Fantasy football. I don't play it and I feel like the only person who doesn't.

 

[CanadianSU]

This thread should be put down! Almost football season...!

 

[Millhouse]

Fantasy football. I don't play it and I feel like the only person who doesn't.

fantasy football is like family guy. i hate it and people try way hard to convince me that i really would like it if i gave it a chance.

i like watching teams that exist. i don't understand watching teams that exist to derive some weird score for a team that doesn't exist

 

[Scooch]

fantasy football is like family guy. i hate it and people try way hard to convince me that i really would like it if i gave it a chance.

i like watching teams that exist. i don't understand watching teams that exist to derive some weird score for a team that doesn't exist

It's a chance to win money and humiliate your friends.

What's to understand?

 

[jekelish]

This thread should be put down! Almost football season...!

No one is forcing you to read it. Don't try to force people to stop engaging in conversation that you don't need to actually pay attention to.

 

[jekelish]

It's a chance to win money and humiliate your friends.

What's to understand?

There's that, but also for me, it gives me a rooting interest in virtually every game. I'd never pay attention to, say, a Rams game, but I have Zac Stacy as one of my RB's so I'm going to actually check it out to see how my player is doing.

 

[CanadianSU]

No one is forcing you to read it. Don't try to force people to stop engaging in conversation that you don't need to actually pay attention to.

Ok

 

[KaiserUEO]

It's a chance to win money and humiliate your friends.

What's to understand?

tru dat.

its gambling light. depending on payouts and fees, you basically bet a total of $100 over 16weeks to win say $750.

and if you do a live draft, that can be pretty fun too.

having a rooting interest in other players does make game watching more exciting when your 'real team' isnt playing.

fantasy football participants > madden & the playstation-nation

 

[rrlbees]

. and if you do a live draft, that can be pretty fun too.

Would that be a straight draft or a snake?