Death by defense

[pearl31]

Of the 19 games SU has played thus far, they've held 11 teams to fewer than 60 points—including the last 7 games.
Only 2 teams (Fordham and Cal) have scored 70+ on SU this season.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Of the 19 games SU has played thus far, they've held 11 teams to fewer than 60 points—including the last 7 games.
Only 2 teams (Fordham and Cal) have scored 70+ on SU this season.

And if we keep doing that we're going to be a really tough out in spite of our offense. If and when we play 40 minutes of good basketball, we'll be unbeatable...

 

[jordoo]

And if we keep doing that we're going to be a really tough out in spite of our offense. If and when we play 40 minutes of good basketball, we'll be unbeatable...

The demise of our offense has been greatly exaggerated and infact it doesn't exist. Look at the numbers.

 

[SoBristol]

We do play well on defense, but the scoring stat is affected by our own deliberate play on offense. There aren't many possessions in our games.

 

[jordoo]

I think both our offense and our defense can get better. The reality is that in close games both have been at their best down the stretch. I also think being able to play at a slower pace is an advantage against plenty of teams who will get impatient after a period of slower style play.

 

[CusefanATL]

And if we keep doing that we're going to be a really tough out in spite of our offense. If and when we play 40 minutes of good basketball, we'll be unbeatable...

seems odd to call the #2 team a "tough out"

but if we play 40 minutes of good basketball... i agree we're unbeatable. We're 19-0 and havent played more than 25 minutes of good basketball yet.

 

[ImperialOrange]

seems odd to call the #2 team a "tough out"

but if we play 40 minutes of good basketball... i agree we're unbeatable. We're 19-0 and havent played more than 25 minutes of good basketball yet.

We played the final 32 minutes against Nova and outscored them 71-37 or something absurd like that.

 

[AZOrange]

Of the 19 games SU has played thus far, they've held 11 teams to fewer than 60 points—including the last 7 games.
Only 2 teams (Fordham and Cal) have scored 70+ on SU this season.

We also rebounded like crazy yesterday

 

[Coach Orange]

I think both our offense and our defense can get better. The reality is that in close games both have been at their best down the stretch. I also think being able to play at a slower pace is an advantage against plenty of teams who will get impatient after a period of slower style play.

You're right, jordoo--there is definitely room to improve. The team won't stop practicing between now and March--the assumption is that this practice isn't a waste of time.

There's no reason to believe that G and Roberson can't increase their productivity through hard work over the next 5-6 weeks. Players often produce more by March than they do in January. If one or both of these young men do, it will help the other players.

For example, if Roberson can enter games and fulfill a legitimate role, Fair and Grant can get a little more rest, we can absorb more foul trouble (I don't even want to think about injuries), and defenses may not be able to sag off of him to help on others. Nothing suggests that Roberson is incapable of improvement, so there's a solid chance that we could see this happen.

The good news is that G and Roberson don't need to be stars this year--just effective in their time on the floor. They can't merely take up space in their minutes, though; they have to be effective on both ends for the squad to reach its full potential. I'm interested to see if they step up to the challenge. If one or both do, the team will definitely improve...hopefully enough to carry us to the Final Four.

 

[SBU72]

I think both our offense and our defense can get better. The reality is that in close games both have been at their best down the stretch. I also think being able to play at a slower pace is an advantage against plenty of teams who will get impatient after a period of slower style play.

I have started to believe the "switch" to a half court offense is deliberate. Past teams that relied on fast breaks and up tempo offense had a hardtime when thye had to go to a half court like at the end of the half or late in the game when SU ws trying to run clock. This year the team seems more efficient when thay have to do that and that helps whenteams slow things way down.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Did someone say Tee shirt?

 

[RF2044]

You're right, jordoo--there is definitely room to improve. The team won't stop practicing between now and March--the assumption is that this practice isn't a waste of time.

There's no reason to believe that G and Roberson can't increase their productivity through hard work over the next 5-6 weeks. Players often produce more by March than they do in January. If one or both of these young men do, it will help the other players.

For example, if Roberson can enter games and fulfill a legitimate role, Fair and Grant can get a little more rest, we can absorb more foul trouble (I don't even want to think about injuries), and defenses may not be able to sag off of him to help on others. Nothing suggests that Roberson is incapable of improvement, so there's a solid chance that we could see this happen.

The good news is that G and Roberson don't need to be stars this year--just effective in their time on the floor. They can't merely take up space in their minutes, though; they have to be effective on both ends for the squad to reach its full potential. I'm interested to see if they step up to the challenge. If one or both do, the team will definitely improve...hopefully enough to carry us to the Final Four.

Those are big ifs, coach. Would love to see it happen for both players. But my expectation is that the best we can hope for this year is spot contributions from either of them. A few minutes where they don't hurt us in other words, enabling JB to rotate starters out for a quick blow.

On his first defensive possession yesterday, Roberson snared a nice rebound after a box out--that's the type of thing I'd really like to see more of. Don't worry about scoring unless an opportunity too good to pass up presents itself. Concentrate on defense and rebounding. If Roberson does that, he'll get more minutes. For Gbinije, regain your aggressiveness defensively. Don't try to do too much with the ball. Make the basic plays. If Silent G does that, he'll regain JB's trust and get our starting backcourt a few minutes here and there of precious rest.

 

[TheCusian]

I have started to believe the "switch" to a half court offense is deliberate. Past teams that relied on fast breaks and up tempo offense had a hardtime when thye had to go to a half court like at the end of the half or late in the game when SU ws trying to run clock. This year the team seems more efficient when thay have to do that and that helps whenteams slow things way down.

Agree 1000%. Plus that seems to be how Ennis plays best. A surgeon.

 

[jordoo]

You're right, jordoo--there is definitely room to improve. The team won't stop practicing between now and March--the assumption is that this practice isn't a waste of time.

There's no reason to believe that G and Roberson can't increase their productivity through hard work over the next 5-6 weeks. Players often produce more by March than they do in January. If one or both of these young men do, it will help the other players.

For example, if Roberson can enter games and fulfill a legitimate role, Fair and Grant can get a little more rest, we can absorb more foul trouble (I don't even want to think about injuries), and defenses may not be able to sag off of him to help on others. Nothing suggests that Roberson is incapable of improvement, so there's a solid chance that we could see this happen.

The good news is that G and Roberson don't need to be stars this year--just effective in their time on the floor. They can't merely take up space in their minutes, though; they have to be effective on both ends for the squad to reach its full potential. I'm interested to see if they step up to the challenge. If one or both do, the team will definitely improve...hopefully enough to carry us to the Final Four.

Great post it seems that as fans we often give up on players 1/2 way through the season. Guys do get better especially guys who are going to be good players down the line in future seasons.

I though Roberson again showed an increased awareness on defense and is a legit rebounder right now. His bigger issue is that he seems a touch behind what he is supposed to be doing on offense. The moving screen is a perfect example. He realizes late he's supposed to be setting the screen, he gets their a tad late and then extends his arms to hold the player off while he tries to get a jump on his release. I actually think he is a much better offensive player than we have seen and its mainly a timing issue with him. I see that he is beginning to understand what he should be doing but in live action he's just a tad behind on both ends still. When shots go up and he is just rebounding he looks great the rest of the time he's thinking before acting and thus the timing is lagging behind a hair. Maybe I'm being too hopeful or positive as a fan but I think he's going to just get it at some point and be that 2nd frontcourt bench player we need.

Mike G is in a tough new role after a season sitting out. His defense is good and I think his offense is hindered by playing on the ball when Ennis sits. He's been an off the ball offensive player his whole career now he is on the ball and trying to be a set up man. Still he's done some good things it just feels like the offense gets out of sink when he is in. I think he needs to learn from Tyler that most times its the normal move the ball to the open guy pass that is the right play.

 

[jordoo]

I have started to believe the "switch" to a half court offense is deliberate. Past teams that relied on fast breaks and up tempo offense had a hardtime when thye had to go to a half court like at the end of the half or late in the game when SU ws trying to run clock. This year the team seems more efficient when thay have to do that and that helps whenteams slow things way down.

Undoubtedly it was recognized as a strength early on and it seems the staff has looked to not only utilize it but build it up even more.

 

[jordoo]

Those are big ifs, coach. Would love to see it happen for both players. But my expectation is that the best we can hope for this year is spot contributions from either of them. A few minutes where they don't hurt us in other words, enabling JB to rotate starters out for a quick blow.

On his first defensive possession yesterday, Roberson snared a nice rebound after a box out--that's the type of thing I'd really like to see more of. Don't worry about scoring unless an opportunity too good to pass up presents itself. Concentrate on defense and rebounding. If Roberson does that, he'll get more minutes. For Gbinije, regain your aggressiveness defensively. Don't try to do too much with the ball. Make the basic plays. If Silent G does that, he'll regain JB's trust and get our starting backcourt a few minutes here and there of precious rest.

This is exactly why I think both can earn more time. They don't need to do things they aren't ready to. MikeG is already good on defense but he needs to concentrate on just making the open pass when Ennis sits and keeping the ball moving. The hard part for him I think is switching between that and being more aggressive off the ball when Cooney sits. I believe its a timing thinking issue for Roberson at this point which you don't have to do once a shot is in the air and thus he looks good rebounding.

 

[Coach Orange]

I have started to believe the "switch" to a half court offense is deliberate. Past teams that relied on fast breaks and up tempo offense had a hardtime when thye had to go to a half court like at the end of the half or late in the game when SU ws trying to run clock. This year the team seems more efficient when thay have to do that and that helps whenteams slow things way down.

Ennis seems to have plenty to do with this. Some players are just more comfortable playing one style rather than another. TE operates more fluidly in the half court with his probing, methodical style at the moment.

Though the team does go through some offensive droughts, it's rare that it doesn't get good looks in the half court over a series of consecutive possessions--sometimes the guys just don't finish or they miss free throws, which makes the offense look "bad." As your post points out, the team executes best when it has to, and Ennis's command in the half court is central to that effectiveness.

This doesn't mean Ennis can't run the fast break effectively now, nor that he will never be comfortable in transition. At the moment, though, that doesn't seem to be what he favors, and our offense has become more half-court oriented as a result.

 

[Coach Orange]

Those are big ifs, coach. Would love to see it happen for both players. But my expectation is that the best we can hope for this year is spot contributions from either of them. A few minutes where they don't hurt us in other words, enabling JB to rotate starters out for a quick blow.

On his first defensive possession yesterday, Roberson snared a nice rebound after a box out--that's the type of thing I'd really like to see more of. Don't worry about scoring unless an opportunity too good to pass up presents itself. Concentrate on defense and rebounding. If Roberson does that, he'll get more minutes. For Gbinije, regain your aggressiveness defensively. Don't try to do too much with the ball. Make the basic plays. If Silent G does that, he'll regain JB's trust and get our starting backcourt a few minutes here and there of precious rest.

You just described my version of "being effective" in their roles.

 

[Knicks411]

The offense continues to rank higher at Pomeroy, as it has pretty much all year. Our games are brutally slow; in ACC play we haven't had one game go over 60 possessions.

 

[LennX6]

The demise of our offense has been greatly exaggerated and infact it doesn't exist. Look at the numbers.

That's the part I don't get. This is the first year in a long time that I feel we really know what we are doing in a half court offense. In the past when our offense was an issue, we would pass the ball around the perimeter and then jack up a wild shot. Now it is rare that we ever get a bad look. Ever.
Plus the numbers back up how efficient we are.
There are a lot of offensive rebounds in our games, many time multiple off rebound per possession.
Most of those rebounds result in another fully utilized 35 seconds. That right there is one of the cornerstones of the 40-60 pt games.

 

[SBU72]

Ennis seems to have plenty to do with this. Some players are just more comfortable playing one style rather than another. TE operates more fluidly in the half court with his probing, methodical style at the moment.

Though the team does go through some offensive droughts, it's rare that it doesn't get good looks in the half court over a series of consecutive possessions--sometimes the guys just don't finish or they miss free throws, which makes the offense look "bad." As your post points out, the team executes best when it has to, and Ennis's command in the half court is central to that effectiveness.

This doesn't mean Ennis can't run the fast break effectively now, nor that he will never be comfortable in transition. At the moment, though, that doesn't seem to be what he favors, and our offense has become more half-court oriented as a result.

I also think that the emergence of Xmas as an offensive threat has helped. Him making a couple of those hooks and even a couple of the drives he's had improves the half court offense.

 

[jordoo]

That's the part I don't get. This is the first year in a long time that I feel we really know what we are doing in a half court offense. In the past when our offense was an issue, we would pass the ball around the perimeter and then jack up a wild shot. Now it is rare that we ever get a bad look. Ever.
Plus the numbers back up how efficient we are.
There are a lot of offensive rebounds in our games, many time multiple off rebound per possession.
Most of those rebounds result in another fully utilized 35 seconds. That right there is one of the cornerstones of the 40-60 pt games.

Word! Like I said its simply untrue that our offense isn't good. As Coach Orange indicated above even in our droughts we often execute well and either miss shots or FT's. The one time I get frustrated is like yesterday with 3-4 turnovers in a row and no shots. But when you only have 5 to's on the game even that is hard to get upset about for long.

 

[LennX6]

Word! Like I said its simply untrue that our offense isn't good. As Coach Orange indicated above even in our droughts we often execute well and either miss shots or FT's. The one time I get frustrated is like yesterday with 3-4 turnovers in a row and no shots. But when you only have 5 to's on the game even that is hard to get upset about for long.

I remember the teams in the '90s that would have 21 TO in a game and still won.

 

[jordoo]

I remember the teams in the '90s that would have 21 TO in a game and still won.

21 would be crushing in a 60 possession game like we are playing these days. ouch.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Like Coach and others have said we are getting good shots usually but just taking awhile to do so. Ennis seems to probe and use up most of the shot clock. We're just not used to seeing this. It's like we're a classic Wisconsin style tempo team now.