Defense

[Orangezoo]

Reaching new lows. Per Ken Pom adjD is now ranked 223. Offense still a rock solid 17th. 223?!

 

[rpmfla]

Reaching new lows. Per Ken Pom adjD is now ranked 223. Offense still a rock solid 17th. 223?!

I'm not a hard core analytics person but have watched nearly all Syracuse games for the last 10 years or so and I feel that playing only zone defense in today's 3 point shooting era is no longer effective. Yes, against teams that have never faced zone or that have little time to prepare for it (or are poor shooting teams) it can still be effective. However, for teams that know it well or can prepare for it, it is no longer as effective as it once was. If an opponent has good 3 pt. shooters, the zone has to extend out further, making it vulnerable to baseline and lob passes for easy buckets. Conversely, if the zone packs into the lane to defend dominant bigs it leaves the perimeter open. Plus there is the obvious weakness of the zone when it comes to rebounding. Because of this, I am looking forward to the end of the Boeheim era and hope the next coach is less dogmatic and firmly tied to only one way of doing things.

 

[Orangezoo]

I'm not a hard core analytics person but have watched nearly all Syracuse games for the last 10 years or so and I feel that playing only zone defense in today's 3 point shooting era is no longer effective. Yes, against teams that have never faced zone or that have little time to prepare for it (or are poor shooting teams) it can still be effective. However, for teams that know it well or can prepare for it, it is no longer as effective as it once was. If an opponent has good 3 pt. shooters, the zone has to extend out further, making it vulnerable to baseline and lob passes for easy buckets. Conversely, if the zone packs into the lane to defend dominant bigs it leaves the perimeter open. Plus there is the obvious weakness of the zone when it comes to rebounding. Because of this, I am looking forward to the end of the Boeheim era and hope the next coach is less dogmatic and firmly tied to only one way of doing things.

Yep. Many folks have called this out over the last few years myself included but it may not be more ever-present than today.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I'm not a hard core analytics person but have watched nearly all Syracuse games for the last 10 years or so and I feel that playing only zone defense in today's 3 point shooting era is no longer effective. Yes, against teams that have never faced zone or that have little time to prepare for it (or are poor shooting teams) it can still be effective. However, for teams that know it well or can prepare for it, it is no longer as effective as it once was. If an opponent has good 3 pt. shooters, the zone has to extend out further, making it vulnerable to baseline and lob passes for easy buckets. Conversely, if the zone packs into the lane to defend dominant bigs it leaves the perimeter open. Plus there is the obvious weakness of the zone when it comes to rebounding. Because of this, I am looking forward to the end of the Boeheim era and hope the next coach is less dogmatic and firmly tied to only one way of doing things.

Without getting to deep into things, I looked at the overall averages (which controls for different defenses) for three point shooting in D1 (i'd like to narrow it down to P5 conference games, but I don't have the time to manually separate them) and generally the number of shots taken per game and shooting percentage hasn't really changed over the last 10-15 seasons. However, that doesn't mean there aren't more capable shooters on the floor or that the really good shooters are better. Or the good teams are more capable of breaking the zone.

Personally, I've felt the zone defense can be elite with less than perfect defenders (and still can), but the problem is that it needs specific types of players the ones with the NBA size and good basketball skills are in short supply and generally end up at Kentucky, Duke, KU, Arizona, etc and not at SU. Boeheim has to balance either tall lanky players with NBA bodies who aren't great basketball players (e.g., Chukwu, Frank Howard, etc.) or you get guys with basketball skill but don't meet the physical requirements for the zone (e.g., JG3). There's a reason most of 350 teams in D1 play man and not zone because they're not restricted to a type of player. Maybe, I don't know. just a thought. But it's not because the zone can't work in the P5.

Kihei Clark, for example, is a good man defender, but he's 5'10" with lifts in his shoes and wouldn't be as good in the zone as someone who's 6'4 or 6'5". (this year maybe not)

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Without getting to deep into things, I looked at the overall averages (which controls for different defenses) for three point shooting in D1 (i'd like to narrow it down to P5 conference games, but I don't have the time to manually separate them) and generally the number of shots taken per game and shooting percentage hasn't really changed over the last 10-15 seasons. However, that doesn't mean there aren't more capable shooters on the floor or that the really good shooters are better. Or the good teams are more capable of breaking the zone.

Personally, I've felt the zone defense can be elite with less than perfect defenders (and still can), but the problem is that it needs specific types of players the ones with the NBA size and good basketball skills are in short supply and generally end up at Kentucky, Duke, KU, Arizona, etc and not at SU. Boeheim has to balance either tall lanky players with NBA bodies who aren't great basketball players (e.g., Chukwu, Frank Howard, etc.) or you get guys with basketball skill but don't meet the physical requirements for the zone (e.g., JG3). There's a reason most of 350 teams in D1 play man and not zone because they're restricted to a type of player. Maybe, I don't know. just a thought. But it's not because the zone can't work in the P5.

Kihei Clark, for example, is a good man defender, but he's 5'10" with lifts in his shoes and wouldn't be as good in the zone as someone who's 6'4 or 6'5". (this year maybe not)

And UVM has a kid playing forward/center who is 6'8" and 250 pounds who is currently shooting 53% from the floor and 42.6% from three. Not saying he's a P5 talent, but he was the player of the year last year for the America East and is in contention to repeat. And our center can't hit a 15 footer.

 

[ar inj]

And UVM has a kid playing forward/center who is 6'8" and 250 pounds who is currently shooting 53% from the floor and 42.6% from three. Not saying he's a P5 talent, but he was the player of the year last year for the America East and is in contention to repeat. And our center can't hit a 15 footer.

But he can block his corner three (some of the time)

 

[CuseFaninVT]

But he can block his corner three (some of the time)

He's actually a pretty good defender. And he's smart. Not as long as Jesse obviously.

That team I think would give us fits. Tenacious defense, and they've been shooting ridiculously from three lately. Last couple games - as a team - 46.4% - 63.3% (hit 19 of 30 and set a school record).

 

[Manleymen]

Our guards MUST jump to the 3 point shooter hard on every shot, challenge the shot and do it with a sense of urgency. I'd rather have them foul the shooter out of shear hustle once in awhile than not contesting the shot. If they do this with the same fervor on offense in finding individual shots - then we will win many more games.

 

[newmexicuse]

The ball moves faster than do players, especially against players that are not great athletes, so that gets compounded with our current roster.

That is the basic problem with the Zone in this day and age.

Add in that every team has multiple players who can hit at a 35 to 40% rate from trey range when given good looks and the Zone is an out moded D.

Sure, there will be games (first FSU game eg) when opponents are stone cold or games when opponents dont know how to attack a Zone effectively, but those games are becoming fewer and fewer in the modern game.

Some on this board have referred to Jimmy in the past as dino-coach. That is no longer even correct, now it is fossil coach, sorry to say.

 

[rpmfla]

I think the zone can still work in the right situations but using it exclusively...except when they get down double digits and have to try pressing...doesn't seem to work anymore. Boeheim is beyond stubborn so there is no way he will change. He will continue to put the blame on the players inability, not on his own scheme.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Obviously zone can still work, just 3 years ago it was pretty solid. But the consistency of it now ties in heavily to personnel and other team’s makeup. The room for error is smaller.

 

[Ozone!]

 

[Niastri]

Reaching new lows. Per Ken Pom adjD is now ranked 223. Offense still a rock solid 17th. 223?!

This stat actually gives me hope. We have two starters at forward who had never played in the 2-3 previously.

I think we are who we are as an offensive team, not much will change unless Benny Williams suddenly takes minutes from Swider or JB3.

On the other hand, we have often seen the team player better team defense as the year goes on, and the biggest improvement can come from experienced guys tightening their D just a little bit.

One extra steal, one extra rebound and one extra forced missed shot per game out of the forward positions, and we are looking at a ranked team!