Defensive Philosophy

[Brooky03]

What is Red's m2m defensive philosophy?

I've only caught pieces of the first two games; I've mostly just been able to follow the ESPN gamecasts. I'm genuinely curious what the tentpoles of his version of m2m are, if that's known.

 

[CardiacCuse]

not sure...but if the opponent beats the guy covering him, its been pretty much wide open layup/dunk

help defense seems non-existent...and needs to improve a lot

 

[GardenOrange]

The concept of help man to man is not evident so far. We had no answers for simple pick and roll plays as both of our defenders guarded the ball and nobody went with the guy going to the hoop after setting the pick. Canisius was good at finding the roll guy and feeding him for some easy baskets.

Wish we could run our pick and roll better and hit the guy rolling for more lay ups because it was there many times. This seems to be a holdover problem from the last 5-6 years. The pick is only actually set about 40% of the time and the point guard on the ball seems unable or unwilling to pass to the big guy rolling to the basket unencumbered 90% of the time.

 

[jordoo]

not sure...but if the opponent beats the guy covering him, its been pretty much wide open layup/dunk

help defense seems non-existent...and needs to improve a lot

And the primary defender seems to be defending as if there is help defense. I'm fuzzy on the overall strategy but much of that could be poor execution in a new system. Its also possible that Red is holding parts of the defense back until Maui to avoid scouting.

 

[FrancoPizza]

It’s also possible that Red is holding parts of the defense back until Maui to avoid scouting.

highly doubtful.

 

[mark79]

There is definitely a lot of switching around picks but I agree that sometimes a guard thinks he has help in the lane and there is none. It is starting to get a little better however we definitely miss Benny's weak side shot blocking.

 

[Orangezoo]

Honestly it's looked to me like we are trying to work on a version of the pack line paired with pressure mtm at times with picking up at half court and then mixing in zone after out of bounds plays. So far when executed the pack like with guards switching up top has been OK for stretches. The pressure mtm got burnt on the pnr a few times.

We definitely were funneling guys to Naheem more last night which he did a good job plugging things up while we stayed tight on shooters most of the game but rebounding was not good going that route.

 

[CardiacCuse]

The concept of help man to man is not evident so far. We had no answers for simple pick and roll plays as both of our defenders guarded the ball and nobody went with the guy going to the hoop after setting the pick. Canisius was good at finding the roll guy and feeding him for some easy baskets.

Wish we could run our pick and roll better and hit the guy rolling for more lay ups because it was there many times. This seems to be a holdover problem from the last 5-6 years. The pick is only actually set about 40% of the time and the point guard on the ball seems unable or unwilling to pass to the big guy rolling to the basket unencumbered 90% of the time.

i was thinking the lack of help might be a hangover from the zone

defenders need to be able to react without thinking...but some of these situations where no one reacts seem too obvious that something needs to be done ...but nothing...

perhaps the coaches need to go over with the players what to prioritize in the defensive system for each player

1. no uncontested dunks/layups
2. no uncontested 3s

 

[texascpa]

Its also possible that Red is holding parts of the defense back until Maui to avoid scouting.

Wait, did I make a turn into a Babers holding offense back thread?

 

[Wrinkle]

I'm confident we have the pieces to be a good offense by season's end but idk about this defense

 

[andyw715]

Run around and try to get in the way when possible.

 

[Sherman20]

I thought we had good activity and played tight man to man for the first 10 minutes or so, but then the on ball defense slackened and the help defense was always a step too slow. We have quick athletes and should be able to play good defense this season. It’s up to Red and Griff and the staff to teach them all the nitty gritty details that they need to know, to prepare the guys for each team, and for the players too have a laser-light focus on every possession and execute. At times, they look like they’re going through the motions.

 

[upperdeck]

Our issue on D is often that they forget you don't just guard the guy with the ball. Guys lose positioning and then next thing you know they are chasing the play.

When you combine that with such sluggish sliding of the feet it leads to bad D.

The upside is that we scored 80+ with at best C level offense just because we picked up the pace of play a bit. Its not like we are getting a ton more shots off than last year though.

Not every team is going to shoot 45% from 3 no matter how wide open they are.

 

[tbonezone]

Defensive Philosophy​

 

[007]

Honestly it's looked to me like we are trying to work on a version of the pack line paired with pressure mtm at times with picking up at half court and then mixing in zone after out of bounds plays. So far when executed the pack like with guards switching up top has been OK for stretches. The pressure mtm got burnt on the pnr a few times.

We definitely were funneling guys to Naheem more last night which he did a good job plugging things up while we stayed tight on shooters most of the game but rebounding was not good going that route.

It's possible, but I don't think they were trying to play "pack line" defense at any point. One of the biggest keys to pack line is it emphasizes help defense and takes away penetration. As you've seen, those are weaknesses for this team. More than that, the positioning of the defenders has not been lane dependent. They are defending based on where the man they are guarding is positioned. It has been plain vanilla basic M2M concepts so far.

The team defense concept is a process and right now the execution is generally poor, especially the help rotations. That needs to get much better quickly because it will get really exposed in Hawaii. Red has mentioned that there is much more implementation to come. Let's hope so.

 

[cusefan88]

Biggest difference is that it's obvious the team has room to grow and improve. They can get better...much better.

 

[AZOrange]

Keep the ball in front of the defender is the philosophy.

 

[mark79]

It's possible, but I don't think they were trying to play "pack line" defense at any point. One of the biggest keys to pack line is it emphasizes help defense and takes away penetration. As you've seen, those are weaknesses for this team. More than that, the positioning of the defenders has not been lane dependent. They are defending based on where the man they are guarding is positioned. It has been plain vanilla basic M2M concepts so far.

The team defense concept is a process and right now the execution is generally poor, especially the help rotations. That needs to get much better quickly because it will get really exposed in Hawaii. Red has mentioned that there is much more implementation to come. Let's hope so.

Agree. The pack line defense requires total commitment of all players on defense with no weak links. Everyone is jumping all around hedging off and getting back to their spots and it takes a lot of disciple. Not unlike Boeheim’s zone, I’m thinking it would take several years for Red to master and then teach effectively.

Pack Line Defense - The Complete Guide

The Pack Line defense is a 'team' defense and can be implemented on any level. From youth basketball all the way to the NBA. 2,500+ word coaching guide.

www.basketballforcoaches.com

 

[007]

Agree. The pack line defense requires total commitment of all players on defense with no weak links. Everyone is jumping all around hedging off and getting back to their spots and it takes a lot of disciple. Not unlike Boeheim’s zone, I’m thinking it would take several years for Red to master and then teach effectively.

Pack Line Defense - The Complete Guide

The Pack Line defense is a 'team' defense and can be implemented on any level. From youth basketball all the way to the NBA. 2,500+ word coaching guide.

www.basketballforcoaches.com

All true. I just don't think Red is going to play any version pack line defense.

 

[grepal]

not sure...but if the opponent beats the guy covering him, its been pretty much wide open layup/dunk

help defense seems non-existent...and needs to improve a lot

M2M needs a lot of work.

 

[djcon57]

My main complaint so far would be I’d just like Judah to get back. No need for the “pressure” when he’s getting burned by mediocre to below average players. It’s going to be a mess if he does that to an actual good pg. It’s causing for help immediately. Just not necessary

 

[Orangezoo]

It's possible, but I don't think they were trying to play "pack line" defense at any point. One of the biggest keys to pack line is it emphasizes help defense and takes away penetration. As you've seen, those are weaknesses for this team. More than that, the positioning of the defenders has not been lane dependent. They are defending based on where the man they are guarding is positioned. It has been plain vanilla basic M2M concepts so far.

The team defense concept is a process and right now the execution is generally poor, especially the help rotations. That needs to get much better quickly because it will get really exposed in Hawaii. Red has mentioned that there is much more implementation to come. Let's hope so.

That's fair - I didn't see the pack line as to how UVA plays it but it did resemble a bit of how Dayton played it when Griff was there where there was a defined effort to clog driving lanes at times. It's not been easy to sort out the exact plan but without a doubt, whether intentional or not(hopefully not just missed assignments or confusion), it's looked like several different mtm concepts that we've seen deployed out there from the exhibitions through the first two games.

 

[Orangezoo]

My main complaint so far would be I’d just like Judah to get back. No need for the “pressure” when he’s getting burned by mediocre to below average players. It’s going to be a mess if he does that to an actual good pg. It’s causing for help immediately. Just not necessary

Yeah that specifically has been really frustrating

 

[Niastri]

Agree. The pack line defense requires total commitment of all players on defense with no weak links. Everyone is jumping all around hedging off and getting back to their spots and it takes a lot of disciple. Not unlike Boeheim’s zone, I’m thinking it would take several years for Red to master and then teach effectively.

Pack Line Defense - The Complete Guide

The Pack Line defense is a 'team' defense and can be implemented on any level. From youth basketball all the way to the NBA. 2,500+ word coaching guide.

www.basketballforcoaches.com

Is there any evidence from any source that Red is trying to implement this defense?

I'm not being snarky, I just don't want to spend many hours out of my day becoming a "Pack Line Man to Man Defense" expert (in my own head at least) only to find out we're playing something else.

 

[Orangezoo]

Is there any evidence from any source that Red is trying to implement this defense?

I'm not being snarky, I just don't want to spend many hours out of my day becoming a "Pack Line Man to Man Defense" expert (in my own head at least) only to find out we're playing something else.

No evidence just was a quick share of trying to translate what I've seen on the floor and knowing Griff has experience with it. To date there hasn't been any real defensive philosophy shared from Red other than we play mtm as our base and use the zone at times too.