Deliverance and WVU

[PeteCalvin]

Personally, I love banjo in my music.

I have a fever. And the only medicine is MORE BANJO!

 

[690West]

At least three of them do not know what racism is (all sic'd):
I consider it to be RACISM...

Clearly, the dueling banjos was to mock WVians, to help perpetuate a stereotype. Its a form of racism that shouldn't be tolerated.

If you can tell a hillbilly joke, you can tell a watermelon joke. Or a rabbi joke. Or a Polish joke.

Ain't no difference -- a bigot is a bigot.

I've always struggled with "the line". Why is it soooo outrageous for someone to do black-face but the red neck white country bumpkin stuff is fine? Personally I think it's all fine, but that's obviously not the case. Strange. I think it has to do with "the oppressed" vs. the non-oppressed?

 

[gocraz4dasu]

I obviously know that. It was sarcasm and a shot at the fact that between 86-90% of applicants are admitted.

Because the state of West Virginias test scores are terrible and they have to accept a certain number of kids from in-state to get state funding so they are left with those kids who just aren't cut out for school at all and just get trashed and burn coaches for a year and go back home once they fail out. Their graduation rate is trash and so is the acceptance rate because of it.

Their out of state kids and scholarship kids are probably pretty smart. They give away out-of-state scholarships like crazy

 

[StealthTurkey]

128 row Z, and I didn't see it....Coulda been the Jagerbombs though...

Honestly though, there are some WVU fans over there that don't even care. One guy says:

A West Virginian who is ashamed of the banjo or fiddle should move elsewhere.

If the events surrounding the game rather than the ACTUAL GAME are what they are concerned about, they really must be delusional about their team.

 

[NailstheCusefan12]

Because the state of West Virginias test scores is terrible and they have to accept a certain number of kids from in-state to get state funding so they are left with those kids who just aren't cut out for school at all and just get trashed and burn coaches for a year and go back home once they fail out. Their graduation rate is trash and so is the acceptance rate because of it.

Their out of state kids and scholarship kids are probably pretty smart. They give away out-of-state scholarships like crazy

That was almost the exact sense I got when I visited some friends that go there for the game last year. But in my personal experience the kids that went to WVU from my high school (in upstate NY) were those who didn't get in to the majority of the other schools they applied to. I understand this leads to a jaded perspective, but just my own personal experience. And as was mentioned earlier, grad schools are a different ball-game altogether.

 

[NKR1978]

I've always struggled with "the line". Why is it soooo outrageous for someone to do black-face but the red neck white country bumpkin stuff is fine? Personally I think it's all fine, but that's obviously not the case. Strange. I think it has to do with "the oppressed" vs. the non-oppressed?

I never would have thought the "line" needed explaining. One is racist. One is arguably classist. One is used to perpetuate the stereotype that blacks are dimwitted fools who can do a little tap dance and say "yes massa," which in turn justifies laws meant to oppress an entire group of people and paints people as less than fully human (i.e. basically drawing blacks to be a step up from primates). This provides moral cover for anti-miscegenation laws, lynching, segregation, etc. It creates an us and they.

You can't change the color of your skin. You can get a haircut and put on some decent clothes. I don't remember seeing videos of country bumpkins being set upon by dogs and fire hoses. I think that's "the line."

(This came off far more preachy than I intended, and I apologize for that - but really the dehumanization aspect of black face and minstrel shows makes the difference to me.)

 

[hungrychuck]

Sorry - they are really crying? Do they know the definition of racist? This from a school whose mascot is a "mountain man" in a coonskin cap carrying a musket and whose fans relish for being reknown for burning couches-. The entire thing is actually ironic and so funny. Guess they should be ashamed of themselves for carrying on the stereotype. It has to be a joke.

These are also fans who sold T-shirts mocking Katrina victims at the LSU game.

You stay classy, Mountaineers!

 

[690West]

I never would have thought the "line" needed explaining. One is racist. One is arguably classist. One is used to perpetuate the stereotype that blacks are dimwitted fools who can do a little tap dance and say "yes massa," which in turn justifies laws meant to oppress an entire group of people and paints people as less than fully human (i.e. basically drawing blacks to be a step up from primates). This provides moral cover for anti-miscegenation laws, lynching, segregation, etc. It creates an us and they.

You can't change the color of your skin. You can get a haircut and put on some decent clothes. I don't remember seeing videos of country bumpkins being set upon by dogs and fire hoses. I think that's "the line."

Wow. You are out of your mind. I'm ducking out of this thread. Delusional stuff going on here. Wow

 

[All4SU]

I don't know why they're upset. Deliverance was set in Georgia.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Wow. You are out of your mind. I'm ducking out of this thread. Delusional stuff going on here. Wow

I couldn't disagree more. What's so "delusional" about historical facts? "Black face" was part of institutionalized racism perpetuated at one time in every facet of life against an entire race.
"Rednecks" or country bumpkins are stereotypes, although usually associated with whites, but were NOT permeated throughout society, the legal system, voting rights, housing, etc. Thats more a class & income distinction.
You could tell jokes about Rednecks & turn your nose at 'em, but if they ever made some money & moved up in class & income status, all their rights were in place. You couldn't say that at one time for Blacks.
An analogy; What if the Beverly Hillbillies had been black- you think they would've moved into Beverly Hills from West Virginia in the 50's...without ANY problems? Don't think so- JMHO.

 

[690West]

I couldn't disagree more. What's so "delusional" about historical facts? "Black face" was part of institutionalized racism perpetuated at one time in every facet of life against an entire race.
"Rednecks" or country bumpkins are stereotypes, although usually associated with whites, but were NOT permeated throughout society, the legal system, voting rights, housing, etc. Thats more a class & income distinction.
You could tell jokes about Rednecks & turn your nose at 'em, but if they ever made some money & moved up in class & income status, all their rights were in place. You couldn't say that at one time for Blacks.
An analogy; What if the Beverly Hillbillies had been black- you think they would've moved into Beverly Hills from West Virginia in the 50's...without ANY problems? Don't think so- JMHO.

Not gonna bite, but you guys scare the heck outta me. Man Alive. I'm going to bed.

 

[NKR1978]

Wow. You are out of your mind. I'm ducking out of this thread. Delusional stuff going on here. Wow

That's fine. I didn't bother reading the wikipedia entry, but take a look at the pictures, especially under "darky iconography." I just don't know how one could objectively look at that and think of black face or minstrel shows or sambo as being no big deal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_face

 

[DoctorBombay]

Not gonna bite, but you guys scare the heck outta me. Man Alive. I'm going to bed.

Dude, not to perpetuate this issue but citing history & facts "scare" you? Really? OK...

 

[rrlbees]

Anyone know what this is about?

http://westvirginia./showmsg.asp?fid=33&tid=148884408&mid=148884408&sid=891&style=2

Did the band/dance team/cheerleaders do anything to offend the WVU fans?

Also, there are some quite racist leaning comments in that thread.

I don't know why Gross responded to the emails.

 

[arbitragegls]

most likely because Luck responded to one about his saying he would take army and navy as better in football than 'Cuse...I actually liked the fact that both responded...shows they care about their institutions and their images.
With the Mizzou and Be thing going on, I have spent some time on the At their request, this network is being blocked from this site. WVU board...got to say, aside from ours, one of the best out there...they are passionate, smart, and humorous...in fact, they arent different from Cuse at all except for a few less points on the SATs and have a funny choice of music...

 

[dinosaurbbq]

I'm from Rochester and lived there 25 years and went to college there and have been a life-long Cuse fan. I've now lived in WV for 15 years and have become a big WVU fan, as well. Unless they are playing each other, of course.

I reel against PC'ism at every turn. However, the air banjo skit is offensive. Imagine being a WVU fan who made the trip and brought the kids. It was a reminder that it doesn't matter how smart you are, where you now live, what degree you have, how professional a job you have, how much money you make or how nice a person you are. People from NY and a lot of other places will still make fun of you as a stereotypical country bumpkin who comes from a place where people are said to have sex with their sisters or cousins, to be uneducated, toothless and poor. Deliverance ruined a great song in Dueling Banjos. The trouble is, the dueling banjos skit wasn't intended to celebrate banjo music or a simpler life or any of the great things I've found out about in WV. It was specifically meant to evoke all those negative stereotypes. And the little kid that started dancing along with the banjo music got laughed at by a bunch of upstate New Yorkers that felt superior and laughed at that kid because the kid didn't realize the joke was on him. Its as classless as any demeaning joke intends to be.

Let's say SU was playing Maryland last year and the SU band did a skit referring to a coach in Maryland's colors as "Coach Fat Ass" or SU was playing Va Tech and the SU band did a skit referring to a coach in Va Tech colors as "Coach Burn Victim." No, those skits are not racist either, but they would be just as classless and offensive. The difference between racism and those other examples is that the law tells us racism is prohibited, whereas only our morality is there to tell us each example is classless and offensive.

There was a similar event during the WVU - UVA 2002 Continental Tire Bowl in Charlotte, NC. At half-time, UVA's marching band put on a skit they called the Hillbilly Dating Game or something like that. They had Bachelorette No. 1 from UVA in a classy dress who was a bio major who would be going to medical school after graduation and Bachelorette No. 2 from WVU come out in overalls and pig tails and dancing to banjo music. No jokes of sex with sisters were made, thankfully. Ultimately, the picture painted was of a UVA girl with professional aspirations who was classy versus a WVU girl who was a country bumpkin. Can't escape the stereotype. Lots of kids and adults from WVU understood that it was a cheap shot directed at them based on a stereotype. Lots of parents hoped they wouldn't have to explain that their kids would often throughout life be faced with dealing with stereotypes by people from other places who would never view them as having equal abilities or potential.

Not everyone is like that and for that I am appreciative.

 

[DNABB5]

I laugh at coach Jowlburns all the time. I don't pretend that isn't classless, I just don't care for that mug, and feel it is irrelevant how it got that way.

Your point is quite valid however. It is a sad and old stereotype.

 

[kcsu]

In West V a racist is someone who doesnt date his cousin

 

[CUSEBB1]

They need to stop crying.We have our very own W Virginia right here.Its called Oswego/Fulton.

 

[qdawgg]

They need to stop crying.We have our very own W Virginia right here.Its called Oswego/Fulton.

The only difference is people in Oswego/Fulton don't own couches to burn... they own futons.

 

[billorange44]

Anyone know what this is about?

http://westvirginia./showmsg.asp?fid=33&tid=148884408&mid=148884408&sid=891&style=2

Did the band/dance team/cheerleaders do anything to offend the WVU fans?

Also, there are some quite racist leaning comments in that thread.

You would have thought Ned Beatty did the coin toss by the way they are acting.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

I'm not one for putting people down for their socio-economic status.

Nor do I generally get involved in the "my school is smarter than your school" thing (despite a joke I made here about a week ago about the WVU alumni association). Truthfully, when we're talking about football, both schools have players that couldn't enroll had their admission been based solely upon academics. We can point to the Maxwell School all we want but I doubt many of it's students are playing football or basketball.

All that aside, I actually have no problem with dueling banjos as a rivalry joke. WVU perpetuates the stereotype of mountain men via its mascot, which I think is probably worse than using regional music as a gag.

I think the WVU fans need to dust themselves off from their butt kicking and find a real issue to be sensitive about.

 

[sutomcat]

Not as I recall. They did it in front of the normal SU student section on the SU side of the field.

Correct. I was surprised it was done. WVU is a long time rival and associate of Syracuse that we might have been playing for the last time.
I wish it had never happened.

 

[BleedsOrange44]

Well now we know what's okay in WV:

- attacking a pregnant LSU fan: ok

- playing cardboard banjos to deliverance: not ok

smh ... Those poor hypocritical west Virginia folk

 

[Dick_in_MI]

"I reel against PC'ism at every turn..... "

Followed by the rest of your (well reasoned) post, and ending with:

"Lots of parents hoped they wouldn't have to explain that their kids would often throughout life be faced with dealing with stereotypes by people from other places who would never view them as having equal abilities or potential."

I hope you can appreciate the irony, contradiction, and let's face it...hypocricy of the first statement contrasted with the rest of your post.