Depth...

[Jake]

Okay, I know that there will be games this year where MCW may not play...but I don't see JB shrinking the rotation to 6.5 guys this year. Rak's minutes may be very limited, but he does get a chance to play well and stay in any game we play.

My point is simply, this is the kind of player depth, usage and rotation that many of our fans have pined for for years.

Our depth is wearing teams down. I mean, our second unit extended the lead last in the first half to about 18 and then JB sent Triche, Scoop and Melo to the scorers table to come in.

I mean, you could almost see the Depaul players say "What".

 

[cliftonparksufan]

I mean, you could almost see the Depaul players say "What".

I think I saw Rex Ryan and Rob Ryan both say What. Oh wait. That was during the Jets/Miami game and the Giants/Cowboys game.

 

[rrlbees]

SU vs UConn, LVille, GTown and any other team where it is back and forth lead changes I don't see Rak or MCW playing and maybe not Dirty. JB has had the luxury of early blow outs pretty much.

 

[cytolliver]

SU vs UConn, LVille, GTown and any other team where it is back and forth lead changes I don't see Rak or MCW playing and maybe not Dirty. JB has had the luxury of early blow outs pretty much.

southerland will get his chance in every game this season

 

[kcsu]

I have been watching SU since Roy was coach and although the Melo led Championship was magic there has never been a Syracuse team with this much talent, not even close. The combinations that Jim has to play with are really off the chart. What a pleasure to watch these guys play.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

SU vs UConn, LVille, GTown and any other team where it is back and forth lead changes I don't see Rak or MCW playing and maybe not Dirty. JB has had the luxury of early blow outs pretty much.

MCW will probably get some time. He'll get rid of some of the "freshman jitters" toward seasons end. He plays hard, is a good facilitator, and is great on D. Boeheim has not been afraid to bench Scoop, Dion, and Triche for him and I see no reason for him to stop.

Rakeem will start every game, IMO. Play a few mins and be pulled. Just like Fab last season, it will help Christmas greatly the coming season.

Southerland will get PT, unless injured. He can be deadly from 3.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

SU vs UConn, LVille, GTown and any other team where it is back and forth lead changes I don't see Rak or MCW playing and maybe not Dirty. JB has had the luxury of early blow outs pretty much.

I firmly believe MCW will play in every single game remaining this season. JB did not hesitate to throw him out there in the first half vs a team that was applying a difficult full court press, and he performed well. If MCW had failed today, it's possible he would have logged quite a few DNP's the rest of the way, but he passed the test with flying colors.

Unfortunately for Rak, we didn't perform at our best when he was in there. I'll chalk it up to his first BE road game as a frosh. However, he needs to improve significantly (especially on the defense and rebounding) if he expects to see more than two or three token minutes per game the rest of the year.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I think I saw Rex Ryan and Rob Ryan both say What. Oh wait. That was during the Jets/Miami game and the Giants/Cowboys game.

I heard that NBC is going to have a network totally devoted to sideline shots of Rob Ryan. They will not show any part of the game, it will just be a camera on that idiot 24/7. They got damn close to it this season, but next year they are all-in.

 

[RF2044]

Agreed. Throw out the conventional wisdom about JB playing 7.5--it looks like we'll see 9-10 every game [with Rak getting the limited minutes you mention].

Nice to see--our depth is impressive.

 

[NRF527]

southerland will get his chance in every game this season

+1 JS played a significant role at G'town last year. His defense and improved rebounding will get him minutes every game this year even if his shot isn't always dropping.

 

[SBU72]

southerland will get his chance in every game this season

Really agree. I have been saying for weeks now that JS's all around play has earned him court time. His defense had really stepped up and his decision making on offense too. He no longer settles for 3's but works the ball.

 

[cuseclappy]

southerland will get his chance in every game this season

agreed as well, with the exception of maybe dion..there isnt anyone else on this team who can get hot and bury buckets as fast as JS..he'll get his chance every game to see if hes having one of his "on" nights

 

[RF2044]

agreed as well, with the exception of maybe dion..there isnt anyone else on this team who can get hot and bury buckets as fast as JS..he'll get his chance every game to see if hes having one of his "on" nights

Shots / offense comes and goes. Some nights you'll have it, other nights shots just won't drop.

What I'm encouraged by is that Southerland is now finding ways to contribute even when he's not hitting shots. Last year, he didn't rebound at all. That's not the case this year. And he's become a tremendous defender guarding the in-bound pass when we press. And whether the shot is dropping or not any given night, defenses need to account for him / have a guy glued to him, which helps spread the defense and opens things up for other guys.

Plus, you know that every once in awhile, he's going to get hot and have a game like he did at NC State. We're a different team when Southerland knocks down a shot or two--maybe even a national championship contender. What other team has the ability to bring three legitimate double figure scoring threats off of the bench???

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Shots / offense comes and goes. Some nights you'll have it, other nights shots just won't drop.

What I'm encouraged by is that Southerland is now finding ways to contribute even when he's not hitting shots. Last year, he didn't rebound at all. That's not the case this year. And he's become a tremendous defender guarding the in-bound pass when we press. And whether the shot is dropping or not any given night, defenses need to account for him / have a guy glued to him, which helps spread the defense and opens things up for other guys.

Plus, you know that every once in awhile, he's going to get hot and have a game like he did at NC State. We're a different team when Southerland knocks down a shot or two--maybe even a national championship contender. What other team has the ability to bring three legitimate double figure scoring threats off of the bench???

I think he finally woke up and realized that he is 6'8". Glad to see him start participating in the paint. Makes a huge difference.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

SU vs UConn, LVille, GTown and any other team where it is back and forth lead changes I don't see Rak or MCW playing and maybe not Dirty. JB has had the luxury of early blow outs pretty much.

I think there are always going to be at least eight. First, Waiters is playing way too good for me to see him not getting time. Second, I see Rak continuing to start for the rest of the season. The Melo experience/payoff is just too good and so fresh. Who wouldn't want that repeated.

As for the 8th person, I think it will be situational. For instance, against a Lville, I could see MCW not getting off the bench. Unlike others, I thought his handle was a little suspect yesterday. But outside of that, I think you will see him in every other game. I believe JB is making a deliberate attempt to use and develop more people.

I think in the last 3 years JB has had a shift in bench atitude that has been very refreshing. This whole starting a marquee bench player has been brilliant. First was Triche (and KJ really), then Melo, now X-Mas (and Triche really). It's kind of a scam like way to inflate the bench scoring and the annnouncers seem to take the bait regularly.

There are some real payoffs for SU now using the bench differently.
By starting bench players they obviously are not being used as just foul replacements, as it seemed in his earlier days. Remember the days of things like Coleman picked up his third foul, in comes someone like Brower, let's hope SU can stall for the next 5 minutes of the half. By starting the bench he has countered his natural competitive tendency to only play his best.
The defense is no longer a resting zone. Players aren't going back to their spot in the zone and gasping for air with their hands on their knees. Having 2 out of the last 3 years be some of the best D he has had is no fluke. Play active D or the bench is a real possibility. The zone has morphed into JBs signature move and he has to be pleased that it is becoming a force.
Also, it seems like it can only help recruiting. McD''s are coming into the program while McDs are already in the lineup. JB will figure it out, seems to be the thought.

If I see all these benefits, I don't think JB and Hop will be too far behind. And if that means having to find time for a heady, savvy, lengthy, rapidly improving, McD guard or a tall athletic sweet stroking forward as an 8th player off the bench, I think JB will bite the bullet.

Believe the change. Embrace the change. It's a great time to be Orange.

 

[baggerbob]

The second half yesterday showed why we need Keita back and healthy, it's going to be awhile before Christmas is effective as a center in the zone. Against average bigs at best he was lost in the second half and jimmy had to get Melo back in the game. I'm sure jimmy was trying to get him some time but he needs to be at forward for now.

 

[OttoMets]

As for the 8th person, I think it will be situational. For instance, against a Lville, I could see MCW not getting off the bench. Unlike others, I thought his handle was a little suspect yesterday. But outside of that, I think you will see him in every other game. I believe JB is making a deliberate attempt to use and develop more people.

There are some real payoffs for SU now using the bench differently.
By starting bench players they obviously are not being used as just foul replacements, as it seemed in his earlier days. Remember the days of things like Coleman picked up his third foul, in comes someone like Brower, let's hope SU can stall for the next 5 minutes of the half. By starting the bench he has countered his natural competitive tendency to only play his best.

Nice post. I saw the same Carter-Williams that you did yesterday - pretty shaky against the press. Aggressive and decisive, which is nice, but he had some clumsy passes and he doesn't yet dribble especially well against pressure. He's earning court time, but it wouldn't be at all shocking to see DNPs against Pittsburgh or Louisville.

Great point about the former tactic of tightening up when starters went out with foul trouble. Too many of our teams (especially in the post-probation era) needed to win games in 35 minutes because we'd be short-handed for a portion of the game. As of today, that's not the case. Hopefully it continues.

 

[AZOrange]

I have never seen depth like this. I cannot remember ever thinking that opposing coaches had to worry more about stopping us than vice versa.

It is becoming very apparent that we are the best team in college hoops.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Jim has never had this many players in the past. That's why he's playing 10 guys. As long as they perform well, they will play. If the level of play drops, then Jim will limit the numbers of players playing. Recruiting has really changed the past three years and Jim has a team full of players. It doesn't look like it's going to change soon. WHY? Thank Carmelo and the Melo Center.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Jim has never had this many players in the past. That's why he's playing 10 guys. As long as they perform well, they will play. If the level of play drops, then Jim will limit the numbers of players playing. Recruiting has really changed the past three years and Jim has a team full of players. It doesn't look like it's going to change soon. WHY? Thank Carmelo and the Melo Center.

Also, thank JB's ever growing reputation. During all the gloom when the local rag was lambasting our recruiting I always expected that our recruiting would fully blossom as JB's reputation grew, in large part based on longevity and consistency. Although Hop etc are good recruiters, what drives the bus is JB's ever growing reputation. Our recruiting will be terrific as long as JB hangs on and is still perceived as capable. At some point age will diminish his reputation but at this point I am enjoying the ride that took decades to culminate. I remember sitting in the local public radio station in the early 80's to read the ticker tape to get the scores of games in progress. I always felt certain that JB's stability would ultimately culminate in our rise to the top echelon of recruiting. I too have been a fan since the days of Manley and to finally reap the reward of decades of excellance by JB is supremely rewarding.

As a side note, over the years I've seen many questionable posts, but the truly misinformed ones were the ones that hoped for JB's early retirement. JB is going where few coaches have ever gone and Cuse fans are among the beneficiaries.

 

[orangepassion]

I think there are always going to be at least eight. First, Waiters is playing way too good for me to see him not getting time. Second, I see Rak continuing to start for the rest of the season. The Melo experience/payoff is just too good and so fresh. Who wouldn't want that repeated.

As for the 8th person, I think it will be situational. For instance, against a Lville, I could see MCW not getting off the bench. Unlike others, I thought his handle was a little suspect yesterday. But outside of that, I think you will see him in every other game. I believe JB is making a deliberate attempt to use and develop more people.

I think in the last 3 years JB has had a shift in bench atitude that has been very refreshing. This whole starting a marquee bench player has been brilliant. First was Triche (and KJ really), then Melo, now X-Mas (and Triche really). It's kind of a scam like way to inflate the bench scoring and the annnouncers seem to take the bait regularly.

There are some real payoffs for SU now using the bench differently.
By starting bench players they obviously are not being used as just foul replacements, as it seemed in his earlier days. Remember the days of things like Coleman picked up his third foul, in comes someone like Brower, let's hope SU can stall for the next 5 minutes of the half. By starting the bench he has countered his natural competitive tendency to only play his best.
The defense is no longer a resting zone. Players aren't going back to their spot in the zone and gasping for air with their hands on their knees. Having 2 out of the last 3 years be some of the best D he has had is no fluke. Play active D or the bench is a real possibility. The zone has morphed into JBs signature move and he has to be pleased that it is becoming a force.
Also, it seems like it can only help recruiting. McD''s are coming into the program while McDs are already in the lineup. JB will figure it out, seems to be the thought.

If I see all these benefits, I don't think JB and Hop will be too far behind. And if that means having to find time for a heady, savvy, lengthy, rapidly improving, McD guard or a tall athletic sweet stroking forward as an 8th player off the bench, I think JB will bite the bullet.

Believe the change. Embrace the change. It's a great time to be Orange.

Very good post. In the past, there was usually a big drop-off in talents from the regulars to most of the subs, although occasionally there was a sub who could contribute valuable & meaningful minutes. You, however, never had 3 or 4 and certainly not 5 bench players who could do very good things when they were brought into the game. JB this year has the best of both worlds- a core of seasoned players such as Scoop, KJ, and Brandon together with young, hungry & talented players such as Dion, CJ, Fab. and MCW.

One of the great benefits of playing younger players like CJ, MCW, & Rakim is that they will gain valuable experience that will be exteremely useful next year when others graduate or leave early. Another benefit of having substantial depth is that it causes the starters to focus more on their play when they know that there are talented kids on the bench who can replace them if they're not playing well. This is particularly true when SU plays an inferior opponent or gets a substantial lead on an opponent. Too often, many players often react by easing up and not staying as intense since they realize the coach won't pull them from the game if the subs are substantially inferior to them. With SU's present talent level, JB is not reluctant to sub
for players who are gassed or not focusing.

Right now, the players aren't looking ahead to future tough opponents at the same time they're playing weaker opponents.
They're looking behind them to players on the bench who will take their minutes if they don't produce now. This reduces the chance of upsets. As the recent Rutgers-Florida game and our Tournament loss to Vermont several years ago showed, when you let a weaker opponent hang on in the late stages of a game, anything can happen. That's why it's important to build and hold double digit leads so you can't be upended at the end of a game by a miracle shot, a bad call by the referee, or a bone-headed play.

Let's hope that this team does not sustain injuries or dissension ands keeps playing as it has.

 

[orangepassion]

Jim has never had this many players in the past. That's why he's playing 10 guys. As long as they perform well, they will play. If the level of play drops, then Jim will limit the numbers of players playing. Recruiting has really changed the past three years and Jim has a team full of players. It doesn't look like it's going to change soon. WHY? Thank Carmelo and the Melo Center.

Although Carmelo and the Melo Center are important, the fact that Hop, RobMurphy, and Troy Weaver were excellent recruiters and JB is a great evaluator and developer of talent was even more important.I remember not too long ago when we were having trouble getting a significant number of talented players. At that time, we were making do with whoever we could attract to SU, settling on players who right now wouldn't even be offered. To JB's credit, SU was able to develop unheralded players such as Etan, AO,and Andy and turn them into excellent college players.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Although Carmelo and the Melo Center are important, the fact that Hop, RobMurphy, and Troy Weaver were excellent recruiters and JB is a great evaluator and developer of talent was even more important.I remember not too long ago when we were having trouble getting a significant number of talented players. At that time, we were making do with whoever we could attract to SU, settling on players who right now wouldn't even be offered. To JB's credit, SU was able to develop unheralded players such as Etan, OA,and Andy and turn them into excellent college players.

Etan doesn't belong in that group. IIRC he was a borderline Top 50 guy.

 

[orangehipfan]

anybody know why southerland did not redshirt his freshman year of 2009 - 2010?

 

[RF2044]

anybody know why southerland did not redshirt his freshman year of 2009 - 2010?

Redshirts aren't that common in basketball for SU [of course, there are exceptions]. Southerland is a guy who might have arguably benefited from a redshirt year; I recall his high school coach suggesting as much prior to James arriving here at SU.

But in any event, I think the real reason was that Southerland had a strong performance in the preseason, on a team where several players weren't proven commodities. As it turned out, guys like Wes / Kris settled in at forward, alternating with the tandem of bigs we played, and Southerland was the odd man out.