Desko

[MadNY3]

First post here; I'll go into a little background about myself. Grew up in CNY, got into lacrosse because of Casey and Ryan Powell and watching them play at Syracuse. Played high school, JUCO and Club lacrosse at a private university in WNY. I still play lacrosse year round into my mid 30s. Also born on April 7th (2003 was a great year) for those basketball fans out there.

Regarding Desko, firing him would be a mistake in my opinion. It would throw the program into disarray...

Really smart and considerate post.

I'm not a LAX head as much as a fan (and now parent to a kid that is young/decent talent wise). But to benchmark Princeton as a downside, shouldn't one benchmark UVA, Penn State, etc., when talking about the good a change can do?

Recruiting is so much part of the game and hearing about the lack of contact or interest falls directly on Desko. SU is resourced pretty well in the scheme of things and unlike when we lost a step in football (facilities) or basketball (probation), SU lacrosse has suffered due to expansion of the game. That's understandable, but when #22 is unused for this amount of time, it's also symbolic of recruiting.

Teams looks very promising for next year, but no idea how that looks versus the rest. Have to think we look better than 9th/10th in the country though. Big year for Desko.

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

It took Tambroni 9 years to get Penn State to this point. And they were just mediocre before that, so no one expected anything. It’d be nothing but pitchforks and torches around the Dome if we’re looking at another 9 years

 

[ivorytower]

At what point are we going to stop complaining and start debating things like who’s going to get the long pole next year, Dordevic or Curry? Or will Buttermore bump Trimboli to the second line? Things like that

I

Really smart and considerate post.

I'm not a LAX head as much as a fan (and now parent to a kid that is young/decent talent wise). But to benchmark Princeton as a downside, shouldn't one benchmark UVA, Penn State, etc., when talking about the good a change can do?

Recruiting is so much part of the game and hearing about the lack of contact or interest falls directly on Desko. SU is resourced pretty well in the scheme of things and unlike when we lost a step in football (facilities) or basketball (probation), SU lacrosse has suffered due to expansion of the game. That's understandable, but when #22 is unused for this amount of time, it's also symbolic of recruiting.

Teams looks very promising for next year, but no idea how that looks versus the rest. Have to think we look better than 9th/10th in the country though. Big year for Desko.

Certainly frustrating to watch talented frosh like Epstein, Brandau, Scanlan, Handley, Solomon, Schelling, LaSalla , Tucci and some other frosh burst onto the scene and excel but Desko did recruit three highly ranked in 18 class and some unranked kids who may be as good or better. Hopefully some shine this year . The 15, 16 and 17 classes have yielded some very good players

 

[kcsu]

Desko will pull it together. The guy is a great coach who needs to work harder at recruiting. He knows this and im sure we will see a major improvement.

 

[Newhouse_83]

Not one player interviewed called for Desko's head:

Whether head coach John Desko and his staff are still the right men for the job

"So, Dylan, should Wildhack fire your Uncle John for the job he and your dad are doing with the program that a bunch of your buds still play for -- you know, at the school that provided you and your sister with a free education? Be honest now, it's not like you have to see these guys at dinner or anything."

(Not intended as a knock on your post, OX, but the statement sets up my rant.)

This story could have been good, had it been executed correctly. You talk to people who don't swim in the same fish tank as your guys. You talk to guys like Starsia who coached and recruited against the program. You talk to Lasagna or another coach/columnist-type who studies the big picture. You talk to a Zimmerman type who ran a program similar to SU's. You talk a a *couple* guys like Carc, who is an alum but who sees a lot of D-1 lacrosse so he can provide a useful measuring stick, and Mr. "Tell it like it is" Beardsley. You grant anonymity to current coaches who are competing with SU for kids and wins, and get their honest takes -- Philly was full of them all weekend, and they're all there to talk about the game ... a Bill Tierney is sure gonna have some good ideas. The NFL writers with whom I work do this regularly, and do it well.

Oh, and you. Don't. Ask. Them. A. Yes/no. Question.

You say: "If you were running the SU program right now, what would would you change to improve it? And which of those things would you do first?" And then you sit back and let them fill your notebook, and you have a pretty good piece for next Sunday that will engage readers and get them fired up and maybe get the AD thinking about some things, if he's not doing so already. But asking a bunch of guys who were recruited by and coached by and won championships with Desko and Donahue and RSIII if they still support those guys is akin to walking into the frozen-foods section and walking out with a pint of vanilla. Store-brand vanilla.

Disclaimer: I think this is the kind of story you get when you take a (very good) hockey writer, get rid of many of his colleagues, and grind him to paste covering the second and third biggest teams this region has after bowl season ends (and apparently also have him writing about the Chiefs). Smarter editors would have had Donna and/or one of the football guys doing some of the feature writing around the lacrosse program so that Kramer could A) Breathe. and B) Go deeper/better on pieces like this. But, hey, gotta have two guys on spring football full-time.

 

[Whitey23]

Desko will pull it together. The guy is a great coach who needs to work harder at recruiting. He knows this and im sure we will see a major improvement.

If that's the case, he needs to get the message out. The usual list of cliches is only hurting his cause with the public.

 

[Stealth4785]

Really smart and considerate post.

I'm not a LAX head as much as a fan (and now parent to a kid that is young/decent talent wise). But to benchmark Princeton as a downside, shouldn't one benchmark UVA, Penn State, etc., when talking about the good a change can do?

Recruiting is so much part of the game and hearing about the lack of contact or interest falls directly on Desko. SU is resourced pretty well in the scheme of things and unlike when we lost a step in football (facilities) or basketball (probation), SU lacrosse has suffered due to expansion of the game. That's understandable, but when #22 is unused for this amount of time, it's also symbolic of recruiting.

Teams looks very promising for next year, but no idea how that looks versus the rest. Have to think we look better than 9th/10th in the country though. Big year for Desko.

I used Princeton as an example because I feel comparing Bill Tierney and John Desko would be comparing apples to apples. Both Hall of Fame coaches, in a traditional powerhouse school; just happened that Tierney left to start anew again and has had some good level of success already. If you noticed, Princeton's last tournament appearance was in 2012; two seasons after Tierney left, indicating that Bates had some success with the recruits Tierney had brought in. Starsia leaving UVA with Lars Tiffany coming in would be, in my opinion, too soon to really use as an example of change due to the same idea that Tiffany is still reaping the successful recruiting of Starsia.

As pointed out, Tambroni took nine years to build Penn State into what it is today, but still didn't make it to Championship weekend. I can't imagine what our fan base would look like after a nine year rebuild.

 

[Hoo's That]

I used Princeton as an example because I feel comparing Bill Tierney and John Desko would be comparing apples to apples. Both Hall of Fame coaches, in a traditional powerhouse school; just happened that Tierney left to start anew again and has had some good level of success already. If you noticed, Princeton's last tournament appearance was in 2012; two seasons after Tierney left, indicating that Bates had some success with the recruits Tierney had brought in. Starsia leaving UVA with Lars Tiffany coming in would be, in my opinion, too soon to really use as an example of change due to the same idea that Tiffany is still reaping the successful recruiting of Starsia.

As pointed out, Tambroni took nine years to build Penn State into what it is today, but still didn't make it to Championship weekend. I can't imagine what our fan base would look like after a nine year rebuild.

One thing to be careful about when talking about Princeton. Tierney was told/began to realize that he wouldn't be getting the level of cooperation from the Admissions Office that he got in the past and went to a greener pasture when the opportunity arose. Everyone on every fan board I visit always talks about how the school's administration doesn't support the ________ team like it used to. In the case of Princeton MLax, they are 100% correct.

 

[ForCuseSake]

I used Princeton as an example because I feel comparing Bill Tierney and John Desko would be comparing apples to apples. Both Hall of Fame coaches, in a traditional powerhouse school; just happened that Tierney left to start anew again and has had some good level of success already. If you noticed, Princeton's last tournament appearance was in 2012; two seasons after Tierney left, indicating that Bates had some success with the recruits Tierney had brought in. Starsia leaving UVA with Lars Tiffany coming in would be, in my opinion, too soon to really use as an example of change due to the same idea that Tiffany is still reaping the successful recruiting of Starsia.

As pointed out, Tambroni took nine years to build Penn State into what it is today, but still didn't make it to Championship weekend. I can't imagine what our fan base would look like after a nine year rebuild.

Let's hope year 7 of the current rebuild (2020) ends in a return to Championship Weekend.

Otherwise there will be little left to imagine what 9 years of rebuilding SU lacrosse looks like.

I think Princeton's lack of success post Tierney has more to do with fewer admissions exceptions. I think this was a big contributor to Tierney leaving for Denver - he got sick of butting heads with the administration over talented kids he recruited.

It'll be interesting to see if Shay has a similar experience at Yale after a few more years of FF appearances (and perhaps another title).

You bring up an excellent point in an earlier post regarding tuition-free (or significantly reduced tuition) at the Ivies. It's becoming increasingly difficult to recruit against Ivy programs as they offer steep discounts for all students.

I don't know much about SU's financial aid but I know students at Harvard who come from households earning $65k to $150k pay 0% - 10% of full tuition (less than $65k = free tuition).

 

[ForCuseSake]

One thing to be careful about when talking about Princeton. Tierney was told/began to realize that he wouldn't be getting the level of cooperation from the Admissions Office that he got in the past and went to a greener pasture when the opportunity arose. Everyone on every fan board I visit always talks about how the school's administration doesn't support the ________ team like it used to. In the case of Princeton MLax, they are 100% correct.

Beat me to it on the Princeton/Tierney stuff.

 

[Hoo's That]

{snip}

I don't know much about SU's financial aid but I know students at Harvard who come from households earning $65k to $150k pay 0% - 10% of full tuition (less than $65k = free tuition).

You're right. Less than $65K pays $0; Harvard picks up all expenses, tuition, fees, room, board, and books. After that it's a sliding scale that rivals in-state tuition at state schools.

 

[ivorytower]

"So, Dylan, should Wildhack fire your Uncle John for the job he and your dad are doing with the program that a bunch of your buds still play for -- you know, at the school that provided you and your sister with a free education? Be honest now, it's not like you have to see these guys at dinner or anything."

(Not intended as a knock on your post, OX, but the statement sets up my rant.)

This story could have been good, had it been executed correctly. You talk to people who don't swim in the same fish tank as your guys. You talk to guys like Starsia who coached and recruited against the program. You talk to Lasagna or another coach/columnist-type who studies the big picture. You talk to a Zimmerman type who ran a program similar to SU's. You talk a a *couple* guys like Carc, who is an alum but who sees a lot of D-1 lacrosse so he can provide a useful measuring stick, and Mr. "Tell it like it is" Beardsley. You grant anonymity to current coaches who are competing with SU for kids and wins, and get their honest takes -- Philly was full of them all weekend, and they're all there to talk about the game ... a Bill Tierney is sure gonna have some good ideas. The NFL writers with whom I work do this regularly, and do it well.

Oh, and you. Don't. Ask. Them. A. Yes/no. Question.

You say: "If you were running the SU program right now, what would would you change to improve it? And which of those things would you do first?" And then you sit back and let them fill your notebook, and you have a pretty good piece for next Sunday that will engage readers and get them fired up and maybe get the AD thinking about some things, if he's not doing so already. But asking a bunch of guys who were recruited by and coached by and won championships with Desko and Donahue and RSIII if they still support those guys is akin to walking into the frozen-foods section and walking out with a pint of vanilla. Store-brand vanilla.

Disclaimer: I think this is the kind of story you get when you take a (very good) hockey writer, get rid of many of his colleagues, and grind him to paste covering the second and third biggest teams this region has after bowl season ends (and apparently also have him writing about the Chiefs). Smarter editors would have had Donna and/or one of the football guys doing some of the feature writing around the lacrosse program so that Kramer could A) Breathe. and B) Go deeper/better on pieces like this. But, hey, gotta have two guys on spring football full-time.

NewHouse
As you know, there is journalism and there is journalism with credible content that adds and expands to a substantive discussion.

Some recent reports were fluff that wasted bandwidth because it added nothing.

Takes from anonymous sources are viewed by me as loose creations by writer whether fair or not.
It heeds little from me unless a name is attributed to comments that makes an article.

You also dont ask people who have a bone to pick or a personal agenda either.

Be healthy to see this never ending topic arise after a win streak but it wont because it wouldn't draw or argue as well. Also be refreshing to have assessments of current team and its near term prospects amid the larger discussion rather than for it to simply get absorbed. Sometimes there are two stories at hand that dont necessarily run parallel.

Anish, Carc, Quint, Ric and others have all commented on the present state of Cuse lax but also have altered their tune to how the team does.. One week we have issues, next month this team is FF bound, next let's go back to program having issues.

I dont mind diplomacy being exercised while critiquing. Most readers can see through and understand inferences and the true gist of what is being said.

Credible views deal for me in facts that can be verified and the context of current landscape rather than hearsay and past environments.

 

[PhatOrange]

I used Princeton as an example because I feel comparing Bill Tierney and John Desko would be comparing apples to apples. Both Hall of Fame coaches, in a traditional powerhouse school; just happened that Tierney left to start anew again and has had some good level of success already. If you noticed, Princeton's last tournament appearance was in 2012; two seasons after Tierney left, indicating that Bates had some success with the recruits Tierney had brought in. Starsia leaving UVA with Lars Tiffany coming in would be, in my opinion, too soon to really use as an example of change due to the same idea that Tiffany is still reaping the successful recruiting of Starsia.

As pointed out, Tambroni took nine years to build Penn State into what it is today, but still didn't make it to Championship weekend. I can't imagine what our fan base would look like after a nine year rebuild.

We're at 7 years right now though right? That's why the fanbase is starting to tire. Penn State took 9 years imo because Penn State was a nobody. Syracuse would be starting WAAAAY ahead of where Penn State was. It's sort of like taking over Texas Tech football versus taking over the Texas Longhorns football program.

 

[PhatOrange]

Let's hope year 7 of the current rebuild (2020) ends in a return to Championship Weekend.

Otherwise there will be little left to imagine what 9 years of rebuilding SU lacrosse looks like.

I think Princeton's lack of success post Tierney has more to do with fewer admissions exceptions. I think this was a big contributor to Tierney leaving for Denver - he got sick of butting heads with the administration over talented kids he recruited.

It'll be interesting to see if Shay has a similar experience at Yale after a few more years of FF appearances (and perhaps another title).

You bring up an excellent point in an earlier post regarding tuition-free (or significantly reduced tuition) at the Ivies. It's becoming increasingly difficult to recruit against Ivy programs as they offer steep discounts for all students.

I don't know much about SU's financial aid but I know students at Harvard who come from households earning $65k to $150k pay 0% - 10% of full tuition (less than $65k = free tuition).

Look at the roster of Yale and see how many kids come from the private or Catholic leagues. These parents are probably pretty wealthy to begin with. They could afford Syracuse and I'd bet could definitely with financial aid packages if necessary. But no matter, Yale isn't letting in C students either. These kids are likely pulling very good grades to. The Ivies haven't become OCC.

 

[PhatOrange]

You're right. Less than $65K pays $0; Harvard picks up all expenses, tuition, fees, room, board, and books. After that it's a sliding scale that rivals in-state tuition at state schools.

Probably not many parents on this roster making less than $65K. At least household income.

2019 Yale Men's Lacrosse Roster

 

[Stealth4785]

Let's hope year 7 of the current rebuild (2020) ends in a return to Championship Weekend.

Otherwise there will be little left to imagine what 9 years of rebuilding SU lacrosse looks like.

I think Princeton's lack of success post Tierney has more to do with fewer admissions exceptions. I think this was a big contributor to Tierney leaving for Denver - he got sick of butting heads with the administration over talented kids he recruited.

It'll be interesting to see if Shay has a similar experience at Yale after a few more years of FF appearances (and perhaps another title).

You bring up an excellent point in an earlier post regarding tuition-free (or significantly reduced tuition) at the Ivies. It's becoming increasingly difficult to recruit against Ivy programs as they offer steep discounts for all students.

I don't know much about SU's financial aid but I know students at Harvard who come from households earning $65k to $150k pay 0% - 10% of full tuition (less than $65k = free tuition).

Regarding the lack of cooperation by the admissions office at Princeton - in my opinion, every other Ivy league school should follow Princeton's example. I'm not saying this as a Syracuse fan, but as someone who believes in academics over athletics. The exceptions made by other Ivy league schools, in my opinion, should be simply that - an exception and not the norm. Without knowing the admissions criteria or what exceptions are made, I can only speculate and that's not something worth debating. If we consider these young adults as student athletes, then schools, both Ivy and non-Ivy league schools shouldn't have two sets of standards, one for athletes and one for non-athletes. Work hard, both in the classroom and outside of the classroom; if you work hard enough, you will get into the school of your choice without an exception needing to be made.

I am not a fan of transferring for more playing time either even though at times that has benefited Syracuse. If there is someone ahead of you on the depth chart, work harder, put in the extra work and time with the staff and your teammates, beat the other guys out. Earn your playing time; coaches also need to be unbiased and play the best player regardless of whether they are freshmen or red shirt seniors, in my opinion.

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

coaches also need to be unbiased and play the best player regardless of whether they are freshmen or red shirt seniors, in my opinion.

I agree with most of what you said, but I quibble with this part to a degree.

If a freshman is, say, a 7 out of 10 and the redshirt senior is a 7.5 out of 10, I’m spending my time developing and playing the freshman because he could be 9 or 9.5 by the time he’s a senior.

 

[longtimefan]

Look at the roster of Yale and see how many kids come from the private or Catholic leagues. These parents are probably pretty wealthy to begin with. They could afford Syracuse and I'd bet could definitely with financial aid packages if necessary. But no matter, Yale isn't letting in C students either. These kids are likely pulling very good grades to. The Ivies haven't become OCC.

Just because parents can afford to pay full freight doesn't mean that they would prefer to do so. The fact is, there is more financial support available at Ivy schools.

Plus, the academics, of course.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Regarding the lack of cooperation by the admissions office at Princeton - in my opinion, every other Ivy league school should follow Princeton's example. I'm not saying this as a Syracuse fan, but as someone who believes in academics over athletics. The exceptions made by other Ivy league schools, in my opinion, should be simply that - an exception and not the norm. Without knowing the admissions criteria or what exceptions are made, I can only speculate and that's not something worth debating. If we consider these young adults as student athletes, then schools, both Ivy and non-Ivy league schools shouldn't have two sets of standards, one for athletes and one for non-athletes. Work hard, both in the classroom and outside of the classroom; if you work hard enough, you will get into the school of your choice without an exception needing to be made.

This is great in theory but not always practiced in college athletics.

I believe every college deviates (some more than others) from their standards to admit talented athletes. And I think it cuts across all NCAA divisions, sports, regardless of gender.

I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing (within reason). It can be good to challenge a kid with an opportunity at an academic level they might be slightly below.

 

[PhatOrange]

Just because parents can afford to pay full freight doesn't mean that they would prefer to do so. The fact is, there is more financial support available at Ivy schools.

Plus, the academics, of course.

we're talking about financial aid being income based.

 

[longtimefan]

we're talking about financial aid being income based.

Yes. Every college gives needs-based financial aid (except the military academies). But some colleges have more money to give. And that primarily goes back to endowments.

 

[laxsummit]

I agree with most of what you said, but I quibble with this part to a degree.

If a freshman is, say, a 7 out of 10 and the redshirt senior is a 7.5 out of 10, I’m spending my time developing and playing the freshman because he could be 9 or 9.5 by the time he’s a senior.

Play to win today, tough schedule allows little margin and any downgrade in ability and experience however minimal can cost team a tourney berth and the wrath of our most forgiving fans. Teams with no chip prospects can afford to play for tommorrow. . Cuse has legit window of opportunity next two years, you play to win now, you play your best today.

 

[Stealth4785]

I agree with most of what you said, but I quibble with this part to a degree.

If a freshman is, say, a 7 out of 10 and the redshirt senior is a 7.5 out of 10, I’m spending my time developing and playing the freshman because he could be 9 or 9.5 by the time he’s a senior.

I think we are on the same page, but in your proposed situation I would be more inclined to split time then playing one over the other as the difference, in your example, is not that significant.
It must be difficult to remain unbiased as a coach I imagine, as you build these relationships with these young adults over days, months, years.

Talented young athletes shouldn't be held to lower academic standards for the admissions process; playing a sport at the higher and highest level is a privilege, not a right. Lowering standards because someone is a talented athlete is an illustration of what's wrong with our current society - instead of the rising to the occasion, we just lower the bar.

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

Play to win today, tough schedule allows little margin and any downgrade in ability and experience however minimal can cost team a tourney berth and the wrath of our most forgiving fans. Teams with no chip prospects can afford to play for tommorrow. . Cuse has legit window of opportunity next two years, you play to win now, you play your best today.

So, you’re happy with a Pat Carlin over a Magnan?

 

[PhatOrange]

Yes. Every college gives needs-based financial aid (except the military academies). But some colleges have more money to give. And that primarily goes back to endowments.

yeah and syracuse's endowment is over a billion.