Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[shandeezy7]

The boulevard would still need the existing access ramps to 690. The amount of new land is overhyped. Fancy renderings of maple trees is all we have so far. There is also plenty of land and office space available within the city limits. All these offices are being converted to apartments because business have no need for the space. Tearing down 81 cannot spur demand that doesn't exist. If SU and the hospitals were desperate for more land to expand their footprint, which I haven't heard, then I'd suggest moving Pioneer Homes residents into some of these nice newly renovated apartments (cut a deal with the state for low income rent) and free up the land right next to the city's 2 largest employers.

The ramps connecting the boulevard to 690 will be nowhere near the footprint of the current ramps connecting 81 to 690. Not even close. Regardless, my biggest issue all along with rebuilding the viaduct has been the further destruction of useful and taxable downtown buildings just so that Joe Blow from Cicero can get to the apple festival in Lafayette 5 minutes faster.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I hope you realize that sales tax is the primary source of revenue for the county.

And that's a bad idea when so much retail is moving online. There's no reason to sacrifice property value so that a small percentage of people can shave 5 minutes off their commute through the city.

 

[gocusecaz]

Yeah, the heck with that poor schlub in Cicero who doesn't go to the apple festival because it takes 5 more minutes. And the heck with the people selling stuff at the apple festival because that schlub in Cicero doesn't go. Thank goodness.

 

[FrancoPizza]

What's with your fixation on Pioneer Homes? That's like 3 posts complaining about it. We get it; you don't like the projects. Guess what? Neither do the people who live there. I highly doubt there will be protests in the streets.

If we're going to spend over a billion dollars to rehabilitate, we can't have projects be the first thing people see. It's just that simple. It's not a fixation, it's a talking point that you happen to disagree with.

 

[OttoMets]

The boulevard would still need the existing access ramps to 690. The amount of new land is overhyped. Fancy renderings of maple trees is all we have so far. There is also plenty of land and office space available within the city limits. All these offices are being converted to apartments because business have no need for the space. Tearing down 81 cannot spur demand that doesn't exist. If SU and the hospitals were desperate for more land to expand their footprint, which I haven't heard,...

No demand, huh? That take is assuredly not accurate. And small wonder, given the location:

 

[shandeezy7]

Yeah, the heck with that poor schlub in Cicero who doesn't go to the apple festival because it takes 5 more minutes. And the heck with the people selling stuff at the apple festival because that schlub in Cicero doesn't go. Thank goodness.

Yup, I'd say to heck with them if it's between the extremely minor impact it would have on their life and the very real impact it could have on the people and business owners in the city of Syracuse, where this is actually located. We already displaced thousands of residents and destroyed communities and businesses all in the name of "progress." Let's hope that mistake isn't made a second time so that suburban residents and businesses with no vested interest in the city aren't slightly inconvenienced.

 

[shandeezy7]

If we're going to spend over a billion dollars to rehabilitate, we can't have projects be the first thing people see. It's just that simple. It's not a fixation, it's a talking point that you happen to disagree with.

The project cost is irrelevant in that context. The money has to be spent, one way or another, unless your position would be to just let 81 rot until it collapses and do nothing at all with it. So I'm not really sure how the cost of the project is related to the appearance of the Pioneer development.

 

[FrancoPizza]

No demand, huh? That take is assuredly not accurate. And small wonder, given the location:
View attachment 114130

This diagram makes it sound like we'll be erecting offices and ballparks right on top of a new boulevard. There's also no sense of scale - it's a bunch of squiggly lines. Let's face it - both sides of the argument are using emotional ploys without a lot of substance to back up their claims. A tunnel is the best bet unless someone tells me I'll have to spend X amount of dollars to finance the project. All this "taxpayer obligation" is a load of crapola. Tell me how much your tax assessment went up specifically because of the Tappan Zee bridge.

 

[OttoMets]

This diagram makes it sound like we'll be erecting offices and ballparks right on top of a new boulevard. There's also no sense of scale - it's a bunch of squiggly lines. Let's face it - both sides of the argument are using emotional ploys without a lot of substance to back up their claims. A tunnel is the best bet unless someone tells me I'll have to spend X amount of dollars to finance the project. All this "taxpayer obligation" is a load of crapola. Tell me how much your tax assessment went up specifically because of the Tappan Zee bridge.

I don't understand what this means, but you're talking about two very different things. The Tappan Zee Bridge replacement is a necessary piece of public infrastructure and more than a marginal improvement. A "tunnel" (every concept studied doesn't deserve to be freed from quotes) would be a ridiculous luxury that serves primarily as a quasi-private driveway from the rural southern part of the county to (surprise!) a mall on the north side of the city.

 

[gocusecaz]

No demand, huh? That take is assuredly not accurate. And small wonder, given the location:
View attachment 114130

So taking down the viaduct will increase the value of Pioneer Homes ? I'm sure they will be glad to have their rents increase. Or are they subsidized so the taxpayers can cover them. Also,since there's not a lot of vacant land near the viaduct, then property values by the viaduct should skyrocket. Of course with the hospital there, I'm not sure if they pay taxes, being part of the state. Oh yeah, the hell with the people north of the city.

 

[Fly Rodder]

So taking down the viaduct will increase the value of Pioneer Homes

Yes and no. The property will be more valuable, but it won't be Pioneer homes anymore.

This is some people's concern?

 

[FrancoPizza]

So taking down the viaduct will increase the value of Pioneer Homes ? I'm sure they will be glad to have their rents increase. Or are they subsidized so the taxpayers can cover them. Also,since there's not a lot of vacant land near the viaduct, then property values by the viaduct should skyrocket. Of course with the hospital there, I'm not sure if they pay taxes, being part of the state. Oh yeah, the hell with the people north of the city.

It’s quite ridiculous the notion that the people who live in the city are more impacted than those who live in the suburbs. We are all affected. The polarization and marginalization on this topic are incredible.

 

[Fly Rodder]

If we're going to spend over a billion dollars to rehabilitate, we can't have projects be the first thing people see. It's just that simple. It's not a fixation, it's a talking point that you happen to disagree with.

When the viaduct is taken down, there will be substantial changes and development along that corridor. Some of which can't be predicted. And it's going to take decades, not months. This improvement is just making creating the environment necessary for development, growth, and the power of economic activity.

 

[gocusecaz]

I didn't go to any of the presentations about the project, but did they say anything about what was to happen south of the viaduct. Looking at Google map of the area around the viaduct I don't see a lot of vacant land. Everything has a building or a parking lot for that building on it. Architect drawings almost always make things look better than they end up looking like. Also for those people wanting to go north to south and vice versa are in for a major cluster "'&+;. I'm not just talking about travelers passing through, but people who live close to or in the city. People don't like to be inconvenienced. Remember the uproar that happened when they redid Clinton Square.

 

[shandeezy7]

I didn't go to any of the presentations about the project, but did they say anything about what was to happen south of the viaduct. Looking at Google map of the area around the viaduct I don't see a lot of vacant land. Everything has a building or a parking lot for that building on it. Architect drawings almost always make things look better than they end up looking like. Also for those people wanting to go north to south and vice versa are in for a major cluster "'&+;. I'm not just talking about travelers passing through, but people who live close to or in the city. People don't like to be inconvenienced. Remember the uproar that happened when they redid Clinton Square.

Thanks for that perfect example of much ado about nothing. Erie Boulevard was closed for a block and life went on while that area of the city has been much improved.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Yeah, the heck with that poor schlub in Cicero who doesn't go to the apple festival because it takes 5 more minutes. And the heck with the people selling stuff at the apple festival because that schlub in Cicero doesn't go. Thank goodness.

Cicero to 481 South to 81 South at Rock Cut Road would actually be faster than going through the City. But who cares about facts?

 

[IthacaMatt]

If we're going to spend over a billion dollars to rehabilitate, we can't have projects be the first thing people see. It's just that simple. It's not a fixation, it's a talking point that you happen to disagree with.

They won't exist. Property values will lead to their redevelopment.
Are you saying they won't ever be replaced?
Because I told you already, they just did that at Kennedy Square, or whatever they called it, a few years ago.
What is your "talking point"?

 

[gocusecaz]

Well that was bitching about the closing of one block. Even though the only thing we would be closing is the viaduct, we would be talking about 15 to 20 blocks of city streets. I guess people would get used to it, or just say the hell with it. Also I'm pretty sure the trucking companies that travel through the city now will be excited about the extra cost of going around Syracuse. Having a brother in law who drives truck I know the companies always send them on the shortest route to save money.

 

[maxxyz]

It’s quite ridiculous the notion that the people who live in the city are more impacted than those who live in the suburbs. We are all affected. The polarization and marginalization on this topic are incredible.

If you had an interstate running thru your town you would feel pretty strongly about how it affected you. And you would likely feel your voice should carry more weight than someone from out of town.

Suburbanites in Manlius won't let a McDonald's be built because of how it would affect traffic. And they wouldn't let the new Dunkin Donuts put a drive-thru window on the building for the same reason.

I don't think its unfair for the residents of the City of Syracuse to be the major decision makers on the details of a project that will have an enormous impact on their day to day lives.

 

[gocusecaz]

Cicero to 481 South to 81 South at Rock Cut Road would actually be faster than going through the City. But who cares about facts?

Huh!!! Are you using the city streets? That's adding a bunch of miles.

 

[gocusecaz]

They won't exist. Property values will lead to their redevelopment.
Are you saying they won't ever be replaced?
Because I told you already, they just did that at Kennedy Square, or whatever they called it, a few years ago.
What is your "talking point"?

They took down Kennedy Square because it was at least half empty and wasn't worth the money to rehabilitate. A perfect example of the poorly thought out Urban Renewal projects of the 60's.

 

[shandeezy7]

Huh!!! Are you using the city streets? That's adding a bunch of miles.

According to Google Maps, traveling from Cicero to Lafayette via 81 is 20.7 miles and takes 21 minutes, while traveling via 481 is 24.1 miles and takes 24 minutes. A "bunch" of miles does not equate to 3.4 miles in most people's books.

 

[xc84]

Huh!!! Are you using the city streets? That's adding a bunch of miles.

481...and it is only 3 miles longerthan 81 is now. It's a wash.

In addition, the amount of non-highway North-South is only 1.3 miles for someone who decides to go straight through downtown to get from 81 to 81.

 

[gocusecaz]

Oh good good. I am sure the perception of the people who live in Cicero is that it's quicker to go through Syracuse to get to Lafayette. Take down the viaduct. Hopefully in a few years when people see what a mess has been created, they can come up with the cash to fix the mistake. Of course maybe with all the new property tax revenue will help.

 

[xc84]

Oh good good. I am sure the perception of the people who live in Cicero is that it's quicker to go through Syracuse to get to Lafayette. Take down the viaduct. Hopefully in a few years when people see what a mess has been created, they can come up with the cash to fix the mistake. Of course maybe with all the new property tax revenue will help.

It's only 3 miles longer on 481. When upgraded to 81, the speed limit can be 65 instead of the 55 it is through downtown. It's a wash time-wise.