Did Jalen and Brycen both receive waivers?

SUFan44

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neither player helps a team anywhere near what Buddy does. Not even in the same league.

Didn't say that. I'm just saying that Buddy needs to improve on the other side of the ball by leaps and bounds before I call him a legit top-flight ACC guard. And we need more of those types of players if we want to be ranked & not on the bubble every year.
 

Newhouser

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Carey and Goodine are just the latest examples of recruits who were ranked too high coming out of high school. I think both might have eventually carved out a niche here but not at the level of expectation/ranking that they came in with. I too think he has some lapses but JB seems to know who has it and who doesn't pretty quickly.
 

CuseFaninVT

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Buddy tries on defense. He can get better. Devo wasn't interested in defense.
And I don't disagree with those statements. And I still feel their defense was similar. If Devo had tried, he would have been far better.

I have to wonder if Buddy's refusal to go after rebounds, which I know I harp on all the time, is a coaching decision, and not Buddy just doing whatever the heck he wants. Could be that JB wants Buddy to get out to look for a wide open fast break 3.
 

CuseFaninVT

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There's no doubt he needs to get better defensively, but some of these takes are just not right. Offensively he clearly belongs on the court. We've had very few 2 guards as efficient as he was last year. Triche is the only player who had multiple seasons more efficient than Buddy was. And as beloved as Devo was around here, he had a lot of the same deficiencies. He averaged 2 rpg and that team in 2009 regularly gave up 90. People like swagger though. I get it.
One of Buddy's drawbacks that doesn't get talked about enough is his inability to provide a good backup for Joe at bringing the ball up the court. Devo could do that, as could many of our other 2 guards. Instead we need our small forward to take over when Joe is getting pressed by a tougher quick guard.

The rest of your post, I tend to agree with as well. But again as to the time on the court, not for 38 minutes.
 

Orangezoo

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And I don't disagree with those statements. And I still feel their defense was similar. If Devo had tried, he would have been far better.

I have to wonder if Buddy's refusal to go after rebounds, which I know I harp on all the time, is a coaching decision, and not Buddy just doing whatever the heck he wants. Could be that JB wants Buddy to get out to look for a wide open fast break 3.

It sure looked like that is the case. Plus now between QG and AG you have two guys who aggressively attack the boards.
 

dasher

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One of Buddy's drawbacks that doesn't get talked about enough is his inability to provide a good backup for Joe at bringing the ball up the court. Devo could do that, as could many of our other 2 guards. Instead we need our small forward to take over when Joe is getting pressed by a tougher quick guard.

The rest of your post, I tend to agree with as well. But again as to the time on the court, not for 38 minutes.
JB has used his forwards to bring the ball up since he started back in 1976,.
 

ORRange

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Goodine had 16 minutes a few steals and rebounds. He will get his confidence remember he was a top shooter coming out of HS. Not saying he was a good fit for us but think he will be a late bloomer like BJ and decent player.
Comparing him to BJ at this point is a stretch. I was just pointing out that the same issues( 30% fg, 12% 3pt, 1/1 assist to TO ratio, only scores on layups and FTs) are rearing their ugly heads at Providence. Hence, he is only playing 12 minutes a game. Its hard to play a guard without a jumper in this day and age.
 

Gotothehole

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neither player helps a team anywhere near what Buddy does. Not even in the same league.
Your statement says it all. We lose two guards and bring in one. Why not bring in another guard and some competition for 2 spot? But he has the position by default there’s no one to challenge him. That should not be the case
 

capeorange

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Comparing him to BJ at this point is a stretch. I was just pointing out that the same issues( 30% fg, 12% 3pt, 1/1 assist to TO ratio, only scores on layups and FTs) are rearing their ugly heads at Providence. Hence, he is only playing 12 minutes a game. Its hard to play a guard without a jumper in this day and age.


Not even close. Goodine never showed this potential.


It really hurt to see BJ go but the sanctions made it happen.
 

dasher

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Your statement says it all. We lose two guards and bring in one. Why not bring in another guard and some competition for 2 spot? But he has the position by the default there’s no one to challenge him.
I don't disagree that we should always be recruiting as good a player as we can get. You will get no argument from me on that. However, the kid is a much better player than the anti Buddy people want to ever admit. I suggest that after he is done, people will look at him differently. And that he will have had two (or three) very good years to come here.
 

721Comstock

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Agree with you on most of this, Dasher. But Devo is a bad comparison. Sure he wasn’t a great defender. But he was one of the best guards we’ve ever had attacking off the bounce in addition to being a good shooter. JB himself has said that he was the best player we’ve ever had who was able to finish with both his left and right hand when attacking the basket. He may have been better going left than right. I’ve been impressed with Buddy’s development, but he doesn’t have Devo’s ability yet.

Devo also led the team in assists one season, as a Soph.
Career average 3.2 apg.

And as was said, is an Absolute Magician at finishing at the rim, with either hand, in all kinds of traffic.
He can still do that now, better than most guards we've ever had.

Had Devo (been allowed to) come back for his R-Sr. season, he likely would have finished up as Syracuse's all-time leading scorer. Let that bake your noodle for a little bit.
 

djcon57

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I don't disagree that we should always be recruiting as good a player as we can get. You will get no argument from me on that. However, the kid is a much better player than the anti Buddy people want to ever admit. I suggest that after he is done, people will look at him differently. And that he will have had two (or three) very good years to come here.

im hard on Buddy’s defense and he plays way too many minutes.

but he’s a good to great shooter and a good offensive player. Suggesting otherwise kills any credibility imo.

as stated repeatedly, on a more complete team, he’d be an amazing piece to a championship squad
 

dasher

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Devo also led the team in assists one season, as a Soph.
Career average 3.2 apg.

And as was said, is an Absolute Magician at finishing at the rim, with either hand, in all kinds of traffic.
He can still do that now, better than most guards we've ever had.

Had Devo (been allowed to) come back for his R-Sr. season, he likely would have finished up as Syracuse's all-time leading scorer. Let that bake your noodle for a little bit.
And Andy would have played less and we just wouldn't have been as good. That is not as big a knock on Devo as it might appear. That team was perfect the way it was. Offense. Defense. Special..oh, wrong sport. I will believe till my dying day that we would have played Duke for the National title. Would we have won? Who knows? But I wouldn't have bet against us.
 

OrangeDW

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I personally think he is a D- as a defender, which is half of the game in reality.

If you weight the GPA, and strip it down to offense & defense, he's not getting above a 2.5 from me. Which isn't a great rating.

Goodine you never saw what he was defensively, but he showed aptitude. Carey was in a similar position.

Not saying they're better, but Buddy is really, really bad on defense.

I don’t.

But personally I think some people (not necessarily you) are going to say he’s a D- on defense no matter what.

The reasons:
1. They don’t actually know, but heard someone else say it so they’re running with it.
2. They have an agenda and this is something that can’t really be refuted by numbers so they’ll hammer it.
3. He doesn’t stand out as fast or get a lot of steals so if they claim he’s bad on D, they’ve got a better chance of going unchecked.

Bryant was really lighting us up when we were pressing for the most part. Our 2-3 and Buddy were not nearly as bad as some were claiming.
 

OrangeDW

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JB has used his forwards to bring the ball up since he started back in 1976,.

Yup. No different than Todd Burgan being our second ball handler in 96. Billy Owens for much of his career. Pace and Joseph did their share of handling the ball. It’s not unusual for us.
 

721Comstock

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And Andy would have played less and we just wouldn't have been as good. That is not as big a knock on Devo as it might appear. That team was perfect the way it was. Offense. Defense. Special..oh, wrong sport. I will believe till my dying day that we would have played Duke for the National title. Would we have won? Who knows? But I wouldn't have bet against us.

Oh, I agree 144% that Devo & Harris was “addition by subtraction” relative to the Shut It Down team, which was a perfect 7 man rotation, and the most complete Syracuse team I’ve ever seen.

/ pours another one out for A0’s knee, and the Natty that never was. Sigh.

It’s just an interesting thought exercise that a guy as polarizing as Devo was, was also one of the best all-around offensive guards we’ve ever had.
 

oTTo113445

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JB has used his forwards to bring the ball up since he started back in 1976,.
We were pretty good at breaking the press last year and should be even better this year. Our Zone is more about cutting the driving lanes on Defense than it is staying in front of your man up top 90% of the time. Good test tonight didn't Niagra play a 3-4 guard lineup last year?
 

OmahaCuse

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Interested to see a athletic press. Braswell, Allen, QG, MD, KR...could cause some serious havoc and turnovers. Can sub FA to play the back and MD for RB
 

CuseFaninVT

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Comparing him to BJ at this point is a stretch. I was just pointing out that the same issues( 30% fg, 12% 3pt, 1/1 assist to TO ratio, only scores on layups and FTs) are rearing their ugly heads at Providence. Hence, he is only playing 12 minutes a game. Its hard to play a guard without a jumper in this day and age.
Can we stop with the Brycen bashing? According to more than a couple posters here with good sources, Brycen leaving was a huge shock to the coaching staff, and one that they tried to fix. JB didn't dump him over the side, he still wanted him on this team.

And that's not necessarily directed at you ORRange - your post was just last in line.
 

dasher

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Can we stop with the Brycen bashing? According to more than a couple posters here with good sources, Brycen leaving was a huge shock to the coaching staff, and one that they tried to fix. JB didn't dump him over the side, he still wanted him on this team.

And that's not necessarily directed at you ORRange - your post was just last in line.
To question someones ability isn't bashing. On the football board, we had a poster refer to some of the guys that have failed to develop as crap. That is bashing and unacceptable. To point out that a kid isn't playing at the school that he transferred to is just a fact. Maybe premature, but still a fact at least right now. A current player on the team takes a lot more "bashing" here.
 

ORRange

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Can we stop with the Brycen bashing? According to more than a couple posters here with good sources, Brycen leaving was a huge shock to the coaching staff, and one that they tried to fix. JB didn't dump him over the side, he still wanted him on this team.

And that's not necessarily directed at you ORRange - your post was just last in line.
There is a segment of the population here that think that he and Jalen should have played more and I think their statistics prove otherwise. I was outspoken about Brycen being a future star and wanted him to succeed but its not JBs fault he didn't. That is the point of my posts. I was upset when Brycen decided to leave.
Now, on the other hand against Bryant I thought Kadary played well in the first half and Joe played bad the whole game. I was outspoken about Kadary not getting playing time in the 2nd half and felt JB was wrong not playing him. See I can bash everyone its just not Brycen. Haha. No offense taken VT.
 

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