Did the run blocking improve or was it just garbage time stuff?

[Millhouse]

I went back to watch these drives. Pat Davis really played well. He had the nice pull block on the Adams 2 yards TD and was pretty solid in pass protection.

upperdeck will have to include the play with 8 minutes left in the 4th quarter, which I think was the final sack we gave up. I re-watched all 5 OL. Pat Davis was the only one who held up his guy, but he also had help from Bergeron. The problem with that double team is that the DE lined up across from Bergeron just had a free rush. It was one of those where even he was surprised and took a wider turn than he needed to.

As for the others on that play. Servais was pushed about 5 yards backwards by the other DT with just one shove. Vetorello stayed in a spot and only used his right hand to block. Adams just backed up into DeVito. It was kind of funny watching over and over again for each one.

And that was the play that #23 for FSU “drew” the flag on Vettorello. I don’t know how that guy for FSU, or Taggart for that matter has any pride at all. He probably doesn’t. If one of our guys ever does that, I hope Dino benches him. They HAVE to start reviewing those.

it bugs me that so many SU fans a) just take it as a given that our offensive line play will always this bad and b) an dual threat qb qb can overcome it

we sat there in disbelief about the tackles against clemson, i still can't believe it

what good is the experience next year's returning starters are getting? there's no way cavanaugh comes back. this year is so worthless, i'm tempted to want welch and a bunch of guys we can just use up and not ruin the young guys

One drawback of an offense that's not run in many places is that we're going to whiff on some assistants hoping that their skills are transferable. I can't say I'm crazy about any Mike Riley tree coaches.

i'm sure other people saw the thread but that nebraska thread after we hired him... woof

 

[TheCusian]

All I know is that Saturday we played the best half of offensive football we've played all year in that second half. And it wasn't all just attributable to prevent, FSU going through the motions, etc.

Is it a sign that the offense might have turned the corner? Evidence that the reconstituted OL has some potential? Did things finally click for DeVito?

Time will tell.

It also has to do with FSU's defense not being that good, 1's or 2's. (They have some NFL players mind you, but collectively they are not great)

 

[RandomGuy]

Why do we run up the middle 95% of the time and pass to the sideline 95% of the time? Is this just me or is this accurate? Seems like we never use the middle of the field in the passing game. Like I said, maybe just me. We hit the TE down the middle of the field for a TD and never see it again, granted it was versus HC but whatever.

Isn't the system designed to utilize extreme spacing to maximize the spread? No one complains when it's working.

While I'd prefer more of a smashmouth spread approach, I think it may be one of the concepts we use to establish space.

 

[orangepassion]

Positive 1st half observations

Watched again our 1st half Offensive drives tonight to see what was going on: Thought our OL was competent both run and pass blocking. Not great, but good enough to score some points. Thought TD really struggled this half, both with missed passes, not throwing quickly enough to open...

syracusefan.com

 

[PhatOrange]

We ran for 75 yards in the 3rd Q and 12 more as we crossed into the 4th Q ending with an Adams 2 yard touchdown run. Something we haven't done all season. This TD drive came with 2:24 left in the 3rd to 13:04 in the 4th. The 1's were still in the game here. We ran for 53 of the 75 yards on the touchdown drive.

In the 4Q with the score 35-10 and getting the ball back with 10 1/2 minutes left we ran for another 79 yards on the 2nd TD drive. (only 10 yards on 2 passes). We didn't see the ball again.

Both TD runs were over the left side in short yardage.

I saw a lot of promising things. The best of which imho, was DeVito. I think something clicked in his head as he started to step up into the pocket and when he ran, he ran north south and ran hard. He didn't go down easily and tried to run over guys. I liked it. To me he was running pissed off. He had runs of 13, 4 and 18. If he continues to do this it will open things up and change the dynamic.

 

[upperdeck]

FSU held wake to 22, nc st to 13, UL to 24, since the first 2 games only Clemson has done much against them.

To think they dont have talent is crazy. they are still all 4-5 star guys

the whole system is run where they aint.. 5-6 in the box run up the middle. 7-8 in the box pass to the outside.

 

[TheCusian]

FSU held wake to 22, nc st to 13, UL to 24, since the first 2 games only Clemson has done much against them.

To think they dont have talent is crazy. they are still all 4-5 star guys

the whole system is run where they aint.. 5-6 in the box run up the middle. 7-8 in the box pass to the outside.

I didn't say they didn't have talent - they do. But they have the #62 ranked D for a reason. Points allowed isn't the greatest measure of how they actually performed for a lot of reasons. They don't have a ton of TFL for example. You'd think with 4-5 star guys they'd be better than us in that dept, but they are not.

 

[upperdeck]

from what i read teams decided to run all quick hitting plays because of pressure they created but i dont know what that means for TFL on runs.. against us though they run blitzed a ton so maybe they just saw our oline collapse and took advantage of it

 

[Millhouse]

Isn't the system designed to utilize extreme spacing to maximize the spread? No one complains when it's working.

While I'd prefer more of a smashmouth spread approach, I think it may be one of the concepts we use to establish space.

even the air raid mesh patterns, the guy is usually not catching in the middle of the field. if they load the box, throw outside, if they don't, run inside.

 

[upperdeck]

we ran plays we havent run much all yr.. how much was playing calling or new personal?

 

[qdawgg]

Isn't the system designed to utilize extreme spacing to maximize the spread? No one complains when it's working.

While I'd prefer more of a smashmouth spread approach, I think it may be one of the concepts we use to establish space.

I think the problem is, when it's not working we sometimes fail to do anything different. TD threw that pass to the sideline over and over again unsuccessfully. I get what the offense is trying to do, force the D to react instead of us reacting to them. That only works if your offense is actually working, when it's not, you have to switch things up. The last 4 years there have been many games where we just stick to our guns and run the same offense all game even when it's clearly not working.

 

[upperdeck]

is this like BBALL where SU keeps missing layups so we should stop shooting them?

Some plays you need to complete for an offense to work.. shortage runs is one.. Simple throws is another..

 

[Millhouse]

FSU held wake to 22, nc st to 13, UL to 24, since the first 2 games only Clemson has done much against them.

To think they dont have talent is crazy. they are still all 4-5 star guys

the whole system is run where they aint.. 5-6 in the box run up the middle. 7-8 in the box pass to the outside.

the mcf-it year was wrecked because we couldn't count people in the box and this year is wrecked because 5 or 6 in the box play like 8 because we are so bad at run blocking. it shouldn't be so hard

throwing out outside doesn't work when it's 3rd and twelve but that doesn't mean the problem is throwing it outside

 

[upperdeck]

there were some good chances Sat that were just missed because throws were rushed..

 

[RandomGuy]

I think the problem is, when it's not working we sometimes fail to do anything different. TD threw that pass to the sideline over and over again unsuccessfully. I get what the offense is trying to do, force the D to react instead of us reacting to them. That only works if your offense is actually working, when it's not, you have to switch things up. The last 4 years there have been many games where we just stick to our guns and run the same offense all game even when it's clearly not working.

Yepp. I think spread concepts emphasize qb/wr positions. Less emphasis on line play. When any of those elements can be neutralized, it can start to get ugly. System is fine, just interdependent. I have no prob trying to make it work.

I think Babers mixed up some line calls this week. Liked the P.Davis pull/Evan Adam's TD. Have we been pulling much this year? Have we been using Elmo less as a full back? Love to see more power concepts with the big bodies.(Dakota,Berg,Adams)

 

[Millhouse]

Maybe the guy averaging 5.1 or 5.3 would have more than 74 rushing yards if they were to get the same 20 carries instead of 11 and 6 respectively. Or maybe they would have only had 3.7 per rush like the guy who had 74. Guess we’ll never know because I’m fairly certain we’re not going to try to find out.

i've never been a huge fan of neal but it's hard to argue with his numbers, he's done fine

but it's amazing how much his conference ypc has gone down this year. i can't imagine how frustrating this is for him. unlike harris, he's done something in the past and unlike harris, he doesn't act like a fool in front of the world

5.78
5.31
6.18
3.39

 

[qdawgg]

Yepp. I think spread concepts emphasize qb/wr positions. Less emphasis on line play. When any of those elements can be neutralized, it can start to get ugly. System is fine, just interdependent. I have no prob trying to make it work.

I think Babers mixed up some line calls this week. Liked the P.Davis pull/Evan Adam's TD. Have we been pulling much this year? Have we been using Elmo less as a full back? Love to see more power concepts with the big bodies.(Dakota,Berg,Adams)

No I definitely don’t think the system itself should be changed. Just at times it seems we can’t/won’t adjust out of it when it’s not working.

 

[qdawgg]

is this like BBALL where SU keeps missing layups so we should stop shooting them?

Some plays you need to complete for an offense to work.. shortage runs is one.. Simple throws is another..

Asking a QB to throw the ball 8-12 yards to the sideline AND to the sideline itself so only the WR can get it is nothing close to a layup. Nor is it a simple throw. There’s a lot of QB’s who can’t do that consistently and asking TD to continue to try to make that throw when he wasn’t able to is silly.

You actually don’t need to complete certain plays for an offense to get rolling. Very simply, you need to find what will work at that particular moment in the game and just, complete plays.

 

[RandomGuy]

No I definitely don’t think the system itself should be changed. Just at times it seems we can’t/won’t adjust out of it when it’s not working.

Same. To your point of sticking to your guns the last 4 years when it's not working? They're coached for the system.

I'm not opposed to tweaks. It does seem like they've started putting a few wrinkles in, on the line. That stuff takes time. As a meathead, I'd be happy with a little power/man sprinkled in with the ZBS, to keep defenses honest. I've seen others use this effectively. We need to keep the defense honest in order for the base system to thrive.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Isn't the system designed to utilize extreme spacing to maximize the spread? No one complains when it's working.

While I'd prefer more of a smashmouth spread approach, I think it may be one of the concepts we use to establish space.

Yeah I am sure but the middle of the field is still part of the field that can be used? If one is focused on using the entire field then use it

 

[HRE Otto IV]

i've never been a huge fan of neal but it's hard to argue with his numbers, he's done fine

but it's amazing how much his conference ypc has gone down this year. i can't imagine how frustrating this is for him. unlike harris, he's done something in the past and unlike harris, he doesn't act like a fool in front of the world

5.78
5.31
6.18
3.39

Neal IMO is the DeVito of running backs. He is good at running straight and getting through a hole quickly. Don’t give him a hole or ask him to do anything else, and he is limited. That being said I think the FSU game was Neal’s best of the year when taking into account HOW he was running.

 

[SWC75]

Yeah I am sure but the middle of the field is still part of the field that can be used? If one is focused on using the entire field then use it

I get that the concept is to draw the defense to the sidelines with the pass and run up the middle. But if you pass to the whole field you put the linebackers into coverage and there are fewer people to contest the line of scrimmage or rush the quarterback. the constant sideline passes are like the constant options to the short side of the field in the Pasqualoni era: draw the defense to that side of the field so an occasional play in the other direction might work. But you want to sustain drives in football and each play should be designed to be a success in and of itself.

 

[PhatOrange]

Also our 2nd possession of the 3rd Quarter (at 9:52 mark), we had a 10 play 61 yard drive that resulted in a turnover on downs.

We had 6 carries for 29 yards. 4.83 yards per carry.

The next drive was the TD drive. 11 carries for 53 yards. 4.81 yards per carry.

both drives against the 1/s.

The next drive, our last, at the 10:04 mark of the 4th we had 9 carries for 78 yards. 8.67 yards per carry.

The last 3 possessions saw 26 carries 160 yards. 6.15 per carry.

Progress? beats me, but lets hope we can build on it.

 

[007]

I get that the concept is to draw the defense to the sidelines with the pass and run up the middle. But if you pass to the whole field you put the linebackers into coverage and there are fewer people to contest the line of scrimmage or rush the quarterback. the constant sideline passes are like the constant options to the short side of the field in the Pasqualoni era: draw the defense to that side of the field so an occasional play in the other direction might work. But you want to sustain drives in football and each play should be designed to be a success in and of itself.

I could be wrong, but in general i don't think the concept is to "draw" the defense anywhere specifically. The concept is to the stretch the field horizontally and vertically, and then run a play to the area where they have the best match up or numbers. Obviously, it is way more nuanced then that and is highly dependent on pre-snap reads and all the players being on the same page at the snap.

 

[Millhouse]

I get that the concept is to draw the defense to the sidelines with the pass and run up the middle. But if you pass to the whole field you put the linebackers into coverage and there are fewer people to contest the line of scrimmage or rush the quarterback. the constant sideline passes are like the constant options to the short side of the field in the Pasqualoni era: draw the defense to that side of the field so an occasional play in the other direction might work. But you want to sustain drives in football and each play should be designed to be a success in and of itself.

your wide formations put the linebackers in coverage before you have to decide whether to throw

they're not throwing outside to set anything up in this offense, you don't set anything up, you just go where the numbers tell you to go.

everything gets blown up too quick and devito's rattled