Did the run blocking improve or was it just garbage time stuff?

[Millhouse]

I could be wrong, but in general i don't think the concept is to "draw" the defense anywhere specifically. The concept is to the stretch the field horizontally and vertically, and then run a play to the area where they have the best match up or numbers. Obviously, it is way more nuanced then that and is highly dependent on pre-snap reads and all the players being on the same page at the snap.

yep and it's not stretched by the routes, it's stretched in the formations with wrs way out wide

should be hard for a defense to disguise what they're doing but this year the few guys in the box can confuse the hell out of our blockers for whatever reason. we have numbers and guys block air, 2 guys get beat like statues and one guy gets sumo wrestled every snap

 

[Chip]

from what i read teams decided to run all quick hitting plays because of pressure they created but i dont know what that means for TFL on runs.. against us though they run blitzed a ton so maybe they just saw our oline collapse and took advantage of it

I'm not an expert, but re-watching the two drives, here's what I saw:

1. Pat Davis looked to be an upgrade. Just seemed like his guy was always blocked, he pulled pretty well when needed. Except for one play that I note below.

2. As Phat mentions above, DeVito took off in a more determined way. i.e. I'm going to get yardage here, not I'm going to see what I can do without getting hurt.

3. It looked like, as others and I think even Dino mentioned, the OL went away from zone blocking. Everyone picked someone and blocked them. And much like the DeVito comment, they took out some of their frustration too.

4. Each of the RBs showed a good burst. I think we all believed they had it, but we haven't seen it.

5. We ran to the outside more.

The one frustrating play was when Moe lost 8 yards. A DT went right between Servais and Davis. I feel like Servais was supposed to at least get in his way a little more because it was going to be hard for Davis to get there. And when he was there, Moe seemed to have no move to get around that 350 lb human.

Overall, I thought it was encouraging. The pessismist would say 'it was against the backups', but those backups play all game. FSU doesn't just play the starting 11 on defense the whole game. It was against players who play meaningful snaps. And they were also recruited to FSU which means they are players that probably could have gone anywhere.

Just seemed like we had more attitude and determination and I hope they can keep that up this week against a BC team coming off an epic beatdown, outgained by 500 yards (674 to 177).

 

[upperdeck]

I would love to have an honest session with the coaches about how the system works.. in some systems you call run/pass and then maybe check out or check blocking based on the D.

in ours most of the time you call the play and then based on some numbers go to run/pass. I still wonder if by scouting us teams get us to go to certain calls and then force us into something bad.. its hard to see without the all 22 view, but since we dont go at speed like we did last yr teams are settling into the D and then coming at us late and thats messing up the oline.

if we continue to go late in the clock teams can continue to change the D late and create havoc. We might be better to go at speed and let the chips fall, but teams wont be able to set up exotic blitzs like Pitt did if we are running at tempo.

It almost looks like FSU early went light in the box which gets us into run plays and then late run blitzes blow it up. pitt did much the same.. If you can play man coverage lots of bad things happen.

the best thing is the last 4 teams we play have a history of also blowing coverages this yr.. all the more reason to go tempo with simplified calls..

 

[Millhouse]

I would love to have an honest session with the coaches about how the system works.. in some systems you call run/pass and then maybe check out or check blocking based on the D.

in ours most of the time you call the play and then based on some numbers go to run/pass. I still wonder if by scouting us teams get us to go to certain calls and then force us into something bad.. its hard to see without the all 22 view, but since we dont go at speed like we did last yr teams are settling into the D and then coming at us late and thats messing up the oline.

if we continue to go late in the clock teams can continue to change the D late and create havoc. We might be better to go at speed and let the chips fall, but teams wont be able to set up exotic blitzs like Pitt did if we are running at tempo.

It almost looks like FSU early went light in the box which gets us into run plays and then late run blitzes blow it up. pitt did much the same.. If you can play man coverage lots of bad things happen.

the best thing is the last 4 teams we play have a history of also blowing coverages this yr.. all the more reason to go tempo with simplified calls..

make splits as wide as possible to deal with those run blitzes, harder for defense to disguise

don't get fancy, just run the old baylor stuff

 

[RandomGuy]

Also our 2nd possession of the 3rd Quarter (at 9:52 mark), we had a 10 play 61 yard drive that resulted in a turnover on downs.

We had 6 carries for 29 yards. 4.83 yards per carry.

The next drive was the TD drive. 11 carries for 53 yards. 4.81 yards per carry.

both drives against the 1/s.

The next drive, our last, at the 10:04 mark of the 4th we had 9 carries for 78 yards. 8.67 yards per carry.

The last 3 possessions saw 26 carries 160 yards. 6.15 per carry.

Progress? beats me, but lets hope we can build on it.

Every one of those runs were between the tackles.

 

[007]

yep and it's not stretched by the routes, it's stretched in the formations with wrs way out wide

should be hard for a defense to disguise what they're doing but this year the few guys in the box can confuse the hell out of our blockers for whatever reason. we have numbers and guys block air, 2 guys get beat like statues and one guy gets sumo wrestled every snap

It is stretched "vertically" by formation because the extra wide splits by the WR on both sides force the FS, SS and Will to make a decision on where to align which impacts coverage responsibilities. The WR(s) with 1:1 coverage reads, or no safety help over the top vs zone, can run go routes. The threat of those go routes vs coverage is what stretches the D vertically. Again, it's more nuanced than that.

 

[upperdeck]

and we have gotten into some great play calling spots.. we end up with jackson 1v1 with no safety help, but then the oline cant hold a block and the play fails. And we end up with 6 in the box and no safety and the oline cant make a block, often 1 block from big play vs loss..

 

[PhatOrange]

Every one of those runs were between the tackles.

Most runs are between the tackles.

Starting with the first play of the series when we got things going - this was the 10 play 61 yard drive

1) Neal had an 8 yard gain on a stretch play to the right side (PDavis and Bergeron) with Elmore behind them. Elmore got to the 2nd level. This was a well blocked play.

2) Neal dive loss of 1. 8 in the box. 6 on the dline including blitzer. both ends and blitzer unblocked and made the tackle in the backfield. Play went left. Elmore lined up on the right side. He and PDavis pulled to the left side but blocked no one. poor call against the D alignment and was way to slow to develop. Unblocked ends basically met Neal when he took the handoff.

3) 3rd and 3 pass for first down on swing pass to Jackson who was in motion on that jet sweep thing they did.

4) On 1st down. Neal run for 4. Stretch play again to the right side with Elmore out front. Neal screws this up bad because he inexplicable cuts it back against the grain. Had he run the play and followed Elmore he would've ran for a mile. Neal should've been on his hip. I don't understand what he's thinking.

I'll do a deeper dive on the rest when I have more time.

 

[bigmike]

We ran for 75 yards in the 3rd Q and 12 more as we crossed into the 4th Q ending with an Adams 2 yard touchdown run. Something we haven't done all season. This TD drive came with 2:24 left in the 3rd to 13:04 in the 4th. The 1's were still in the game here. We ran for 53 of the 75 yards on the touchdown drive.

In the 4Q with the score 35-10 and getting the ball back with 10 1/2 minutes left we ran for another 79 yards on the 2nd TD drive. (only 10 yards on 2 passes). We didn't see the ball again.

Both TD runs were over the left side in short yardage.

I saw a lot of promising things. The best of which imho, was DeVito. I think something clicked in his head as he started to step up into the pocket and when he ran, he ran north south and ran hard. He didn't go down easily and tried to run over guys. I liked it. To me he was running pissed off. He had runs of 13, 4 and 18. If he continues to do this it will open things up and change the dynamic.

Could not agree more with all of your 4th paragraph.

 

[SmilinBob]

Could not agree more with all of your 4th paragraph.

A quick juke left and then hard right and we have a very nice run.

 

[Millhouse]

Most runs are between the tackles.

Starting with the first play of the series when we got things going - this was the 10 play 61 yard drive

1) Neal had an 8 yard gain on a stretch play to the right side (PDavis and Bergeron) with Elmore behind them. Elmore got to the 2nd level. This was a well blocked play.

2) Neal dive loss of 1. 8 in the box. 6 on the dline including blitzer. both ends and blitzer unblocked and made the tackle in the backfield. Play went left. Elmore lined up on the right side. He and PDavis pulled to the left side but blocked no one. poor call against the D alignment and was way to slow to develop. Unblocked ends basically met Neal when he took the handoff.

3) 3rd and 3 pass for first down on swing pass to Jackson who was in motion on that jet sweep thing they did.

4) On 1st down. Neal run for 4. Stretch play again to the right side with Elmore out front. Neal screws this up bad because he inexplicable cuts it back against the grain. Had he run the play and followed Elmore he would've ran for a mile. Neal should've been on his hip. I don't understand what he's thinking.

View attachment 172180

I'll do a deeper dive on the rest when I have more time.

this kind of post is great and it also makes me miserable how is that not a big gain

 

[PhatOrange]

this kind of post is great and it also makes me miserable how is that not a big gain

I remember live he cut back against the grain. It wasn't until now watching the replay I thought wow, what a missed opportunity. I'd bet this makes HCDB miserable to.

 

[SmilinBob]

this kind of post is great and it also makes me miserable how is that not a big gain

Babers talks about leaving some meat on the bone...Moe left a whole 2 foot tenderloin out there.

 

[SouthernCuse]

I thought Bergeron was getting pushed back in pass blocking in the first half. To be expected I suppose, he is a freshman and will get stronger, plus he was fighting hard for position.

 

[Millhouse]

I thought Bergeron was getting pushed back in pass blocking in the first half. To be expected I suppose, he is a freshman and will get stronger, plus he was fighting hard for position.

the way these kids eat and train, there has to be a big jump for lineman in their first couple off seasons. gainzzzz

 

[Kowbelkat]

I went back to watch these drives. Pat Davis really played well. He had the nice pull block on the Adams 2 yards TD and was pretty solid in pass protection.

upperdeck will have to include the play with 8 minutes left in the 4th quarter, which I think was the final sack we gave up. I re-watched all 5 OL. Pat Davis was the only one who held up his guy, but he also had help from Bergeron. The problem with that double team is that the DE lined up across from Bergeron just had a free rush. It was one of those where even he was surprised and took a wider turn than he needed to.

As for the others on that play. Servais was pushed about 5 yards backwards by the other DT with just one shove. Vetorello stayed in a spot and only used his right hand to block. Adams just backed up into DeVito. It was kind of funny watching over and over again for each one.

And that was the play that #23 for FSU “drew” the flag on Vettorello. I don’t know how that guy for FSU, or Taggart for that matter has any pride at all. He probably doesn’t. If one of our guys ever does that, I hope Dino benches him. They HAVE to start reviewing those.

Dino wouldn’t bench Taj .so I think there’s little chance in that

 

[Kowbelkat]

Isn't the system designed to utilize extreme spacing to maximize the spread? No one complains when it's working.

While I'd prefer more of a smashmouth spread approach, I think it may be one of the concepts we use to establish space.

It hasn’t worked so far this year, Bill B’s Pats players say he adjusts series to series, while I know that’s no realistic for us maybe adjust at half just once in a while

 

[upperdeck]

Its really hard to tell how much Tackles get pushed back since the DE can just keep going wider and wider

 

[SWC75]

I'm not an expert, but re-watching the two drives, here's what I saw:

1. Pat Davis looked to be an upgrade. Just seemed like his guy was always blocked, he pulled pretty well when needed. Except for one play that I note below.

2. As Phat mentions above, DeVito took off in a more determined way. i.e. I'm going to get yardage here, not I'm going to see what I can do without getting hurt.

3. It looked like, as others and I think even Dino mentioned, the OL went away from zone blocking. Everyone picked someone and blocked them. And much like the DeVito comment, they took out some of their frustration too.

4. Each of the RBs showed a good burst. I think we all believed they had it, but we haven't seen it.

5. We ran to the outside more.

The one frustrating play was when Moe lost 8 yards. A DT went right between Servais and Davis. I feel like Servais was supposed to at least get in his way a little more because it was going to be hard for Davis to get there. And when he was there, Moe seemed to have no move to get around that 350 lb human.

Overall, I thought it was encouraging. The pessismist would say 'it was against the backups', but those backups play all game. FSU doesn't just play the starting 11 on defense the whole game. It was against players who play meaningful snaps. And they were also recruited to FSU which means they are players that probably could have gone anywhere.

Just seemed like we had more attitude and determination and I hope they can keep that up this week against a BC team coming off an epic beatdown, outgained by 500 yards (674 to 177).

DeVito's 7 sacks included some plays where he scrambled in this way and just didn't quite get back to the line of scrimmage, as opposed to him disappearing under the waves in what should have been his pocket. .

 

[Millhouse]

Its really hard to tell how much Tackles get pushed back since the DE can just keep going wider and wider

That was what was so frustrating against Clemson to me. The offense should want DE a mile away. All it takes a a little shove out wide and the ball's out or the rb is gone up the middle. The tackles can't move, the middle gets caved in, and we have an 80s seven step drop wait all day qb.

I still think devito has a chance to be special later but is it worth shooting for the moon, probably not. Some guy who can just toss it around quickly would suffice

 

[OrangeDW]

You can’t judge how well the offense played and great stats when the other team had the game in hand. Talking about how good our offense was when the game was over it’s just ridiculous.

3 ACC games in a row we didn’t do squat on offense until the other team went into either prevent mode or put their backups in.

And we’ve STILL got people coming here talking like “well if we can just move the ball like we did at the end of the game!”

 

[kcsu]

Serva spent an entire off season preparing to be our LT. He just doesn't have the build and or lower body strength to play center this year. Watch the games and focus on him. He cant hold point. When the center is weak the entire line collapses. Next year we need to move one of our guards to Center or bring someone in.

 

[PhatOrange]

3 ACC games in a row we didn’t do squat on offense until the other team went into either prevent mode or put their backups in.

And we’ve STILL got people coming here talking like “well if we can just move the ball like we did at the end of the game!”

Upon re-watching this is not true for FSU. They did not go in prevent mode.

Score 21-3. The 10 play 61 yard drive in the 3rd Q we moved the ball to the 14 yard line before turning it over on downs. The entire series FSU blitzed every single play with anywhere from 5-8 in the box. We moved the ball well here against their 1's and pressure. (we also had no penalties - key).

(side note - after the downs FSU goes 85 yards for a TD. They converted a crucial 3rd and 10 but more importantly this TD doesn't happen if Cisco makes the easy INT and we have the ball back inside the 30 yard line.)

At 35-3 the game is out of reach at this point. However;

1st play after 35-3 - SU ball, FSU has 7 in the box. 3 down lineman, 2 wide DEs and 2 backers 4 yards off the ball over the guards. They blitz 1 linebacker left. Bergeron picks up and seals the blitzing linebacker. Howard has a nice burst through that hole and picks up 9. Pat Davis also gets to the 2nd level here and picks up the other LB.

Next play 4 down lineman and 2 LBs in the box. They again blitz this time the right side linebacker. Bergeron again wins the seal on the DT, then slides off and picks up the other LB and Hackett kicks out the DE. Howard rips off 18 here and got tripped up by a hand.

3rd play at 35-3; 3 down lineman, a wide DE standing up, 2 LBs and lets call it a rover are all in the box - that's 7 in the box. They've got press coverage on the two WRs, a DB 7 yards off the slot and a deep safety. At the snap they rush 5. Stretch run over the right side, Howard picks up 1. play was to the right but the left side of the line blew it up.

4th play, FSU again playing press coverage with 5 down lineman and 2 LBs in the box. They rush 5 here no blitz. Pass to Jackson 1st down.

5th play. Ball on the FSU 42 yd line. 4 down lineman, 2 backers in the box. Corners in press man. 2 deep safeties. This is the first time they go cover 2 with the safeties. No blitz. Neal run up the gut for 3.

6th play. ball on 39 yd line. 6 down lineman, with a LB and safety in the box 4 yards off the ball - 8 in the box. Corners are 6 yards off the WRs. The slot is completely uncovered here. It's an easy TD. DeVito reads it and is looking at the slot but FSU sends 6 on a blitz and the 2 LBs in the box they drop into coverage. Pocket closes too fast , DeVito tucks and runs north/south and picks up 13 to the 29 yard line.

I'll stop here for now. The first 6 plays of the TD drive, FSU rushed 6, 5, 5, 5, 4 and 6, blitzing linebackers 4 of 6 times. No way no how did FSU call off the dogs on the TD drive. Anything but. What I see with the first 2 drives where we moved the ball FSU rushed and blitzed 5 or more on every single play but 1. (and doing some scans of numbers this was against their starters and 2-deep rotation).

Really liked what I started seeing from Bergeron and Davis run blocking, but particularly Bergeron and we seemed to lean on running right.

 

[RF2044]

Serva spent an entire off season preparing to be our LT. He just doesn't have the build and or lower body strength to play center this year. Watch the games and focus on him. He cant hold point. When the center is weak the entire line collapses. Next year we need to move one of our guards to Center or bring someone in.

It would be ideal if one of our guards [either Davis or Adams] had some versatility to potentially shift to center. But I assume this hasn't happened because they can't snap from the shotgun, otherwise it would have already happened and Servais would be back at LT.

 

[orangecuse]

3 ACC games in a row we didn’t do squat on offense until the other team went into either prevent mode or put their backups in.

And we’ve STILL got people coming here talking like “well if we can just move the ball like we did at the end of the game!”

No doubt. It's like, dang, if I could only get those beauties to give me the time of day around 11 or so, vs. who's left in the joint at 1:50...I'd be alright!

 

[TheCusian]

3 ACC games in a row we didn’t do squat on offense until the other team went into either prevent mode or put their backups in.

And we’ve STILL got people coming here talking like “well if we can just move the ball like we did at the end of the game!”

this would make more sense if we were down 35 at the end of those games. but for NC State and Pitt - it was a two score game, we scored and then it was a one score game late. you can call it prevent if you want - but I guarantee you Doeren and Narduzzi were not thinking it was over

Upon re-watching this is not true for FSU. They did not go in prevent mode.

The 10 play 61 yard drive in the 3rd Q we moved the ball to the 14 yard line before turning it over on downs. The entire series FSU blitzed every single play with anywhere from 5-8 in the box. (DeVito imo butchered it down in the redzone.) We moved the ball well here against their 1's and pressure. (we also had no penalties).

(side note - after getting the ball FSU goes 85 yards for a TD. They converted a crucial 3rd and 10 but more importantly this TD doesn't happen if Cisco makes the easy INT and we have the ball back inside the 30 yard line.)

At 35-3 the game is out of reach at this point. However,

1st play - SU ball, FSU has 7 in the box. 3 down lineman, 2 wide DEs and 2 backers 4 yards off the ball over the guards. They blitz 1 linebacker left. Bergeron picks up and seals the blitzing linebacker. Howard has a nice burst through that hole and picks up 9. Pat Davis also gets to the 2nd level here and picks up the other LB.

Next play 4 down lineman and 2 LBs in the box. They again blitz the right side linebacker. Bergeron again wins the seal on the DT, then slides off and picks up the other LB and Hackett kicks out the DE. Howard rips off 18 here and got tripped up by a hand.

3rd play at 35-3; 3 down lineman, a wide DE standing up, 2 LBs and lets call it a rover are all in the box - that's 7 in the box. They've got press coverage on the two WRs, a DB 7 yards off the slot and a deep safety. At the snap they rush 5. Stretch run over the right side, Howard picks up 1. play was to the right but the left side of the line blew it up.

4th play, FSU again playing press coverage with 5 down lineman and 2 LBs in the box. They rush 5 here no blitz. Pass to Jackson 1st down.

5th play. Ball on the FSU 42 yd line. 4 down lineman, 2 backers in the box. Corners in press man. 2 deep safeties. This is the first time they go cover 2 with the safeties. No blitz. Neal run up the gut for 3.

6th play. ball on 39 yd line. 6 down lineman, with a LB and safety in the box 4 yards off the ball - 8 in the box. Corners are 6 yards off the WRs. The slot is completely uncovered here. It's an easy TD. DeVito reads it and is looking at the slot but FSU sends 6 on a blitz and the 2 in the box they drop into coverage. Pocket closes too fast , DeVito tucks and runs north/south and picks up 13 to the 29 yard line.

I'll stop here for now. The first 6 plays of the TD drive, FSU rushed 6, 5, 5, 5, 4 and 6, blitzing linebackers 4 of 6 times and not once did they go 3 down lineman. No way no how did FSU call off the dogs on the TD drive. Anything but. What I see with the first 2 drives where we moved the ball FSU rushed and blitzed 5 or more on every single play but 1. (and doing some scans of numbers this was against their starters and 2-deep rotation).

Really liked what I started seeing from Bergeron and Davis run blocking, but particularly Bergeron and we seemed to lean on running right.

That’s what Dino was alluding to in his Monday press conference. Great post.