Dino and NY | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Dino and NY

BrooklynCuse said:
It’s interesting that two of SU’s best players over the last couple of years and both will get drafted are from NY.

Is Dino and staff making inroads in recruiting? People say NY doesn’t produce much talent but does produce All Americans. What needs to be done to get the next Trill and Cisco in-state?
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i believe nyc 4 boro's long island., downstate counties and western ny are areas that we should focus on, in addition to the nj md,dc,fl. pa etc.
 
LeMoyneCuse said:
I was watching Buffalo-NIU last night. I want to say Buffalo started one lineman from Buffalo and two from Rochester (could be the other way around).

Ultimately, that's the problem. The D1 talent in Upstate, for the most part, is low G5 talent.
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UB starters, according to ourlads, which was updated 11/2/20:

Nunn WR Tampa, FL SR
Johnson WR Windor, ON SR
Ruiz WR Fredonia, NY SR
Awosika LT Plymouth, MN SR
Gall LG Cincinnati, OH JR
Novitsky C Victor, NY SO
Klenk RG Pittsford, NY SR
Fuzak RT Williamsville, NY SR
Lefebvre Victor, NY TE SR
Patterson, Glendale, MD RB JR

Riggins DE Webster, NY SR (verbaled to SU, Babers passed)
Wilson DT Jersey City, NJ JR
McGee DT Sumter, SC JR
Koonce DE Peekskill, NY SR
Terry LB Pittsburgh, PA JR
Patterson LB Glendale, MD JR
Wright KB, Richmond, VA SR
Washington CB Charlotte, NC JR
Gross SS Rochester, NY SO
Hill FS Passiac, NJ SR
Abbas Irvington, NJ CB SR

I have them with 8 starters from NY, though RB Patterson is also listed as a starting LB, which surely is not true.

Of those 8 starters, 4 are on the OL (counting the TE) and 2 are on the DL. So more than half of their starting linemen are from New York.

Their staff appears to be better at identifying talent than the Syracuse staff. At least identifying raw talent that can eventually be developed.

But the thing that strikes me the most looking at the UB starters is the experience level.

No freshman starting. At any of the 22 starting positions.

One sophomore starting on offense and defense.

Everyone else a junior or a senior.

When we were a team that regularly had winning seasons and bowl games, we were like this. You can't win playing a lot of sophomores, red-shirt frosh and true frosh. This has to end.

Dino and his staff have to get the kids that come here to buy in and stay for 4 or 5 years consistently. Part of our problem this year is bad luck with injuries but part is all the turnover we have year after year.

I look forward to the day when we have 20 of our 22 starters on offense and defense juniors or seniors. I guarantee you, if we can get to that point, we will have a hell of a lot better than we are now.
 
sutomcat said:
UB starters, according to ourlads, which was updated 11/2/20:

Nunn WR Tampa, FL SR
Johnson WR Windor, ON SR
Ruiz WR Fredonia, NY SR
Awosika LT Plymouth, MN SR
Gall LG Cincinnati, OH JR
Novitsky C Victor, NY SO
Klenk RG Pittsford, NY SR
Fuzak RT Williamsville, NY SR
Lefebvre Victor, NY TE SR
Patterson, Glendale, MD RB JR

Riggins DE Webster, NY SR (verbaled to SU, Babers passed)
Wilson DT Jersey City, NJ JR
McGee DT Sumter, SC JR
Koonce DE Peekskill, NY SR
Terry LB Pittsburgh, PA JR
Patterson LB Glendale, MD JR
Wright KB, Richmond, VA SR
Washington CB Charlotte, NC JR
Gross SS Rochester, NY SO
Hill FS Passiac, NJ SR
Abbas Irvington, NJ CB SR

I have them with 8 starters from NY, though RB Patterson is also listed as a starting LB, which surely is not true.

Of those 8 starters, 4 are on the OL (counting the TE) and 2 are on the DL. So more than half of their starting linemen are from New York.

Their staff appears to be better at identifying talent than the Syracuse staff. At least identifying raw talent that can eventually be developed.

But the thing that strikes me the most looking at the UB starters is the experience level.

No freshman starting. At any of the 22 starting positions.

One sophomore starting on offense and defense.

Everyone else a junior or a senior.

When we were a team that regularly had winning seasons and bowl games, we were like this. You can't win playing a lot of sophomores, red-shirt frosh and true frosh. This has to end.

Dino and his staff have to get the kids that come here to buy in and stay for 4 or 5 years consistently. Part of our problem this year is bad luck with injuries but part is all the turnover we have year after year.

I look forward to the day when we have 20 of our 22 starters on offense and defense juniors or seniors. I guarantee you, if we can get to that point, we will have a hell of a lot better than we are now.
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How many of those NY kids do you think can play at P5 level vs MAC level?
 
PAcuse said:
How many of those NY kids do you think can play at P5 level vs MAC level?
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I think about half could, at least as juniors and seniors. UB is good. Especially on offense.

I think Dino undervalues kids from upstate NY. Guys like McDuffie and Riggins are really good college players he had coming here and turned away.

He needs to do a better job in player evaluation. Taking Chance instead of Brock Purdy is another example. I think he focuses too much on raw athletic ability and not enough on things like toughness, work ethic and leadership. It is fine to take some raw athletes that might not be great with the intangibles but you need to mix in some hard working over achievers with the uber talented kids to get the best results.

Great athletes that are gone in a year or two don't help the bottom line at all.
 
sutomcat said:
I think about half could, at least as juniors and seniors. UB is good. Especially on offense.

I think Dino undervalues kids from upstate NY. Guys like McDuffie and Riggins are really good college players he had coming here and turned away.

He needs to do a better job in player evaluation. Taking Chance instead of Brock Purdy is another example. I think he focuses too much on raw athletic ability and not enough on things like toughness, work ethic and leadership. It is fine to take some raw athletes that might not be great with the intangibles but you need to mix in some hard working over achievers with the uber talented kids to get the best results.

Great athletes that are gone in a year or two don't help the bottom line at all.
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Thanks, I've been trying to make a point of catching more of Buffalos games but keep missing them.
 
sutomcat said:
Their staff appears to be better at identifying talent than the Syracuse staff. At least identifying raw talent that can eventually be developed.

But the thing that strikes me the most looking at the UB starters is the experience level.
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The first part of your statement is untrue. Talent is a pyramid, and there are fewer guys who can play at a high level consistently in the ACC than in the MAC. To that end, Buffalo plays tough against their one P5 opponent a year, but does not win. (Not counting Rutgers in 2018.) While Buffalo is a good MAC team, they are not clearly better than their conference peers, like Western Michigan was under Fleck in 2016.

There is something to be said for developing talent and Syracuse needs to get there. But there's a fine line between taking flyers on non-P5 level guys and getting sure things.
 
LeMoyneCuse said:
The first part of your statement is untrue. Talent is a pyramid, and there are fewer guys who can play at a high level consistently in the ACC than in the MAC. To that end, Buffalo plays tough against their one P5 opponent a year, but does not win. (Not counting Rutgers in 2018.) While Buffalo is a good MAC team, they are not clearly better than their conference peers, like Western Michigan was under Fleck in 2016.

There is something to be said for developing talent and Syracuse needs to get there. But there's a fine line between taking flyers on non-P5 level guys and getting sure things.
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I think you have your first sentence backwards. Assuming that is the case, I agree that the ACC has more talent than the MAC does but that has nothing to do with me saying "Their staff appears to be better at identifying talent than the Syracuse staff. At least identifying raw talent that can eventually be developed."

I don't advocate taking flyers on non-P5 level guys but I do advocate taking P5 level players like McDuffie of BC, Riggins of UB and Cam DeGeorge of UL, all starting and making major contributions for their teams, all players Dino and his staff had locked up for him, and all players they decided to pass on.

There are many other examples, going from players like Steve Scott of Indiana to Brock Purdy of Iowa State. The staff has not always done a great job evaluating players and deciding who they should be taking into the program. That is my opinion and these are all facts that back my opinion up.
 
CIL said:
NDSU would probably finish 3-8 every year if they played in the ACC.

Yes, they have upset some BCS teams, but they are not the FB equivalent of Gonzaga. Dartmouth maybe.
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They would finish in the middle of the ACC. Crush SU this year.
 
sutomcat said:
I think you have your first sentence backwards. Assuming that is the case, I agree that the ACC has more talent than the MAC does but that has nothing to do with me saying "Their staff appears to be better at identifying talent than the Syracuse staff. At least identifying raw talent that can eventually be developed."

I don't advocate taking flyers on non-P5 level guys but I do advocate taking P5 level players like McDuffie of BC, Riggins of UB and Cam DeGeorge of UL, all starting and making major contributions for their teams, all players Dino and his staff had locked up for him, and all players they decided to pass on.

There are many other examples, going from players like Steve Scott of Indiana to Brock Purdy of Iowa State. The staff has not always done a great job evaluating players and deciding who they should be taking into the program. That is my opinion and these are all facts that back my opinion up.
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First paragraph, I mean exactly what I said. It's easier to find raw talent and develop it when it doesn't need to grow into P5-level athleticism and skill across the board. You can get away with less size / speed / strength / skill in the MAC and therefore have a wider band of players to choose from.

Otherwise, you're mentioning individual names. You can't build a roster on guys who just so happen to pan out because not enough of them do. As we've seen with Syracuse, and they focus their recruiting on areas that are bigger hotbeds of talent.
 
kcsu said:
NY had about 100 times more players than ND.
NDSU which has won more National Championships than any other college football program always fields a dominant OL. If you review their roster almost every OL is from North Dakota or Minnesota. We need better talent evaluation, training, and most importantly OL coaching. If NDSU can find solid players in ND we can certainly find solid kids in NY.
I hope we continue to recruit the state aggressively.
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Are you comparing ND lineman to other FCS offensive lines or P5 offensive lines? Not sure how you can determine that they are better lineman and better coached unless their schedule is full of P5 teams.
 
sutomcat said:
I think you have your first sentence backwards. Assuming that is the case, I agree that the ACC has more talent than the MAC does but that has nothing to do with me saying "Their staff appears to be better at identifying talent than the Syracuse staff. At least identifying raw talent that can eventually be developed."

I don't advocate taking flyers on non-P5 level guys but I do advocate taking P5 level players like McDuffie of BC, Riggins of UB and Cam DeGeorge of UL, all starting and making major contributions for their teams, all players Dino and his staff had locked up for him, and all players they decided to pass on.

There are many other examples, going from players like Steve Scott of Indiana to Brock Purdy of Iowa State. The staff has not always done a great job evaluating players and deciding who they should be taking into the program. That is my opinion and these are all facts that back my opinion up.
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I think they do a better job at developing players. Just a couple of examples, Novitsky was a 250 pound TE /DL they made into a center. Riggins was a LB/RB that did a lot of good things in HS but wasnt dominate a 1 particular position. They put him at DE and now he is shining. I give the UB staff props for developing them and competing collectively at a high level in the MAC.
 
Newhouser said:
Two out of 90 and I don't think it helps attendance. We need to focus on good football states.
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We need to focus on good football players, regardless of where they're from. If NY kids look good enough, we're stupid to ignore them. We need to take advantage of anyone good enough that we can get that's close because there are so few and we rarely have a proximity advantage.
 
Last edited:
Until Syracuse gets more of the top players form the Northeast, Syracuse will consistently struggle in the ACC. That is how Syracuse won before and it is how they need to do it again. Marrone seemed to understand this. Don't get me wrong, still go to Florida and Georgia for speed and athletes, but build the foundation around Northeastern kids.

Looking at the recruits in Syracuse's backyard: NY, MA, CT, NJ, and PA, Syracuse is getting almost no players.

Data from 2016 to 2020 recruiting classes:

Syracuse recruits:
NY Top 15: 4 out of 60 players.
MA Top 10: 2 out of 40 players.
CT Top 10: 1 out of 40 players.
NJ Top 30: 2 out of 120 players.
PA Top 30: 2 out of 120 players.

So, of the top 360 players in the Northeast over the past 4 years, Syracuse got 11. That is unacceptable.

And, for those who say NY State does not produce talent, there are 35 players from NY currently in the NFL. How many went to Syracuse, the only P5 program in NY? 1, Riley Dixon, punter. Out of the 35 in the NFL here is where they went to school:

P5: 16
G5: 11
FCS: 6
Below FCS: 2

I think Syracuse should be able to recruit against the G5 and FCS schools, and should do better against the P5s.

And, Syracuse has struggled with line play over the years. Guess what, NY has 7 O-linemen and 10 D-lineman in the NFL, and not one of them went to Syracuse. Linemen, in many case, are development positions, so players are overlooked in high school. Where did the 17 NFL linemen go to college?

P5: 6
G5: 7
FCS: 3
Below FCS: 1

NY State does produce football talent, but it is generally underrated as the kids do not play as much football as in the South and they are not as developed.
 
money3189 said:
Are you comparing ND lineman to other FCS offensive lines or P5 offensive lines? Not sure how you can determine that they are better lineman and better coached unless their schedule is full of P5 teams.
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Watch their games.
 
kcsu said:
Watch their games.
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Since 2011: 127-8
Beat: Kansas, Kansas State , Iowa State, Minnesota, Colorado State

15 National Championships.

Of course i dont know how we would do against them but suffice to say we would have to play very solid football to win.

SU will lose more games this year more loses in one year than NDSU has lost in total since 2011.
 
JimBoston said:
Until Syracuse gets more of the top players form the Northeast, Syracuse will consistently struggle in the ACC. That is how Syracuse won before and it is how they need to do it again. Marrone seemed to understand this. Don't get me wrong, still go to Florida and Georgia for speed and athletes, but build the foundation around Northeastern kids.

Looking at the recruits in Syracuse's backyard: NY, MA, CT, NJ, and PA, Syracuse is getting almost no players.

Data from 2016 to 2020 recruiting classes:

Syracuse recruits:
NY Top 15: 4 out of 60 players.
MA Top 10: 2 out of 40 players.
CT Top 10: 1 out of 40 players.
NJ Top 30: 2 out of 120 players.
PA Top 30: 2 out of 120 players.

So, of the top 360 players in the Northeast over the past 4 years, Syracuse got 11. That is unacceptable.

And, for those who say NY State does not produce talent, there are 35 players from NY currently in the NFL. How many went to Syracuse, the only P5 program in NY? 1, Riley Dixon, punter. Out of the 35 in the NFL here is where they went to school:

P5: 16
G5: 11
FCS: 6
Below FCS: 2

I think Syracuse should be able to recruit against the G5 and FCS schools, and should do better against the P5s.

And, Syracuse has struggled with line play over the years. Guess what, NY has 7 O-linemen and 10 D-lineman in the NFL, and not one of them went to Syracuse. Linemen, in many case, are development positions, so players are overlooked in high school. Where did the 17 NFL linemen go to college?

P5: 6
G5: 7
FCS: 3
Below FCS: 1

NY State does produce football talent, but it is generally underrated as the kids do not play as much football as in the South and they are not as developed.
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Thanks for the breakdown. Gotta have Chandler Jones on there too
 
kcsu said:
Since 2011: 127-8
Beat: Kansas, Kansas State , Iowa State, Minnesota, Colorado State

15 National Championships.

Of course i dont know how we would do against them but suffice to say we would have to play very solid football to win.

SU will lose more games this year more loses in one year than NDSU has lost in total since 2011.
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Sorry i forgot one more win.
NDSU beat 13th Ranked Iowa at Iowa. Everyone of their victories was on the road.
 
JimBoston said:
Until Syracuse gets more of the top players form the Northeast, Syracuse will consistently struggle in the ACC. That is how Syracuse won before and it is how they need to do it again. Marrone seemed to understand this. Don't get me wrong, still go to Florida and Georgia for speed and athletes, but build the foundation around Northeastern kids.

Looking at the recruits in Syracuse's backyard: NY, MA, CT, NJ, and PA, Syracuse is getting almost no players.

Data from 2016 to 2020 recruiting classes:

Syracuse recruits:
NY Top 15: 4 out of 60 players.
MA Top 10: 2 out of 40 players.
CT Top 10: 1 out of 40 players.
NJ Top 30: 2 out of 120 players.
PA Top 30: 2 out of 120 players.

So, of the top 360 players in the Northeast over the past 4 years, Syracuse got 11. That is unacceptable.

And, for those who say NY State does not produce talent, there are 35 players from NY currently in the NFL. How many went to Syracuse, the only P5 program in NY? 1, Riley Dixon, punter. Out of the 35 in the NFL here is where they went to school:

P5: 16
G5: 11
FCS: 6
Below FCS: 2

I think Syracuse should be able to recruit against the G5 and FCS schools, and should do better against the P5s.

And, Syracuse has struggled with line play over the years. Guess what, NY has 7 O-linemen and 10 D-lineman in the NFL, and not one of them went to Syracuse. Linemen, in many case, are development positions, so players are overlooked in high school. Where did the 17 NFL linemen go to college?

P5: 6
G5: 7
FCS: 3
Below FCS: 1

NY State does produce football talent, but it is generally underrated as the kids do not play as much football as in the South and they are not as developed.
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53 NFL players on an active roster x 32 teams = 1696 players. That's needle in a haystack numbers.
 
Bayside44 said:
53 NFL players on an active roster x 32 teams = 1696 players. That's needle in a haystack numbers.
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1696 divided by 50 states equals 34 players per state which is how many NY state produces. And, there is only 1 P5 school in NY. Don’t you think Syracuse should have produced more than 1 current NFL player from NY? You are not going to win a national championship with only NY players, but you can produce a consistently good team with a core of NY players surrounded by kids from PA, NJ, CT, MD/DC with some speed from FL and GA.
 
JimBoston said:
1696 divided by 50 states equals 34 players per state which is how many NY state produces. And, there is only 1 P5 school in NY. Don’t you think Syracuse should have produced more than 1 current NFL player from NY? You are not going to win a national championship with only NY players, but you can produce a consistently good team with a core of NY players surrounded by kids from PA, NJ, CT, MD/DC with some speed from FL and GA.
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I agree. But don’t forget Chandler Jones is an NYer as well as Riley Dixon
 
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