Dino and NY

[NJCuse97]

1696 divided by 50 states equals 34 players per state which is how many NY state produces. And, there is only 1 P5 school in NY. Don’t you think Syracuse should have produced more than 1 current NFL player from NY? You are not going to win a national championship with only NY players, but you can produce a consistently good team with a core of NY players surrounded by kids from PA, NJ, CT, MD/DC with some speed from FL and GA.

What does that also say about UConn, Maine, Vermont, UNH, heck Rutgers. Delaware too? Your average per state to number of D1 football programs doesn’t work. Also those are current numbers, not per year. NY doesn’t produce 35 NFL players per year. Some players like linemen have very long careers.

I am all for more local talent, but not for the sake of them being local. Yes we could have hit on more of them, but we have all witnessed how NY kids get stars in their eyes when blue bloods come calling, and despite our history, please don’t suggest we are on the level of ND, Bama, or OSU and Michigan in the eyes of current recruits.

 

[Newhouser]

Oh shoot did you coach them? Sorry about that. Ok let me think.

Ok Ishaq Williams didn’t commit to SU but didn’t live up to expectations

Adonis Kinsley

 

[CapitalO]

Good point. A lot of those kids go to NJ private school powers. Some kids are going to Connecticut prep schools now.

Agee with both of you on the private school scene even Canadian kids are going that route not just in FB but BB also NYS has Milford Academy which for some reason is not as popular as it used to be maybe because other schools in the northeast have cut into their enrollment , my solution is we need to build a brand new beautiful private school in Skaneateles NY. and have SWAG DADDY live on that campus !!!!

 

[money3189]

Agee with both of you on the private school scene even Canadian kids are going that route not just in FB but BB also NYS has Milford Academy which for some reason is not as popular as it used to be maybe because other schools in the northeast have cut into their enrollment , my solution is we need to build a brand new beautiful private school in Skaneateles NY. and have SWAG DADDY live on that campus !!!!

That would be good

 

[JimBoston]

What does that also say about UConn, Maine, Vermont, UNH, heck Rutgers. Delaware too? Your average per state to number of D1 football programs doesn’t work. Also those are current numbers, not per year. NY doesn’t produce 35 NFL players per year. Some players like linemen have very long careers.

I am all for more local talent, but not for the sake of them being local. Yes we could have hit on more of them, but we have all witnessed how NY kids get stars in their eyes when blue bloods come calling, and despite our history, please don’t suggest we are on the level of ND, Bama, or OSU and Michigan in the eyes of current recruits.

Here is another way to look at it. There are 163 players in the NFL who are from NY, PA, NJ, and New England. How many of them went to Syracuse? 4. That's totally unacceptable.

And, to your argument of bigger programs coming into NY to grab top prospects, out of the 35 NY kids in the NFL, only 4 went to top programs, 3 from Penn St. and 1 from Ohio St.

Here are the NFL players from the local FBS programs recruited from NY, PA, NJ, and New England:

Penn St. 23
Temple 20
Rutgers 14
Pitt 13
BC 9
UConn 8
Syracuse 4
Buffalo 2
UMass 1

Don't you think Syracuse should produce more than 4 NFL players from the recruiting backyard? This has to be fixed. Temple (TEMPLE!) is doing a far better job of finding recruits in NJ than Syracuse. Unacceptable.

 

[BrooklynCuse]

Here is another way to look at it. There are 163 players in the NFL who are from NY, PA, NJ, and New England. How many of them went to Syracuse? 4. That's totally unacceptable.

And, to your argument of bigger programs coming into NY to grab top prospects, out of the 35 NY kids in the NFL, only 4 went to top programs, 3 from Penn St. and 1 from Ohio St.

Here are the NFL players from the local FBS programs recruited from NY, PA, NJ, and New England:

Penn St. 23
Temple 20
Rutgers 14
Pitt 13
BC 9
UConn 8
Syracuse 4
Buffalo 2
UMass 1

Don't you think Syracuse should produce more than 4 NFL players from the recruiting backyard? This has to be fixed. Temple (TEMPLE!) is doing a far better job of finding recruits in NJ than Syracuse. Unacceptable.

I agree. Dino really needs to concentrate more on the Tri-State area. Either we are losing recruiting battles with Temple and UConn or they are better at evaluating talent.

Yes what ever happened to Milford Academy?

 

[money3189]

Here is another way to look at it. There are 163 players in the NFL who are from NY, PA, NJ, and New England. How many of them went to Syracuse? 4. That's totally unacceptable.

And, to your argument of bigger programs coming into NY to grab top prospects, out of the 35 NY kids in the NFL, only 4 went to top programs, 3 from Penn St. and 1 from Ohio St.

Here are the NFL players from the local FBS programs recruited from NY, PA, NJ, and New England:

Penn St. 23
Temple 20
Rutgers 14
Pitt 13
BC 9
UConn 8
Syracuse 4
Buffalo 2
UMass 1

Don't you think Syracuse should produce more than 4 NFL players from the recruiting backyard? This has to be fixed. Temple (TEMPLE!) is doing a far better job of finding recruits in NJ than Syracuse. Unacceptable.

We absolutely need to get more guys in the NFL. At some point you have to factor in a player’s work ethic. The hard work, film study, commitment to physical training and mental strength. Those are some of many factors that allow players to make NFL rosters after 4/5 years on a campus. You can’t put it all on just finding the most talent. There’s a lot of less talented kids make the NFL. Just last year 163 of the 257 players drafted were 3 star or lower.

 

[sufandu]

I agree. Dino really needs to concentrate more on the Tri-State area. Either we are losing recruiting battles with Temple and UConn or they are better at evaluating talent.

Yes what ever happened to Milford Academy?

It would be interesting to see when the players referenced entered the NFL. A fair number may have preceded Dino. As someone said earlier, we have 3 of the top NY prospects committed in our next class. Cisco and Trill are both NY guys. Maybe Dino is trying to emphasize tri-state guys. If he didn't have strong recruiting ties to those areas initially, it may take time to build those relationships.

 

[BrooklynCuse]

It would be interesting to see when the players referenced entered the NFL. A fair number may have preceded Dino. As someone said earlier, we have 3 of the top NY prospects committed in our next class. Cisco and Trill are both NY guys. Maybe Dino is trying to emphasize tri-state guys. If he didn't have strong recruiting ties to those areas initially, it may take time to build those relationships.

Yes it does seem like Dino is gaining steam in the tri-state area, a region he probably never recruited. 3 or 4 top NY guys every year would be great

 

[CuseGrad94]

Yes it does seem like Dino is gaining steam in the tri-state area, a region he probably never recruited. 3 or 4 top NY guys every year would be great

I agree that Dino is gaining steam in the Tri-State. This is why I cringe when everyone always screams that we need a coaching change. So much of recruiting is relationships, and when you have stability you can build relationships. With Dino coming in he and his staff had to develop these relationships. When P and his staff were here they could get in and see any kid in the NE, wouldn't mean that the kid would commit, but they generally would listen to what the coaches had to say. If you aren't State U that kids grow up dreaming of going to, you have to have a foot in the door. After P, GERG struggled in the NE, Marrone had connections because he was from here and his coaches had NE ties. HCSS already had established relationships in the NE from being here.

 

[BrooklynCuse]

I agree that Dino is gaining steam in the Tri-State. This is why I cringe when everyone always screams that we need a coaching change. So much of recruiting is relationships, and when you have stability you can build relationships. With Dino coming in he and his staff had to develop these relationships. When P and his staff were here they could get in and see any kid in the NE, wouldn't mean that the kid would commit, but they generally would listen to what the coaches had to say. If you aren't State U that kids grow up dreaming of going to, you have to have a foot in the door. After P, GERG struggled in the NE, Marrone had connections because he was from here and his coaches had NE ties. HCSS already had established relationships in the NE from being here.

Admittedly I’m a total homer and would love to have 80% of the team from the North East. I know that’s not realistic but I think Dino can get some good players each year.
I liked that Marrone was from NY and had the ties. I feel like The NY Post(total rag) and Daily News ran more coverage when Marrone was HC as well and that might help. But I think Dino is building connections

 

[NJCuse97]

Here is another way to look at it. There are 163 players in the NFL who are from NY, PA, NJ, and New England. How many of them went to Syracuse? 4. That's totally unacceptable.

And, to your argument of bigger programs coming into NY to grab top prospects, out of the 35 NY kids in the NFL, only 4 went to top programs, 3 from Penn St. and 1 from Ohio St.

Here are the NFL players from the local FBS programs recruited from NY, PA, NJ, and New England:

Penn St. 23
Temple 20
Rutgers 14
Pitt 13
BC 9
UConn 8
Syracuse 4
Buffalo 2
UMass 1

Don't you think Syracuse should produce more than 4 NFL players from the recruiting backyard? This has to be fixed. Temple (TEMPLE!) is doing a far better job of finding recruits in NJ than Syracuse. Unacceptable.

So it’s no longer NY, now it’s the entire northeastern US? And at that, it is still only 10% of all players in the NFL?
Temple and PSU and even Rutgers are doing it with NJ and PA kids.

In general, none of those programs outside of PSU are killing it, and the ones that are better are not much better in the area than us so why use them as the model? We have 4 and BC has 8? That’s 1/4 of a percent difference.

The real issue is that we have what, 6 total from anywhere? And two of them are punters. And one was a transfer, so only one was recruited by Dino. We need more NFL talent. Period. NY doesn’t produce it in quantity. The entire Northeast doesn’t either according to your numbers. Work ethic isn’t a regional thing. I don’t think we aren’t successful because we don’t recruit NY enough.

 

[Millhouse]

I know nothing here, kids sports I watch are nine year olds who are trying terrible. (My son is good at everything simply because he actually tries and he watches games and has the slightest idea of what actual good players do . Unfortunately genes eventually matter, sucks for you, kid)

There are lots of suburban pay to play programs in Rochester to make decent kids pretty good (baseball, lax, soccer). But I don't think any of these kids are high level college football athletes. I don't know how poorer kids in other states develop so much better than here.

I am skeptical of the athleticism of lacrosse guys. I don't see that many that look like d1 football players.

The guys who are big and fast enough, I don't know if they even exist and if so what they're playing. Its baffling.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

I know nothing here, kids sports I watch are nine year olds who are trying terrible. (My son is good at everything simply because he actually tries and he watches games and has the slightest idea of what actual good players do . Unfortunately genes eventually matter, sucks for you, kid)

There are lots of suburban pay to play programs in Rochester to make decent kids pretty good (baseball, lax, soccer). But I don't think any of these kids are high level college football athletes. I don't know how poorer kids in other states develop so much better than here.

I am skeptical of the athleticism of lacrosse guys. I don't see that many that look like d1 football players.

The guys who are big and fast enough, I don't know if they even exist and if so what they're playing. Its baffling.

Building off you're last paragraph, in coaching travel basketball in NY i see alot of athletic kids with size that would have a much better opportunity at the college level in football versus basketball but there isn't a huge infrastructure for football at the juvenile levels to promote the sport.

Year round is easy to find for hoops, baseball, lax and soccer.

 

[JimBoston]

So it’s no longer NY, now it’s the entire northeastern US? And at that, it is still only 10% of all players in the NFL?
Temple and PSU and even Rutgers are doing it with NJ and PA kids.

In general, none of those programs outside of PSU are killing it, and the ones that are better are not much better in the area than us so why use them as the model? We have 4 and BC has 8? That’s 1/4 of a percent difference.

The real issue is that we have what, 6 total from anywhere? And two of them are punters. And one was a transfer, so only one was recruited by Dino. We need more NFL talent. Period. NY doesn’t produce it in quantity. The entire Northeast doesn’t either according to your numbers. Work ethic isn’t a regional thing. I don’t think we aren’t successful because we don’t recruit NY enough.

I put in the whole Northeast because Syracuse is not recruiting well in NY or the neighboring states and that is where, traditionally, Syracuse recruited. I believe the core of the team should be from the Northeast, including Maryland/DC, as well as speed from FL and GA. I just don't understand how some people think 2 (including Chandler Jones) out of the 35 players from NY that are in the NFL played at Syracuse. That is a major fail.

Look at these numbers. NFL players from NY based on first year in NFL:

2019: 6
2018: 6
2017: 5
2016: 8
2015: 6
2014: 14

If Syracuse got half of those players, they would have about 12 players on the roster in any given year that are from NY that will play in the NFL.

Here's more math. The Northeast has 7% of FBS football schools and produces 10% of the NFL players. That is a favorable number.

As for Temple, over the past few years, especially under Matt Rhule, they brought in mid tier NJ talent and developed them. Over the past 6 years, they are 49-30 with three head coaches. The NJ players are there for Syracuse, but it has not been a recruiting focus.

 

[money3189]

I put in the whole Northeast because Syracuse is not recruiting well in NY or the neighboring states and that is where, traditionally, Syracuse recruited. I believe the core of the team should be from the Northeast, including Maryland/DC, as well as speed from FL and GA. I just don't understand how some people think 2 (including Chandler Jones) out of the 35 players from NY that are in the NFL played at Syracuse. That is a major fail.

Look at these numbers. NFL players from NY based on first year in NFL:

2019: 6
2018: 6
2017: 5
2016: 8
2015: 6
2014: 14

If Syracuse got half of those players, they would have about 12 players on the roster in any given year that are from NY that will play in the NFL.

Here's more math. The Northeast has 7% of FBS football schools and produces 10% of the NFL players. That is a favorable number.

As for Temple, over the past few years, especially under Matt Rhule, they brought in mid tier NJ talent and developed them. Over the past 6 years, they are 49-30 with three head coaches. The NJ players are there for Syracuse, but it has not been a recruiting focus.

Wait how do you know which kids are gonna turn out to be NFL players? You are pulling a few needles from a haystack. I will bet that most of the guys in the NFL from the region werent all that highly regarded. Development is the key component. Chandler was a 2 star. Unfortunately we have recruited many 2 and 3 stars. There are teams like Pitt Penn st Maryland Rutgers Temple are grabbing northeast kids They are not going to all go to SU no matter how hard we recruit them. Whether they are 4/5 star studs or 2/3 star developmental plays, some pan out, some don't, some exceeds expectations. Too many factors that go into players making the NFL. This issue is we can't load half of our roster up with 2/3 star players from the region and hope we struck gold. Then you end up with a uncompetitive team with those players. Then the top Northeast players will really stay away and give us no consideration. Bottom line, get the best players you can get in any region. It gives you the best chance to strike gold.

 

[NJCuse97]

I put in the whole Northeast because Syracuse is not recruiting well in NY or the neighboring states and that is where, traditionally, Syracuse recruited. I believe the core of the team should be from the Northeast, including Maryland/DC, as well as speed from FL and GA. I just don't understand how some people think 2 (including Chandler Jones) out of the 35 players from NY that are in the NFL played at Syracuse. That is a major fail.

Look at these numbers. NFL players from NY based on first year in NFL:

2019: 6
2018: 6
2017: 5
2016: 8
2015: 6
2014: 14

If Syracuse got half of those players, they would have about 12 players on the roster in any given year that are from NY that will play in the NFL.

Here's more math. The Northeast has 7% of FBS football schools and produces 10% of the NFL players. That is a favorable number.

As for Temple, over the past few years, especially under Matt Rhule, they brought in mid tier NJ talent and developed them. Over the past 6 years, they are 49-30 with three head coaches. The NJ players are there for Syracuse, but it has not been a recruiting focus.

There is some skewed statistics. The fact that the 7% of FBS schools produce 10% of the NFL players doesn't take PSU into appropriate account and makes no qualification about how many of that 10% are from Florida, Texas, of California for example.

Some of it is fair, but you just enlarged the recruiting range again now to include the DMV. The OP is about Dino and NY. By your numbers, there are about 7 per year (7.5) in the NFL from NY each of the last 6 years. NFL level players will pretty typically draw more attention than the average diamond in the rough. That means we are competing with a lot more schools for them (Curtis Samuel, Ishaq Williams, Ebenezer Ogundeko, for examples) and the ones from other states get the same attention from the factories (Michigan had or has about 12 NJ kids on its roster, one that included Rashan Gary and Jabrill Peppers recently). I don't see any way SU takes 3 of 6 NFL level players (50%) that the state of NY manages to produce without recruiting about 20 a year and hoping to develop them. That is not a good way to be competitive in the ACC.

Twenty years ago, Minkah Fitzpatrick might have gone to SU, but now he goes to Alabama. Ever since P was fired and we lost Ray Rice really it has been the case, but more importantly, NY isn't producing the same talent. Best players from NY in recent history are Gronk, Saquon Barkley and the McCourty twins.

 

[JimBoston]

There is some skewed statistics. The fact that the 7% of FBS schools produce 10% of the NFL players doesn't take PSU into appropriate account and makes no qualification about how many of that 10% are from Florida, Texas, of California for example.

Some of it is fair, but you just enlarged the recruiting range again now to include the DMV. The OP is about Dino and NY. By your numbers, there are about 7 per year (7.5) in the NFL from NY each of the last 6 years. NFL level players will pretty typically draw more attention than the average diamond in the rough. That means we are competing with a lot more schools for them (Curtis Samuel, Ishaq Williams, Ebenezer Ogundeko, for examples) and the ones from other states get the same attention from the factories (Michigan had or has about 12 NJ kids on its roster, one that included Rashan Gary and Jabrill Peppers recently). I don't see any way SU takes 3 of 6 NFL level players (50%) that the state of NY manages to produce without recruiting about 20 a year and hoping to develop them. That is not a good way to be competitive in the ACC.

Twenty years ago, Minkah Fitzpatrick might have gone to SU, but now he goes to Alabama. Ever since P was fired and we lost Ray Rice really it has been the case, but more importantly, NY isn't producing the same talent. Best players from NY in recent history are Gronk, Saquon Barkley and the McCourty twins.

I don’t understand how people are missing the recruiting failures. Syracuse got 11 out of the top 360 players in the Northeast over a 4 year period. How can anyone argue that number is OK? If I remember correctly, all were three stars or better. Syracuse has to triple that number of top Northeast recruits. There are better odds of top kids from the Northeast to come to Syracuse than top kids from Florida or Texas. Based upon on field performance, it’s pretty clear that the recruiting strategy in recent years hasn’t worked.

 

[JimBoston]

2020 top 10 from NY and where they went to school:
1. Purdue
2. Pitt
3. Michigan
4. Northwestern
5. Toledo
6. Syracuse
7. Penn St.
8. Virginia
9. BC
10. BC

So, 2 went to top schools 6 went to peer schools, 1 went G5, and 1 went to Syracuse.

 

[money3189]

I don’t understand how people are missing the recruiting failures. Syracuse got 11 out of the top 360 players in the Northeast over a 4 year period. How can anyone argue that number is OK? If I remember correctly, all were three stars or better. Syracuse has to triple that number of top Northeast recruits. There are better odds of top kids from the Northeast to come to Syracuse than top kids from Florida or Texas. Based upon on field performance, it’s pretty clear that the recruiting strategy in recent years hasn’t worked.

Now you going on a different path. Are you now focusing on recruiting ratings and offers? Before it was about players that made the NFL. We all know the recruiting failures. Thqt topic has been dissected inside and out on this forum the last 10 years. We can't break it down no further that we can lol. This is like the 50th thread on NYS recruiting. Every SU coaching staff in the last 20 years have recruited top prospects in the Northeast hard. Its not a coincidence that none of them consistently got the top guys. We are not getting the top rated kids from NY until we win consistently. Btw Florida's 100th best prospect would be a top 5 kid in NYS.