Dion to Minnesota?

[Alsacs]

If Minnesota actually declined that offer their new GM is horrible and no better than Khan. Kevin Love isn't going to stay their and Thompson, Waiters, and Noel/Oladipo and they have the 9th pick that offer is the best offer he will ever get. Love is an All-NBA 2nd team at MAX IMO he is great and a top 10-15 player, but he isn't going to waste away in Minnesota.

 

[reedny]

I can't understand why the Cavs would offer this. Their problems havn't been in the backcourt.

 

[Alsacs]

Cause Kevin Love is awesome?

Dion was fine last year, but I think people here are overrating him

Love is a top 10-15 player, but I don't see him worth more than Waiters, Thompson, AND the first pick in this draft. I doubt Cleveland would do this deal without an extension from Love. I like Love, but if Minnesota turned down that offer they either think Love is a lock to stay or want 1 playoff run with him.

 

[Knicks411]

Love is a top 10-15 player, but I don't see him worth more than Waiters, Thompson, AND the first pick in this draft. I doubt Cleveland would do this deal without an extension from Love. I like Love, but if Minnesota turned down that offer they either think Love is a lock to stay or want 1 playoff run with him.

I guess I just don't think as much of the other guys as you do. It's the #1 pick in a weak draft. Dion and Thompson look ok to me. Love is an all-star. I think Dion and Thompson can for sure be starters in the leeague, but I doubt either ends up an Olympian. (Well Thompson might, cause he's Canadian, but you knwo what I mean)

 

[moqui]

I guess I just don't think as much of the other guys as you do. It's the #1 pick in a weak draft. Dion and Thompson look ok to me. Love is an all-star. I think Dion and Thompson can for sure be starters in the leeague, but I doubt either ends up an Olympian. (Well Thompson might, cause he's Canadian, but you knwo what I mean)

I agree with you - those diminishing Love have weird standards, it seems to me. He is the ideal stretch 4 - can lead the league in rebounding while shooting a high percentage from three and still drawing a lot of fouls (which are the two most efficient ways to score). He would certainly be a top ten selection in an all-league draft; maybe even top 5.

Here is my fantasy trade scenario: Blake Griffin and Eric Bledsoe for Love. Not sure the salaries match up, might have to throw in a spare body on one side or the other, but I think that trade works for both teams (even if the TWolves don't think EB and RR can play together, he is a terrific asset to spin in a second trade).

 

[Alsacs]

I guess I just don't think as much of the other guys as you do. It's the #1 pick in a weak draft. Dion and Thompson look ok to me. Love is an all-star. I think Dion and Thompson can for sure be starters in the leeague, but I doubt either ends up an Olympian. (Well Thompson might, cause he's Canadian, but you knwo what I mean)

I get your point, but I was factoring in contracts, and value. Dion Waiters is at worst a good bench player who can lead your 2nd team offense, and Tristan Thompson is a solid player even if he isn't an all-star. The first pick could be Porter, Oladipo, Noel that has value. I see Kevin Love opting out of his deal and becoming a UFA after next year. I don't see him staying in Minnesota and that offer is more value than they will get in a trade during the season or in a sign and trade. Its just I don't see Minnesota competing in the playoffs now. They could sneak into the playoffs next year as I think the Lakers will dip but Houston, Utah, Dallas will be tough contenders to go with San Antonio, OKC, LAC, Memphis, then Denver, Golden State are better and those teams I listed. I would trade Love while they can.

 

[moqui]

I see Kevin Love opting out of his deal and becoming a UFA after next year..

I think that's where you have made your mistake - I don't think Love can opt out until after the 14-15 season; Minny has him for two more full years; they don't need to panic sell right now.

 

[Knicks411]

Moqui is correct, Love has 2 more years in Minny.

Not saying not to trade the guy, but if so, I'd think they can get more

 

[Alsacs]

If its two years I guess Minny could shop him next summer, but I still see him leaving there when he can opt out.

 

[Knicks411]

yeah i definitely think he leaves

 

[Stern]

Why so he can try and be "the savior" again? If he wants to win, and keep winning, he has to go to a built team to continue doing so. If he wants MJs title of greatest player ever, I think he needs 7+ rings, and I don't think he can win at least 3 in Cleveland.

Ten again it only matters what Lebron thinks

Look at the new NBA CBA details. Going to a "built team" is no longer an option. There will be no more "built teams" that are adding players let alone adding a player on Lebrons level. The new CBA after next season prevents that

 

[JrodCuse]

Why do you all hate Lebron in Miami so much? He's not leaving there. He wants to be a dynasty type player and you don't accomplish that by going from team to team every contract. He's playing for one of the best owners, one of the best coaches and the best gm. He's staying in Miami.

 

[Stern]

Why do you all hate Lebron in Miami so much? He's not leaving there. He wants to be a dynasty type player and you don't accomplish that by going from team to team every contract. He's playing for one of the best owners, one of the best coaches and the best gm. He's staying in Miami.

You don't understand the NEW NBA CBA agreement that goes into place after next season. That team is getting split up the rules won't allow it to stay as is.

 

[Knicks411]

You don't understand the NEW NBA CBA agreement that goes into place after next season. That team is getting split up the rules won't allow it to stay as is.

What rules? Just the repeater tax you mean?

 

[baggerbob]

Wade is injury prone and an old 31, so a young nucleus in Cleveland is a much better option for LeBron to win championships.

 

[Stern]

What rules? Just the repeater tax you mean?

That jumps about 10 fold than what it currently is now. They will have to pay $150 mill for just a 12 players on their team. An organization like Miami can't afford that. They would be operating in the RED forever and they aren't a rich organization that can do that for very long. NOT TO MENTION, if the league revenues increase in the next year or two the penalty they pay becomes even bigger!!

The team is going to be split up. That isn't up for debate. It WILL happen!

 

[Stern]

Wade is injury prone and an old 31, so a young nucleus in Cleveland is a much better option for LeBron to win championships.

Exactly!!!

 

[Knicks411]

That jumps about 10 fold than what it currently is now. They will have to pay $150 mill for just a 12 players on their team. An organization like Miami can't afford that. They would be operating in the RED forever and they aren't a rich organization that can do that for very long. NOT TO MENTION, if the league revenues increase in the next year or two the penalty they pay becomes even bigger!!

The team is going to be split up. That isn't up for debate. It WILL happen!

Repeater tax doesn't come into play until the 2014-15 season, but there is an incremental rate. Miami had a payroll of about $85 million last year; the tax was at $70 million. If they had the same payroll this year, with the same tax level, they'd be paying about $28 million in tax, for a payroll of about $113 million.

2015-2016 is where it will get really sticky, Miami will be a repeater, unless they get under the tax. If they were $15 million over the tax, the tax bill would jump to $42 million.

$150 million seems a little high, they would have to run a massive payroll. All of the big 3 guys have opt outs for next year; will be interesting to see what happens with that. Lebron is obviously going to opt out and get a new max deal. Curious about Wade and Bosh.

 

[Knicks411]

NOT TO MENTION, if the league revenues increase in the next year or two the penalty they pay becomes even bigger!!

How do you figure? If revenues go up, doesn't that mean the salary cap and luxury tax thresholds go up, which means they are over the tax by less?

Also, Mickey Arison, who owns the Heat, has a net worth of $5.7 billion. So if his luxury tax bill goes up from $15 million to something closer to $40 million, he'd be able to cover it. Which isn't to say he will, I don't know what's gonna happen.

 

[Stern]

How do you figure? If revenues go up, doesn't that mean the salary cap and luxury tax thresholds go up, which means they are over the tax by less?

Also, Mickey Arison, who owns the Heat, has a net worth of $5.7 billion. So if his luxury tax bill goes up from $15 million to something closer to $40 million, he'd be able to cover it. Which isn't to say he will, I don't know what's gonna happen.

Owners don't use their personal wealth to finance these teams. So I don't care how much Mickey Arison is worth, he isn't dipping into it. He uses the operating expense and the revenue created by the franchise. Owners and billionaires stay rich because they don't dip into their personal wealth with these sports teams.

You don't understand how this issue works. Here is a little help to read up on it..

At the conclusion of 2014-15, the repeater tax will make its dreaded debut by punishing teams that have paid a luxury tax for four consecutive seasons. Miami is on a path to be hit with an enormous penalty in the summer of 2015.

As a repeat taxpayer, the Heat will be facing the highest incremental tax rates in NBA history. If, for example, the luxury-tax threshold is established at $75 million -- a highly optimistic gain of roughly $5 million from this season -- the Heat could be faced with a tax bill approaching $48 million. In total, they would be paying $141.3 million for 12 players.

"They're going to have to break up their team,'' predicted a rival general manager who has done the math.


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/ian_thomsen/12/06/sixth-man-nba-cba-nicolas-batum/index.html#ixzz2XhfNrhCj

 

[Knicks411]

You don't understand how this issue works. Here is a little help to read up on it..

At the conclusion of 2014-15, the repeater tax will make its dreaded debut by punishing teams that have paid a luxury tax for four consecutive seasons. Miami is on a path to be hit with an enormous penalty in the summer of 2015.

As a repeat taxpayer, the Heat will be facing the highest incremental tax rates in NBA history. If, for example, the luxury-tax threshold is established at $75 million -- a highly optimistic gain of roughly $5 million from this season -- the Heat could be faced with a tax bill approaching $48 million. In total, they would be paying $141.3 million for 12 players.

"They're going to have to break up their team,'' predicted a rival general manager who has done the math.

I understand exactly how it works. I've looked at the breakdowns. I did screw it up a little bit; in 2015, if they are $15 million over the tax, they will be hit with the repeater payment, which would be about $42 million.

Miami's team salary was about $82 million this year, in order for a $48 million tax bill to get them to $141.3 million , they would need to add about $10 million to their payroll. They might be forced into that with extensions for James/Wade/Bosh, or maybe not.

For the 2015 season, they technically don't have anyone under contract, since they have the player options for the big 3, plus Miller and Haslem. For the moment, assume all 5 opt in. That's about $70 million. In order to get to the roughly $93 million SI is giving them in the story above, they would need to add an additional $23 million in salary, which seems aggressive. (Also don't forget they have the amnesty in their back pocket, which they can use on Miller if they wanted to)

If they kept their 2015 payroll at $85 million, and the tax moved to $75 million, then their tax bill would be about $25 million, for a total of $110 million. If the tax stayed at $70 million, the tax would be about $40 million, which gets you to $125 million. I think the $150 million figure is a vast overbid. They'd need to add significant salary from here, and they have contracts coming off the books.

I don't know what's going to happen. But a $150 million team payroll seems unlikely to me at any point. They'd need to add salary from where they are now.

Also, for the record, I don't think we disagree too much. I think the luxury tax is an obstacle to keeping the team together. I just think it may not quite be as onerous as the SI article implicates.

 

[JrodCuse]

Actually, I'm of the belief that they're going to re-sign for below max contracts. Remember in 2010 none of them signed max contracts (they all took about 10 million below a max contract). Florida has no state tax which increases their salary instantly. Lebron will probably get close to a max contract, and Wade and Bosh will both get much lower contracts. If they want to keep the team together after their contracts expire next season, they'll find a way, especially if they are coming off of a 3-peat.

 

[Stern]

Actually, I'm of the belief that they're going to re-sign for below max contracts. Remember in 2010 none of them signed max contracts (they all took about 10 million below a max contract). Florida has no state tax which increases their salary instantly. Lebron will probably get close to a max contract, and Wade and Bosh will both get much lower contracts. If they want to keep the team together after their contracts expire next season, they'll find a way, especially if they are coming off of a 3-peat.

Wouldn't matter, Heat still have to pay the Tax. And if you think Wade who has been there from Day 1 is taking a big cut in pay you are fooling yourself

 

[Knicks411]

If I had to guess Lebron is going to get a max contract. I mean, he's freaking Lebron. I would not expect Wade to get a max deal from Miami.

 

[JrodCuse]

Wouldn't matter, Heat still have to pay the Tax. And if you think Wade who has been there from Day 1 is taking a big cut in pay you are fooling yourself

Wade's made hundreds of millions of dollars already and he's actually kind of a selfless guy. He has good income from endorsements. I actually do think he'll take a significant paycut to stay with Lebron for a few more years.

 

[Knicks411]

Wade's made hundreds of millions of dollars already and he's actually kind of a selfless guy. He has good income from endorsements. I actually do think he'll take a significant paycut to stay with Lebron for a few more years.

Do you think he opts out though?