Dion Waiters

[ForeverOrange]

So which head problem do we go with, the one who thinks he's good and wants the ball at the expense of others or the one that doesn't know he's good and runs from the ball at crunch time. I really hope BOTH of them have worked on the mental aspect during this offseason and are ready to contribute in a positive way.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

I think the biggest issue is, neither Triche nor Waiters will ever be all conference. We speak of these times when they will be great, but rarely do we see it on the court. I have a little more faith in Waiters, but I think he is a guy who needs volume minutes and volume shots to get rolling. He won't get that on this squad. Triche is what he is...a role/6th man type player who will play more than a role player should. A Jardine/Triche backcourt at crunch time in big games has Final 32 (and no further) written all over it again.

 

[MikeSU02]

Really like what I'm seeing from him this year. He has put himself in a very good position to be the star of this team. Last year he was hampered some by a knee problem. During the regular season it slowed him a bit and he lost some explosion on his first step. This year he has worked hard. He can score from three, midrange and at the basket with power. Look for Dion to have a break out year.

I can't imagine JB changing up his guards from a very successful team, at least not at the start of the year.

One thing I will say, is that Dion flashed some serious signs of chutzpah in the tourney. And we need that swagger in the tourney. I'm not worried about this team during the regular season. We should be a 3 seed at worst. My guess is we end up with a 2 seed.

But we need someone to step up and be a man when the going gets tough and the pressure is on. I think Dion can do well in those moments.

 

[EastCoast2]

This is why I see the guard minutes being very close to 28/28/24

 

[orangehomer]

I dont think its harsh. we have a 1G / 2G who shoots 33% from the three and has a A/T ratio of 1.4. By any metric, standard or subjective test, thats not good (especially when you consider how good we are). he also isnt quick and by the way, can't create. So i truly dont get it. And by the way, I thought GMAC was a very good college guard, not great. But I readily admit that reasonable people can disagree on the magnitude of GMAC's greatness. Just like I think reasonable people can disagree on scoop. I dont think there is a reasonable argument to be made in support of triche (and I can only think of one other player in SU history who can I could say that about). i wish i could make one.

you make an interesting point - that we are so good it simply doesnt matter who is playing that spot. I think that might be true, unless DW has really turned the corner. if he is truly ready to be a superstar then its time to unleash him. a great european soccer coach stated recently that you need to begin every game by stepping on your opponent's throat and digging in your heel. I agree. so lets start the game with our weapons.

um, waiters shot 32.9% from three last year, and had a 1.5 A/T

 

[SoBristol]

Fortunately, this (playing time between Scoop, Brandon, Dion) gets settled on the court, not on any fan board.
I would love to see Brandon elevate his game, be a consistent scorer and play-maker, and deserve to play 25 plus minutes. If he has added quickness, maybe it happens.
But, for sure, Dion will be better than last year. This team may not get much half-court scoring from its inside guys. We are going to need a SG who can make things happen. You can do the math from there . . .

 

[Orangeyes]

[Apologies. My initial post was deleted so I will try to water it down a bit.]

Dion is better than triche. No ball handling guard who has a 1.4 A/T is worth starting unless he scores 20+ a game and looks like allen iverson. triche also cant create for himself or others and he is a below average shooter.

Dion has the potential to be a star. maybe he has an attitude, but as a sophomore that can be fixed. What cant be fixed is a slow junior who cant shoot very well. Thats a fact.

I dont care if its Dion, MCW or Cooney or some walkon from guam, someone should be taking triche's minutes because while he might be the nicest kid in the world, this isnt AYSO and the best kids should play.

The great thing about triche is that he is the sort of kid you need coming off the bench. good defender, great attitude, and more importantly streaky. As a 6th or 7th man, he might be the difference between our winning a NC or not. Very exciting.

You do not know of what you speak. When is the last time you saw Triche? If you are a Syracuse fan you are welcome to have your favorites, but to tear down one of our players to promote another one is uncalled for.

 

[armory]

His 3pt stroke and mid-range game could still use plenty of work, but he excels at enough to make up for it. I agree, the opportunity is there for him to take... now its up to him what to make of it.

 

[dlegend44]

There was a game last year in which Jay Billas (who called several Syracuse games last season) said that Triche is the best player on Syracuse. That is an informed unbiased opinion.

 

[cuseincincy]

What this thread really highlights is the problem with having a roster full of combo guards. None of the top 3 are ideal point guards. Also, none of the top 3 are lights out 3 point shooters. Scoop is the best passer, distributor of the ball so he has taken the PG role for the most part. Dion is imo the best driver of the 3 and has a mid range game that I think we'll see more of. Triche is the streakiest shooter. His supporters only remember the hot streaks, his detractors remember his cold streaks. Averaged out they are all 3 about the same from outside, dare I say that Dion and Scoop have been more consisent? We'll see how MCW's game translates. Cooney is a shooter. All Orangemen fans should just hope that whomever is on the floor, they do what is necessary for SU to be successful and to limit the impact of their own limitations.

 

[SaintTristan]

um, waiters shot 32.9% from three last year, and had a 1.5 A/T

lets keep it honest...his A/T was 1.7

 

[SaintTristan]

You do not know of what you speak. When is the last time you saw Triche? If you are a Syracuse fan you are welcome to have your favorites, but to tear down one of our players to promote another one is uncalled for.

because I dont stalk 18 yr old boys, I have not see triche since last game v. marquette. Where DW was fantastic.

I should have said that I am basing my opinion on last yr's play. if triche is now awesome i stand corrected. I am not tearing anyone down. I am simply stating that one player is better than another and citing stats, in part, to support that.

DW has been ripped on this board for the past 18 mos. Looking forward to you telling people they dont have to rip on him too...

 

[longislandcuse]

Dion Waiters is capable of being our best guard since Flynn. He can break down anyone in college basketball in a one on one setting. Dude is built, big, fast, quick and strong. Bilas calls Triche our best player...love Bilas, no idea how he can say that. I really think Scoop will be VERY good this year and one of Triche or Waiters will absolutely blow up. Both have the skill set, from what I've seen, Waiters has the swagger.

 

[Orangeyes]

"because I dont stalk 18 yr old boys, I have not see triche since last game v. marquette."
You really do try to put a perverted slant to your arguments. Grow up.

I started this thread to compliment a kid on his hard work and dedication and you turned it into a free for all with your agenda to denigrate one of our players.

I used to defend you but now I get why you have been banned so much.

Kindly remove the Saint form your board name.

 

[SaintTristan]

"because I dont stalk 18 yr old boys, I have not see triche since last game v. marquette."
You really do try to put a perverted slant to your arguments. Grow up.

my genuine apologies about the cheap shot; but if you are going to try to dismiss my arguments because i havent see the guys play in the off season this is what you get. And I would add to this that last yr the board's intelligentsia kept telling us how awesome triche was going to be based on...wait for it...his play in the Caribbean during the off season.

Again, if you only care about SU being successful, and you dont care where kids are from, who their parents are, who else went to their high school, whether or not they tweet, who their friends are etc etc etc then DW is clearly the better guard.

 

[Knicks411]

triche was dangerous enough to require defending...waiters missed the rim on half his threes

Despite that they were pretty close to the same % from 3.

Anyway, I think the 33% for Triche is a little misleading. He shot 40% the year prior. Somewhere in the middle is probably more fair.

 

[Orangeyes]

my genuine apologies about the cheap shot; but if you are going to try to dismiss my arguments because i havent see the guys play in the off season this is what you get. And I would add to this that last yr the board's intelligentsia kept telling us how awesome triche was going to be based on...wait for it...his play in the Caribbean during the off season.

Again, if you only care about SU being successful, and you dont care where kids are from, who their parents are, who else went to their high school, whether or not they tweet, who their friends are etc etc etc then DW is clearly the better guard.

You can't go by last year. There have been numerous reports about how many of the players have transformed themselves by losing weight, getting stronger and expanding their games. Much of that was evidenced at Midnight Madness which I attended and you can watch on ESPN3. There is nothing wrong in having favorites but there is no need to knock another player to advance your favorite.

Same as in the business world, outperfom your competiton and you'll go places and leave the competition behind.

 

[SaintTristan]

You can't go by last year. There have been numerous reports about how many of the players have transformed themselves by losing weight, getting stronger and expanding their games. Much of that was evidenced at Midnight Madness which I attended and you can watch on ESPN3. There is nothing wrong in having favorites but there is no need to knock another player to advance your favorite.

Same as in the business world, outperfom your competiton and you'll go places and leave the competition behind.

I watched midnight madness on watchespn and it didnt make much an of an impression on me either way re: any player. it was an exhibition.

I dont have favorites. I have an unyielding desire to win, though, which results in my supporting the players who play well, not the sentimental favs. And as I said, when 95% of this board spends the yr knocking DW I look forward to reading your sage words.

 

[SkanSU]

i remember the seton hall game (at seton hall) from last year where triche scored something like 14 straight in the second half and we went on for the win. if we can see something like from bt for most of the year we will be a-ok

Clappy!! OK?? If BT did what he did in the SH game every game ... we wouldn't need a tourny. Lordy .. that would be a mega-breakout

 

[EastCoast2]

There was a game last year in which Jay Billas (who called several Syracuse games last season) said that Triche is the best player on Syracuse. That is an informed unbiased opinion.

very true

 

[Garbs]

Dion will be the best player on this team by the end of the year. I fully expect him to turn the corner and take more minutes from Scoop and Triche once we hit Big East play. He is a big time, big game, bright lights guy, and IMO he is the one that can make this season special.

There was a game last year in which Jay Billas (who called several Syracuse games last season) said that Triche is the best player on Syracuse. That is an opinion.

FYP

that was also last year, and generally players improve more from frosh to soph than soph to junior, we will see who improves the most, what we all know is that with the top 4 guards the competition will be great in practice every day

 

[Oakland]

I see. So they have virtually identical three point shooting percentages, but triche's misses were of a higher quality than DW misses? And this distinction makes triche an excellent shooter and scoop and DW are horrible shooters? forget the fact that scoop has a better shooting percentage than triche. who cares about that fact. And it doesnt matter that DW and triche are statistically basically the same. Triche is an incredible shooter because his misses are of such high quality. In fact, his misses are so good that they overcome Scoop's made baskets! This all makes perfect sense.

Greatest. Thread. Of. All. Time. If there was a way to bronze a thread, this thread should be bronzed.

Dion was surprising hot from the 3 in the OOC, after that he sucked. In the BEC, BT was 35% and DW was 26%. Neither is known as an outside shooter, but at least BT hit 40% in his frosh year (though, like DW, he was better in the OOC that season). BT clearly has the better stats, but neither is better than average at best. I hope you and your buddy Albany and Eyes are right about DW, and everyone else is right about BT, but my money is on MCW to be the star we want at SG - starting this season.

 

[fanfanclubclub]

I dont think its harsh. we have a 1G / 2G who shoots 33% from the three and has a A/T ratio of 1.4. By any metric, standard or subjective test, thats not good (especially when you consider how good we are).

Dion is better than triche. No ball handling guard who has a 1.4 A/T is worth starting unless he scores 20+ a game and looks like allen iverson.

Dion Waiters: 329% from 3, 1.6 A/TO. Is this the guy you were talking about? Or does Dion get a pass because you think he looks like Allen Iverson?

All advanced metrics of efficiency like Triche, finding a statistical match with Nolan Smith, Eric Bledsoe, and Malcolm Delaney. Most every advanced metric gives Triche a higher grade than Jardine and Dion.

Nolan Smith is actually a pretty good comparison for Triche. Smith bounced around as a "combo guard" his first two seasons, playing out of position to accommodate Duke's lousy point guard (Paulus). So, playing some point as a frosh and then playing 2G as a soph, Smith put up mediocre A/TO ratios his first two seasons (~1.00, worse than Triche). Smith also shot the ball from 3 with only mediocre success his first two seasons (36%, worse than Triche). With Paulus and Scheyer dominating the ball, Smith got frozen out, had low usage rates, and had to endure criticism about his willingness to take over.

In his Junior season, Smith busted out, returning to his natural position at the point. His upperclass seasons, at his natural position, were outstanding. After an MVP type season and a championship, Smith is a pro. I expect the same out of Triche, especially if he gets the chance to return to PG.

[whoops, looks like OrangeHomer beat me to the Dion stats]

 

[fanfanclubclub]

What this thread really highlights is the problem with having a roster full of combo guards. None of the top 3 are ideal point guards. Also, none of the top 3 are lights out 3 point shooters. Scoop is the best passer, distributor of the ball so he has taken the PG role for the most part. Dion is imo the best driver of the 3 and has a mid range game that I think we'll see more of. Triche is the streakiest shooter. His supporters only remember the hot streaks, his detractors remember his cold streaks.

IMO, Triche supporters consider him to be a true point guard, whereas Triche skeptics see him as a streaky shooting combo guard.

 

[SouthCampusHero]

IMO, Triche supporters consider him to be a true point guard, whereas Triche skeptics see him as a streaky shooting combo guard.

Triche skeptics think for some unapparent reason to me that he should be better than he is and shouldnt be granted time to develop. I dont recall DNic being a lights out shooter until his senior year. Why cant he be afforded the time to mature and develop? Triche just needs to build confidence in his abilities; there is no doubt in my mind that he worked hard at his game and improved in many areas (like KJo, he needs a mid-range pull-up jumper so he can avoid charges).